None of these are anywhere near the Stasi
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Ask a Communist
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My Grandparents had it super tough. They worked their way up from a camp to a new capitalist system/country. I'd say capitalism has worked real well because my grandfather and father busted their asses working hard to get where they are.
Hell, I'm a major beneficiary of that. Is it so sinful that I had my education paid for and have no hecs debt?
Hell, I'm a major beneficiary of that. Is it so sinful that I had my education paid for and have no hecs debt?
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In The Coup's communist utopia you can still work your arse off to get ahead.
Just don't get too far ahead.
Social progression drives innovation, too. More efficient farming methods. The drive for universal health care and literacy. The ability of a nation to be as self-sufficient as possible, relying on its own labour pool instead of outsourcing.
I think that competition drives innovation - the better product will usually win out in the sales department - but it is far from the sole factor. Different priorities will create a different catalyst for change and progression. In an egalitarian society, the progression of the community AS A WHOLE will drive innovation. Competition will exist, but as long as society's the winner the negative side of competition will be degraded.
Instead of criticising, you lot might be able to thrash out some ideas for a better future instead. A critical mind is a good thing, but what else can it be used for?
The Coup
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Why are people still pretending capitalism has been the driving factor of innovation in modern society?
Socialism has repeatedly shown itself to be a far more effective method for getting scientific results.
Socialism has repeatedly shown itself to be a far more effective method for getting scientific results.
The Coup
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Its weird to see capitalism defended at all. We've done this dance before, it ends with everything on fire. That's the result of capitalism, we know it because we've seen it over and over again. Wealth gap gets too big, rich get cocky, rich get eaten. Start again.
It's not fun and nobody likes it, but we can't war our way out of it either.
It's not fun and nobody likes it, but we can't war our way out of it either.
The Coup
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The modern day American intelligence apparatus is far more invasive.
Modern day America assassinates its own citizens without trial. Think about that.
It also ethnically cleanses black Americans.
Jails political dissidents without trial.
The only difference between the Stasi and what the Anglo empire does, is the Anglo empire has more methods and more money. Hell at least the Stasi had a reason.
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/12/cia-torture-report-abuses-rectal-feeding
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Examples please.
haden1999
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Pretty much all invention, windows, internet, space exploration is made with public money - the public pay for these inventions therefore the public take on the risk. Once invented (with public money) the private corps come in and privatise the profits.
This happens repeatedly and aspirational capitalists (like the ones in this thread) defend this blatant unfair set up. Never ceases to amaze me.
This happens repeatedly and aspirational capitalists (like the ones in this thread) defend this blatant unfair set up. Never ceases to amaze me.
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Personal computers, electricity, airplanes, cars, telephones, printing press ... the list goes on and on and on ...
When some are advocating for a system that has lead to governments like the USSR, North Korea and China what exactly is there to discuss? How can you criticize the excesses of Capitalism while ignoring the genocide that happened under Stalin?
Want an idea for a better future? Don't follow in the footsteps of the USSR, communist China and North Korea.
Of course you will wash your hands of those governments and complain that it just wasn't implemented correctly. Even though at the start of the communist movements it had all elements (popular support, etc) you said were needed for 'true communism.'
What went wrong? Or do you suffer from the same shortcomings that Marx did? The inability to separate your idealism from reality?
If you think communism is so great and capitalism is such a failure what are you doing living here?
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How are these 'socialist' inventions?
haden1999
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They were invented with public money. NASA is government funded, yeah? Ditto computer technology like windows was invented in institutions like MIT.
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So anything that benefits from government funding is a socialist invention? Righto.
Does that mean anything invented by some bloke in his back shed in a communist country is a capitalist invention?
The fact is its only recently has public funding for research has become a thing. Traditionally research was funded by patrons, the church and rich families.
Organised research was out of reach for the average person (too busy just making ends meet).
Organised research was out of reach for the average person (too busy just making ends meet).
haden1999
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Yes it is. It's invented from public money.
Not sure why this upsets you, it's merely fact.
Moo
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Criticising! ....oh no hang on ...can I get back to you?
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It doesn't upset me, it's just an obscure way of looking at things.
There's a pretty big difference between a communist system and a capitalist system where certain things are govt funded.
Moo
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So the definition of Socialism is now -anything that is publically funded even if it sits in a capitalist system.
So basically you're not arguing revolution, just an expanded public service?
Vlad: So Comrades ....the time has come for us to storm the Parliament...many lives will be lost, however brothers and sisters - when the Red Southern Cross is flying it will be worth it!
Nigel: Actually Vlad, we are forming a subcommittee to apply for expanded public efficiency initiative funding...you really should keep up to date with the internal e-mail and read the minutes of the working group.
Vlad: I'm so not attending anymore meetings and you cant borrow my AK-47 next week
Nigel: You dont want me to fill in a MR-70 now do you Vlad?
Vlad: Nyet
haden1999
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It's not obscure at all. You're just confused.
You guys keep going on about capitalism being responsbile for innovation and creation when the fact is public money is responsible for innovation and creation. The only thing capitalism has to do with anything is when it swoons in to privatise the profits of these publicly funded inventions.
haden1999
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No (*******), i'm challenging the notion that capitalism is responsible for innovation and creation when it's clearly NOT!!!!!
What would be great is if the group that pay for, and wear the risk of these inventions, were the beneficaries of the profits.... Call that system whatever you like.
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