Win Prizes Ask an Atheist II

[Gethelred]

Welcome to the Ask an Atheist thread II.

Previous part:

Win Prizes - Ask an Atheist - Shoe's on the other foot now!

Alright, we're going to have a change of tack. As I'm sure you can see, the thread title has been changed to Ask an Atheist. People who have a question to ask of the atheists who populate this thread - more than the christians do - should feel free to ask questions of them. If you've still got...

www.bigfooty.com

Standard board rules apply.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

This is straight from his book. There are so many pearls. This one hit home as much as any of them for me.


I'm sorry it's this time of night where I am as there is much to say, but if you have time, it's not a big read, and I can not do it justice without copying it.

It surprises me that someone so renowned as CS Lewis could be so ignorant of Nietzsche.

 

[Gough]

It surprises me that someone so renowned as CS Lewis could be so ignorant of Nietzsche.

One pill makes you larger and one pill makes you small but the one's that mother gives you don't do anything at all. People look at Keith Richards' continued survival and marvel, Grace Slick is every bit the medical miracle that Keef is, she should not be here.

 

[carltonchelsea]

You are simply wrong, no matter how many times you repeat your mantra. God, the only Creator God, who is called Allah by Muslims, is God. I too know many muslims, and they all say we worship the same God. That IS THE POINT. No other point. God the Creator, well before Jesus was born, is the God that Muslims worship. You can leave aside Jesus and Trinity as Muslims do not accept this. So what . There is one Creator God.
Jesus IS who separates us from the rest as Jesus makes sense, and to our way of assessment, the most logical way to get to God the Father. That muslims do not believe this is fine, nor the Jews. But God is God.

I see what you’re saying and also agree with TP, my only difference is that you and your Muslim buddies are under an illusion, there aren’t any gods, they are imaginary agencies that we have attributed to evolutionary processes.

 

[Vdubs]

Duh captain obviouso, you the one claiming it's the same god and now the backflip. We are not here to discuss what YOU believe to be true.



They cannot accept it cause their religion is clear about it. Jesus is not God, clearly stated in their book in multiple verses in multiple places. You are the one who is in denial. Islam clearly states trinity is bullshit...multiple times and Jesus is just a human being. Quran is not edited like the Bible, Bible has changed over time, Quran hasn't.


I have read all the 3 religions, i am well aware of what these 3 religions say. You are the one blind copy pasting without knowing what he is copy pasting.

Again, let me ask you, how's Allah=Jesus?

According to Islam, Jesus is not God, or Allah.
According to Christianity, the Trinity has God as Father, Son (Jesus), and Holy Spirit.
But from all reading and reports, God is Allah is God.
We include Jesus as you know, for all the reasons, and big difference is Islam doesn't.
But I should not need to go on about the fact that Jesus was sent by God as his human form so that humans could come to God.

 

[Total Power]

According to Islam, Jesus is not God, or Allah.
According to Christianity, the Trinity has God as Father, Son (Jesus), and Holy Spirit.
But from all reading and reports, God is Allah is God.
We include Jesus as you know, for all the reasons, and big difference is Islam doesn't.
But I should not need to go on about the fact that Jesus was sent by God as his human form so that humans could come to God.

Stay on track, without moving the goalposts, the debate is are they the SAME GOD?

God is Krishna, God is Allah, God is YWH, God is Jesus....are they the same God?

Clearly not. I just explained it to you, Allah denies everything Jesus has preached as his core preaching (like Original Sin, Trinity etc). So this cannot be the same God. Either there are a) many gods or b) all man made bullshit. You very well know which is more obvious, but keep denying it.

Why would the same god come back after 700 years and say "i am sorry everything i preached before is bullshit, this is my updated version"?

There's no reason to believe that Jews/Muslims/Hindu's are wrong and you are right. They are as right as you are. There are 6 billion people who don't believe Jesus is God. So don't play the numbers game with me again, it's a hopeless argument.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

God is Krishna, God is Allah, God is YWH, God is Jesus....are they the same God?

Clearly not. I just explained it to you, Allah denies everything Jesus has preached as his core preaching (like Original Sin, Trinity etc). So this cannot be the same God. Either there are a) many gods or b) all man made bullshit. You very well know which is more obvious, but keep denying it.

Why would the same god come back after 700 years and say "i am sorry everything i preached before is bullshit, this is my updated version"?


Clearly you have lost another argument. They are all separate gods.

They are all Loki variants.

 

[Roylion]

But I should not need to go on about the fact that Jesus was sent by God as his human form so that humans could come to God.

That is not a fact. It is an unsubstantiated claim to truth that is not supported by any evidence whatsoever.

 

[peetoo]

That is not a fact. It is an unsubstantiated claim to truth that is not supported by any evidence whatsoever.

There were all sorts of prophets and prophesies around at the time. It was all the rage.

One theory is powerful roman converts to the Christian cult would have de-emphasised all the other stuff making the Jesus story seem more remarkable than it really was. Even then, so much of what we are fed is easily disproven bullshit.

One example. The ‘census’ angle. Why even persist with something so incidental to the ‘story’ when it was poetic licence at best

Quote
However, some scholars believe that Luke's use of the census is in error. There is no evidence that Roman subjects were required to return to their ancestral homes for the census. The Romans wanted to know who was in each household and what they owned, so it's more likely that Luke used the census as a literary device to temporarily bring Joseph and Mary to Bethlehem.

 

[Roylion]

One example. The ‘census’ angle. Why even persist with something so incidental to the ‘story’ when it was poetic licence at best

Quote
However, some scholars believe that Luke's use of the census is in error. There is no evidence that Roman subjects were required to return to their ancestral homes for the census. The Romans wanted to know who was in each household and what they owned, so it's more likely that Luke used the census as a literary device to temporarily bring Joseph and Mary to Bethlehem.

Luke used the census as a literary device to bring Mary and Joseph to Bethlehem of Judea so that Jesus of Nazareth, would be born in Bethlehem, as per the "prophecy". Raymond E. Brown who was Professor of Biblical Studies at the Union Theological Seminary and who wrote possibly the best known critical commentary "The Birth of the Messiah" argues that if the census had really taken place, at the birth of Jesus, the earlier Matthew would have mentioned it as well as Luke.

Three Roman censuses took place in 28 BC, 8 BC, and AD 14, but they appear to not be empire wide and there were questions whether they would have included the territories of Herod the Great, as client kingdoms weren't directly taxed by the Romans. It is possible the one in 8 BC is the one mentioned in the Gospel of Luke. The three censuses are listed in the Acts of Augustus, a list of what Augustus thought were the 35 greatest achievements of his reign. He was so proud of the censuses that he ranked them eighth on the list.

Publius Sulpicius Quirinius was Imperial Legate (Governor) of Syria from AD 6 - 12 and while he did carry out a tax census of the province of Judea in AD 6 (separate to those of Augustus), no Roman census required people to travel from their own homes to those of distant ancestors, as described in the Gospels. The census of Judea in any case, would not have affected Joseph and his family, living in Galilee, which was outside the province/ethnarchy of Judea.

So there are major difficulties in accepting Luke's account of the birth of Jesus. Both the Gospels of Matthew and Luke link the birth of Jesus to the reign of Herod the Great, but the census took place in AD 6, nine-ten years after Herod's death in 4 BC.

 

[Vdubs]

Stay on track, without moving the goalposts, the debate is are they the SAME GOD?

God is Krishna, God is Allah, God is YWH, God is Jesus....are they the same God?

Clearly not. I just explained it to you, Allah denies everything Jesus has preached as his core preaching (like Original Sin, Trinity etc). So this cannot be the same God. Either there are a) many gods or b) all man made bullshit. You very well know which is more obvious, but keep denying it.

Why would the same god come back after 700 years and say "i am sorry everything i preached before is bullshit, this is my updated version"?

There's no reason to believe that Jews/Muslims/Hindu's are wrong and you are right. They are as right as you are. There are 6 billion people who don't believe Jesus is God. So don't play the numbers game with me again, it's a hopeless argument.

I have no problem at all believing God and Allah are the one God.
I have no problem believing Jesus is who He is said to be- The Son Of God- God Himself in Human form when He was here.
It is not an easy faith, and it's risky, but if true, it's more risky for atheists to believe by faith only, what they believe, that there is no God, and they are masters of their own destiny.
And if God is true, my own research, and reading, and education convinces me that Christianity is indeed the best explanation of how we get to be in a relationship with God. That trumps all other faith systems imho.

 

[Total Power]

I have no problem at all believing God and Allah are the one God.
I have no problem believing Jesus is who He is said to be- The Son Of God- God Himself in Human form when He was here.
It is not an easy faith, and it's risky, but if true, it's more risky for atheists to believe by faith only, what they believe, that there is no God, and they are masters of their own destiny.

You clearly avoided the question again. When the core beliefs are vastly different how are they ONE GOD? Every other religion denies Jesus is God, you disagree. Either, they are different gods, or there is no god.

You keep saying there is one god, without providing any evidence for it, of course your religion is right and everyone elses is wrong.

 

[Vdubs]

You clearly avoided the question again. When the core beliefs are vastly different how are they ONE GOD? Every other religion denies Jesus is God, you disagree. Either, they are different gods, or there is no god.

You keep saying there is one god, without providing any evidence for it, of course your religion is right and everyone elses is wrong.

I hadn't finished- not sure if that added comment answers your question.
I can not prove anything.

 

[Total Power]

I hadn't finished- not sure if that added comment answers your question.
I can not prove anything.

I am not asking you for evidence logically, i am saying the RELIGIONS themselves deny Jesus is god. Religions themselves deny the existence of original sin. Religions themselves deny Trinity.

The OT clearly states God will never be seen by men..yet christians have reverse engineered the verses to suit their prophecy narrative.

Christians just want confirmation of their beliefs, that is it.

There's no one god. Either many gods or none.

 

[Boston tiger]

There were all sorts of prophets and prophesies around at the time. It was all the rage.

One theory is powerful roman converts to the Christian cult would have de-emphasised all the other stuff making the Jesus story seem more remarkable than it really was. Even then, so much of what we are fed is easily disproven bullshit.

One example. The ‘census’ angle. Why even persist with something so incidental to the ‘story’ when it was poetic licence at best

Quote
However, some scholars believe that Luke's use of the census is in error. There is no evidence that Roman subjects were required to return to their ancestral homes for the census. The Romans wanted to know who was in each household and what they owned, so it's more likely that Luke used the census as a literary device to temporarily bring Joseph and Mary to Bethlehem.

Historians can make the census work. Just pick your side . A lot to look into. Even the language used.
I always go to … why make up a lie that can be found out. Luke may have been written only 30 years after the death of Jesus.
If Luke wants to lie about Joseph getting to Bethlehem and not be found out why not say he was called by his family etc…nstead of making up a huge event that would have impacted lots of lives.

 

[Vdubs]

I am not asking you for evidence logically, i am saying the RELIGIONS themselves deny Jesus is god. Religions themselves deny the existence of original sin. Religions themselves deny Trinity.

The OT clearly states God will never be seen by men..yet christians have reverse engineered the verses to suit their prophecy narrative.

Christians just want confirmation of their beliefs, that is it.

There's no one god. Either many gods or none.

That's your surmising.
I live my life daily, hourly as if Christianity is exactly what it's purported to be. Illuminating, life changing, and absolutely no regrets.
That your other religions deny Jesus is nothing new- he was denied by Jews in his hometown.
You strongly believe Christianity is not real, so be it, it is based on faith in what you believe. Like us, you can not disprove God or Jesus any more than I can prove it.

 

[Total Power]

That's your surmising.
I live my life daily, hourly as if Christianity is exactly what it's purported to be. Illuminating, life changing, and absolutely no regrets.

Sure those are your personal beliefs, you have the right to it.

That your other religions deny Jesus is nothing new- he was denied by Jews in his hometown.

Relevance? OT was written well before Jesus. And OT is supposed to be Jesus himself.

OR IT ISN'T?

LOL.

Without OT there's no NT.


OT clearly stated what god is like. Christian NT was written for over 1,000 years and has no eyewitness'. You realise this right?

Hinduism and Buddhism was also written hundreds of years before Jesus.

How are they the SAME GOD???

why play stupid again? The catholic church themselves agreed that Bible was written to confirm Christian beliefs, under the order from the Pope in the 500 A.D

Out of all religions, NT is the most on shaky grounds, not that you care but still.

You strongly believe Christianity is not real, so be it, it is based on faith in what you believe. Like us, you can not disprove God or Jesus any more than I can prove it.

Dude, you are one claiming they are all praying to the same god, when i state that they are not, you get your panties in a knot.

I cannot disprove there is no god, but i can disprove the Bible (you can start from Genesis to exodus, to flood to the birth of Jesus even and above all the prophecies etc). You cannot disprove Allah is not real or there aren't many gods either.

No faith needed to call out all the bullshit written in the Bible. From science to morality.

 

[evolved2]

If there is a god, let me die in the next 10 minutes. If not, I'm stronger, better, and more intelligent than god.

The clock is counting down.

 

[Total Power]

Historians can make the census work. Just pick your side . A lot to look into. Even the language used.
I always go to … why make up a lie that can be found out. Luke may have been written only 30 years after the death of Jesus.
If Luke wants to lie about Joseph getting to Bethlehem and not be found out why not say he was called by his family etc…nstead of making up a huge event that would have impacted lots of lives.

The earliest dating for luke is between 80 to 110 AD. Try 50, not 30.

How old was Luke when mary was pregnant?

 

[Total Power]

If there is a god, let me die in the next 10 minutes. If not, I'm stronger, better, and more intelligent than god.

The clock is counting down.

Atheistic nations have the highest life expectancy...while America is still stuck in early 70's.

 

[Total Power]

And if God is true, my own research, and reading, and education convinces me that Christianity is indeed the best explanation of how we get to be in a relationship with God. That trumps all other faith systems imho.

Really? after vast majority of Jesus quotes were plagurised??????? from genesis to global flood to turn the other cheek to love thy neighbour? Why won't you pay the credit to the ORIGINAL author(s)???

Why would you expect any different from a follower of a certain religion? do you expect Muslims to say Islam is not the best explanation? Yet repeatedly you have failed to answer questions here.

Out of the 3 religions as a neutral, Islam is probably the best. No confusing middle man of God sacrificing himself, no indecipherable mess of the trinity, and not being born with sin. Adam sinned and God just forgave him. He knew he'd sin again but whatever, he's God. He can forgive. Makes a lot more sense. No throwing toys out of the cot, no cursing every single being who isn't responsible for the OS.

 

[evolved2]

If there is a god, let me die in the next 10 minutes. If not, I'm stronger, better, and more intelligent than god.

The clock is counting down.

Still alive, so there is no god. End of discussion.

 

[Total Power]

Still alive, so there is no god. End of discussion.

Shut up you sinner, he will see you after you die eventually....a lake of fire awaits you

There's still time, join his fanclub

 

[evolved2]

Shut up you sinner, he will see you after you die eventually....a lake of fire awaits you

There's still time, join his fanclub

Fk. Does god still have boxing day discounts?