Win Prizes Ask an Atheist II

[Gethelred]

Welcome to the Ask an Atheist thread II.

Previous part:

Win Prizes - Ask an Atheist - Shoe's on the other foot now!

Alright, we're going to have a change of tack. As I'm sure you can see, the thread title has been changed to Ask an Atheist. People who have a question to ask of the atheists who populate this thread - more than the christians do - should feel free to ask questions of them. If you've still got...

www.bigfooty.com

Standard board rules apply.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

Your memory will be gone in a blink.

All those moments will be lost like tears in the rain...

 

[GrayRanga]

There could have been a great mutation that let us see light in the ultraviolet and infrared spectrums. It could have ended up being a disadvantage, or linked to a mutation that lead to still birth.

It's not just random mutation - the environment filters for the best fit.

There could have been a great mutation that let us see light in the ultraviolet and infrared spectrums which would mean we would never experience "darkness"

Great mutation. but they all suicided after a few years of chronic insomnia or the sleep deprived parents ...

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

I notice you haven't addressed what I said. Saying that we've landed here via random mutations is highly improbable is underselling it. I've never been sold on it because it's all a bit shit happens.

Could be true though. I don't know.

There could have been a great mutation that let us see light in the ultraviolet and infrared spectrums. It could have ended up being a disadvantage, or linked to a mutation that lead to still birth.

It's not just random mutation - the environment filters for the best fit.

The 'founder effect' is interesting;

Founder Effect - Definition and Examples | Biology Dictionary

The founder effect is a phenomena that occurs when a small group of individuals becomes isolated from a larger population. Regardless of what the original population looked like, the new population will resemble only the individuals that founded the smaller, distinct population.

biologydictionary.net

Last Updated: April 28, 2017

The founder effect is a phenomena that occurs when a small group of individuals becomes isolated from a larger population. Regardless of what the original population looked like, the new population will resemble only the individuals that founded the smaller, distinct population. The founder effect is due to the randomness that accompanies selecting a small group from a larger population. The smaller the population, the higher the chance that the small population does not represent the larger population. See the graphic below. If the few organisms that migrate or get separated from the parent population do not carry the same frequency of alleles as the main population, the resulting founder effect will cause the population that separated to become genetically distinct from the original population. This may lead to a new subspecies of organisms, or even entirely new species given enough time.

The founder effect can take place due to many different circumstances. The founder effect can be due to geographic isolation, when a small population of individuals migrates to a new area. In this case, the distance or obstacles between the two populations make interbreeding impossible, and the new populations become genetically distinct over time. In another scenario, a mutation may cause a population of organisms to become reproductively isolated from the parent foundation. Without the ability to interbreed with the larger population, the small population becomes distinct. If successful it will grow into a new species. Mutations and random allele changes in small populations are collectively known as genetic drift, and the founder effect is a piece of genetic drift...

 

[Ghost Patrol]

The new guy at work is from the sub-continent. He quietly asked me about Halloween, whats it all about. Wondered why Kevin said he doesn't celebrate it.

I told him it was when Jesus was circumcised.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

The new guy at work is from the sub-continent. He quietly asked me about Halloween, whats it all about. Wondered why Kevin said he doesn't celebrate it.

I told him it was when Jesus was circumcised.

I wonder if Joseph and Mary were Orthodox?

https://www.timesofisrael.com/nyc-orthodox-jews-clash-over-oral-circumcision-rite/

22 February 2015

NEW YORK (AP) — With a swift swipe of his scalpel, Rabbi A. Romi Cohn circumcises the baby boy, then leans down and sucks the blood from the wound as prayers in Hebrew fill the Brooklyn synagogue.

The Orthodox Jewish tradition known as oral suction circumcision reaches back to biblical times but it has created a modern-day dilemma for New York City health officials, who have linked it to 17 cases of infant herpes since 2000. Two infants died and two others suffered brain damage.

Mayor Bill de Blasio’s administration, which came into power a year ago with a promise to reconsider an existing regulation on the ritual, is now negotiating with a group of rabbis over how to protect children’s health while still preserving religious freedom.

“The talks are ongoing but I cannot go into particulars,” said Avi Fink, the mayor’s deputy director of intergovernmental affairs who has been leading the talks. “Our goal is to achieve awareness of the risks.”

Such oral suction circumcisions are relatively rare, even in New York City, which is home to more than a million Jews — the largest Jewish population outside Israel. City health officials estimate more than 3,000 babies are circumcised each year using the oral suction method — formally called metzitzah b’peh in Hebrew.

A 2012 report by the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention advised against the practice, saying it increases the risk of herpes infection in baby boys by 3.4 times that of other male newborns...

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

I wonder if Joseph and Mary were Orthodox?

Bloody hell.

But you can’t ridicule it, because it’s their Belief.

 

[GrayRanga]

I wonder if Joseph and Mary were Orthodox?

Of course they were.

Christ was a good Jewish boy and would have been circumcised in accordance with Jewish Law (Genesis 17:10–14, Leviticus 12:3) and definately would have been as part of the prophecy of the coming Messiah.

Christ himself stated in Matthew 5:17-20 " “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18 “For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished."

By inference, he was compliant the the Law

Of course, it was Paul of Tarsus with his love of Angels on Horseback and with an influencer's aim to broaden the marketing appeal of a small niche belief system who wrote a number of letters to the emerging market.

In Romans 8:3 Paul wrote; "For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh."

An interesting philosophical and theological twist, basically as Christ was the fulfillment of the Law, a personal belief in Christ was also fulfullment of the Law on a personal level.

An interesting thing to discuss over Christmas Lunch as you suck the pork crackling and chuck some more prawns on the grill

 

[travelli]

I know this is an athiests thread, but : are all religions equal? Pope Francis created a stir with some off-the-cuff comments to an interreligious group of young people in Singapore, during his recent trip to Asia. “All religions are paths to God,” he said. “I will use an analogy, they are like different languages that express the divine.”

 

[western royboy]

I know this is an athiests thread, but : are all religions equal? Pope Francis created a stir with some off-the-cuff comments to an interreligious group of young people in Singapore, during his recent trip to Asia. “All religions are paths to God,” he said. “I will use an analogy, they are like different languages that express the divine.”

Yes - all are equal - equally full of the same amount of truth…absolutely none

 

[Total Power]

I know this is an athiests thread, but : are all religions equal? Pope Francis created a stir with some off-the-cuff comments to an interreligious group of young people in Singapore, during his recent trip to Asia. “All religions are paths to God,” he said. “I will use an analogy, they are like different languages that express the divine.”

Extra Ecclesium Nulla Sallus

 

[Total Power]

You saying you're an atheist is just as " real ". Very convenient and simple.. No God. End of story. You are free to do what you want. But your questions will never be answered by science.

All DNA and RNA bases have now been discovered in meteorites

Meteorites hold all five DNA and RNA bases, hinting that life's ingredients may come from space!

digitimed.com

"We are all star dust" Carl Sagan, how right he was!

AND, the more testimonies I hear about people who discover God and Christianity, the more it confirms the reality of these conversions for all of us. So, you are incorrect, IT IS real for very many people.

So what? People believe in all kinds of weird stuff. 3 billion people believe in ghosts. 3 million people in the US alone have seen UFOs (apparently). I would rather have questions that cannot be answered that answers that cannot be questioned. DNA/RNA etc are not miracles, they came from space, no one made it like you guys believe. We now have evidence.

No amount of feel good stories will disprove this fact. But as they if it makes you sleep better at night so be it.

 

[Total Power]

You also can NOT disprove God. The fact that CS Lewis was, like Paul, an atheist, does give us the notion that there is hope for all thinking, respectful atheists. Just because "science based", simplistic and humanistic minds can not accept the possibility of God, the fact that it is real for many people, that peoples lives have been permanently and dramatically changed has to be respected. The lives of the apostles were changed radically. You choose to dismiss, deny, or ignore that, but it is what set up Christianity.

CS fails to recognise that compassion and empathy are the backbone of any ‘universal morality’ - not some god. As for a system that created it, it’s evolution that favored compassion and morality in our species - our ancestors who were more compassionate and empathetic likely helped each other more => better survival => more opportunities to procreate, better survival of their kids’ kids.

The same reason you (and most other Christians) do not take certain verses literally (or figurately) cause it might have been true at that time but now it's plain absurd, as our social norms have changed. Slavery is inhumane, misogyny is unacceptable, atheists are not really evil, masturbation is not a sin etc etc. Some 2,000 years ago 99% of them would have agreed with these but now how many? Morality is not universal.

This is why CS said If jesus claims he was the son of God, he either is or a liar. Whoa slow down professor, why two choices when you arrived at your opinion through Pascals Wager basically?

 

[sdfc]

Oh boy, you’re argument from ignorance and personal incredulity is stunning mate!

What I am saying is it is such a low probability event that i find it hard to believe.

 

[sdfc]

Lol, we don’t “believe” in anything, we have knowledge and understanding, where we don’t, we rely upon those that do!
Don’t worry, you’ll most likely never be relied upon!

Atheists reject the existence of gods/deities. You don't have complete knowledge of the evolutionary process. You believe in a theory with a shitload of holes because it accords with your belief that there is no god.

That gets us to the question of what is the god you don't believe in. Is it an old man in the sky?

 

[sdfc]

There could have been a great mutation that let us see light in the ultraviolet and infrared spectrums. It could have ended up being a disadvantage, or linked to a mutation that lead to still birth.

It's not just random mutation - the environment filters for the best fit.

This is peppered moth stuff. It goes nowhere near explaining how we and all the other species ended up here via a huge number of highly unlikely rearrangements of amino acids.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Of course they were.

Christ was a good Jewish boy and would have been circumcised in accordance with Jewish Law (Genesis 17:10–14, Leviticus 12:3) and definately would have been as part of the prophecy of the coming Messiah.

Christ himself stated in Matthew 5:17-20 " “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18 “For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished."

By inference, he was compliant the the Law

Of course, it was Paul of Tarsus with his love of Angels on Horseback and with an influencer's aim to broaden the marketing appeal of a small niche belief system who wrote a number of letters to the emerging market.

In Romans 8:3 Paul wrote; "For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh."

An interesting philosophical and theological twist, basically as Christ was the fulfillment of the Law, a personal belief in Christ was also fulfullment of the Law on a personal level.

An interesting thing to discuss over Christmas Lunch as you suck the pork crackling and chuck some more prawns on the grill

I just have to say this is all constructed on a very generous (and convenient) definition of the word “law”.

 

[carltonchelsea]

Atheists reject the existence of gods/deities. You don't have complete knowledge of the evolutionary process. You believe in a theory with a shitload of holes because it accords with your belief that there is no god.

That gets us to the question of what is the god you don't believe in. Is it an old man in the sky?

Ahahaha good one preacher boi, I needed a good larf at your expense!

 

[carltonchelsea]

What I am saying is it is such a low probability event that i find it hard to believe.

Ahahahahahahaha!
Ahhhh men!!!

 

[carltonchelsea]

This is peppered moth stuff. It goes nowhere near explaining how we and all the other species ended up here via a huge number of highly unlikely rearrangements of amino acids.

Again with the argument from personal incredulity, awesome stuff!

 

[Roylion]

What I am saying is it is such a low probability event that i find it hard to believe.

We've gone though this all before with the scientific theory of evolution and natural selection. Evolution isn't predictable, and randomness is key in determining how things change. But that's not the same as saying life evolves by chance. That's because while the cause of evolution is random (mutations in our genes) the processes of evolution (natural selection) is not.

Mutations as part of the evolutionary process are "random" in the sense that the sort of mutation that occurs cannot generally be predicted based upon the needs of the organism.

However, this does not imply that all mutations are equally likely to occur or that mutations happen without any physical cause. Indeed, some regions of the genome are more likely to sustain mutations than others, and various physical causes (e.g., radiation) are known to cause particular types of mutations.

Most mutations are "naturally-occurring." For example, when a cell divides, it makes a copy of its DNA — and sometimes the copy is not quite perfect. That small difference from the original DNA sequence is a mutation. Also DNA, including the DNA within sperm and eggs, is easily damaged. And when it is, a cell does its best to put the strand back together perfectly. But sometimes it mistakenly substitutes one genetic letter for another, generating a mutation.

In humans, each offspring has around 70 new mutations.

In any case, natural selection favors mutations that confer a fitness benefit to the individuals that carry them. The process of selection winds up sorting through randomly generated mutations, weeding out some and favoring others.

So, the evolution that occurs through natural selection is not random at all, even though the genetic variation, upon which natural selection acts, is generated by random mutations.

But even so, as was said above, mutations are "random" in the sense that the sort of mutation that occurs cannot generally be predicted based upon the needs of the organism.

There is an enormous amount of supporting evidence that suggests all living organisms derived from a common ancestor long ago. Hence evolution.

DNA for example is very good evidence of evolution.

We know how DNA works, we know the rate DNA mutates.

The closeness of the relations between various life forms on the planet is measured by similar DNA. A complete set of human DNA has a total of 3.3 billion letters. You are different from me because every now and then, you have a different letter from me at a certain spot. So maybe at position 17, 456 and 327, I have an A and you have a G.

A dog’s complete set of DNA is a bit smaller with only 2.8 billion letters. Only 25% of the DNA sequence in the dog genome exactly matches the human sequence. When the tiny changes in the other 75% of the DNA are piled up across 25,000 genes and across trillions of cells in the body, the results are two very different organisms. What this does show is that at sometime in the past every human in the world and every dog in the world had a common ancestor. Common descent.

 

[Roylion]

You believe in a theory with a shitload of holes because it accords with your belief that there is no god.

Evolution has nothing to do as to whether there is a 'god' or not.

Define 'god'.

 

[Boston tiger]

Evolution has nothing to do as to whether there is a 'god' or not.

Define 'god'.

The first cause

 

[Boston tiger]

Noble's analysis suggests that evolution acts on the organism as a whole, with the organism harnessing randomness and variation to create and heal itself—on purpose. In this re-evaluation, Noble believes that purpose, creativity, and innovation are fundamental to evolution. He argues that we experience these processes as drives, but they are not purely subjective. They also progress non-consciously in other parts of our body. These natural processes harness randomness and unpredictability—stochasticity—to survive, make decisions, and thrive. “Stochasticity is the center of creativity in organisms,” says Noble.