Mid East Israel declare war after Hamas attack III

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Oh it won't change anything substantial, that's for sure. But I'd like to believe at least some Israel supporters are capable of feeling shame.

It's possible I'm wrong. Nothing is off the table when it comes to fascism, and that's as true of Israeli fascism as it is of any other variety.

There's an old saying..... if you follow the far left and the far right to their extremities, they meet up and they are indistinguishable. Fascism has become fashionable recently. I see a lot more religious fundamentalism.
 

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Would that this forum could go a month - just a ****ing month - without the Horseshoe ****ing theory raising its ugly, misleading, stupid face.

There's still time for Santa if you've been a good boy this year.

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There's an old saying..... if you follow the far left and the far right to their extremities, they meet up and they are indistinguishable. Fascism has become fashionable recently. I see a lot more religious fundamentalism.
It's nationalism and it's corresponding xenophobia - the glory and pride of one's culture over others - that the "strong" men are all riding: Xi, Putin, Modhi, Netanyahu, Trump. Dutton will run a Howard style campaign and get in.

Libertarianism and Authoritarianism don't meet up. They're opposites. The old left vs right on economics and conservative vs progressive are all opposites too, but they can all be either liberal or authoritarian. As can religious folk.

It only appears to be a circle if you're unable to distinguish between what is desired and how you try to get it.
 
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It's nationalism and it's corresponding xenophobia - the glory and pride of one's culture over others - that the "strong" men are all riding: Xi, Putin, Modhi, Netanyahu, Trump. Dutton will run a Howard style campaign and get in.

Libertarianism and Authoritarianism don't meet up. They're opposites. The old left vs right on economics and conservative vs progressive are all opposites too, but they can all be either liberal or authoritarian. As can religious folk.

It only appears to be a circle if you're unable to distinguish between what is desired and how you try to get it.

well if every extremist heads out the same direction then there's no horseshoe...

far left is libertarianism? obviously the wokes headed out with the other guys...

I heard some expert in the US election say that he was talking to a voter who said that he would vote for Trump and AOC... and it makes sense.
 
well thats a good example of a fascist approach...
... providing an opinion about the pop science equivalent of a political theory is an example of being a fascist?

Do you have a pamphlet or something I might be interested in reading? Because I'd like to wipe my arse with it.
 
... providing an opinion about the pop science equivalent of a political theory is an example of being a fascist?

Do you have a pamphlet or something I might be interested in reading? Because I'd like to wipe my arse with it.

i'll give you a. tip... i'm not a brownlow medallist
 
I just read that skynews babe erin molan got sacked....for being pro-israel or so she says....by sky??? by skynews australia....

so she hops on a plane to israel and does her tour of the hibbutzes that hamas raided.... and she is referred to as a "star" ...its all bizarre. is she going to marry zac efron? or front the new 90210? I'm interested to see if she makes it to fox in the US. Maybe rupert had his eye on his local "news" outlet.

 
coincidently, I got sent a utube with a stephen fry interview and he said the thing that annoys him about lefties is they do it to impress and not to be effective.
I'd ask what political change Stephen Fry has effected. It's easy to take shots at people and harder to actually find what's effective and carry it out when it goes against the interests of the owners of established media.

but point taken. The guy just annoys me with this "influencer attitude" that because he's upset, so should the rest of the world.
Couldn't I make this point about every social or political commentator on every side of the spectrum? They all see things they don't like in society and draw attention to it in order to influence other people to not like those things too. What should he do instead?

Plus he's a card-carrying leftie and I've known a few and my experience is that they're very good talking amongst themselves
You're right. The left do spend a lot of time talking to each other instead of to wider society. This is one reason I don't care for university trots, they do that to death.

But I'd also argue the actual left (as in, not Labor Party hacks) are trying to break out of that. They just rarely have the privilege of a mainstream media platform to be able to do it. They usually only get serious airtime in niche publications like Jacobin that are only read by other leftists, occasionally a feature in The Guardian or Fairfax too, but almost all of mainstream media is set up to parrot centrist or right-wing arguments. Even the Guardian has refused to publish certain pro-Palestine commentators like Susan Abulhawa.
 

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I'd ask what political change Stephen Fry has effected. It's easy to take shots at people and harder to actually find what's effective and carry it out when it goes against the interests of the owners of established media.

He's done a lot more than what I have....but i've never been paid for my opinion.

Now on the wider issue, I just dont like that pomme leftie git (edit that boyish one not fry).... he nauseates me. Evidently he's popular. Thats life.

We have many things in common in our opinions about career lefties. Let us join hands and sing songs around the fire instead of worrying bout their lack of resources.

Actually Fry was lamenting in that interview that the Left in britain held sway around tony blair's time and did nothing with it. I would argue that blair was a fox in woke's clothing but he has a point. Rupert was probably even cuddling with Tony at the time..... but him and clinton sold out the workers in the west and allowed the billionaires to take their industries to china and spark the worker revolt that led to Trump......broad brush but its a hot day here.

The point being that the left is talking to itself now because it was doing it 30 years ago.
 
There's an old saying..... if you follow the far left and the far right to their extremities, they meet up and they are indistinguishable.
I think that only applies to authoritarians in power, not to arguments made online.

Fascism has become fashionable recently. I see a lot more religious fundamentalism.
Fascism can work hand in hand with religious fundamentalism. Fascism always involves an identity that must be restored through domination and subjugation of those outside that identity. Usually this identity is the ethnicity or race, but sometimes it's the nation, or the religion or the sect of a religion. For example, while I'd describe Salafism as a whole as religious fundamentalism, Salafi jihadism takes it to the same level as fascism. The concepts can be effectively fused. And pretty much every major religion has given birth to a form of fascism at some point or another in history.

I think the label of fascism is even more applicable to Israeli Jewish extremism, because it covers all three major categories of fascism I described above (nation, ethnicity, religion). And these extremists have made it clear they're all for ethnic cleansing and genocide in order to get their lebensraum.

I'd argue this is better described as fascism than religious fundamentalism, because many fundamentalist Jews do not agree with the existence of Israel as a Jewish state. They see it as a political rather than a religious project, and one that has misappropriated many Jewish symbols and concepts such as the Star of David or Zionism. Many of these fundamentalists are among Israel's biggest Jewish critics.
 
He's done a lot more than what I have....but i've never been paid for my opinion.
This doesn't answer my question. What change has Fry effected to be able to criticise others for not effecting change?

Now on the wider issue, I just dont like that pomme leftie git (edit that boyish one not fry).... he nauseates me. Evidently he's popular. Thats life.
I'm going to chalk this up to you having a personal problem with him then, rather than an ideological issue.

We have many things in common in our opinions about career lefties. Let us join hands and sing songs around the fire instead of worrying bout their lack of resources.
You can if you want to, but I actually want them to succeed.

Actually Fry was lamenting in that interview that the Left in britain held sway around tony blair's time and did nothing with it. I would argue that blair was a fox in woke's clothing but he has a point. Rupert was probably even cuddling with Tony at the time..... but him and clinton sold out the workers in the west and allowed the billionaires to take their industries to china and spark the worker revolt that led to Trump......broad brush but its a hot day here.
I would agree almost entirely with this. Blair was a neoliberal capitalist through and through, though I don't recall him ever claiming he was committed to social justice. But the movement of factory jobs to China had been underway for over a decade before Blair or Clinton entered the scene. Thatcher and Reagan had already taken out the bath plug, the 90s was just the bath continuing to drain.

In any case, the Labor Party hasn't been leftist for the last 45 years, besides when Foot and Corbyn were in power. If Fry doesn't recognise that, then perhaps his fine education and comfortable financial position has made him out of touch.

The point being that the left is talking to itself now because it was doing it 30 years ago.
Again, not all are. They may be on the downswing at the moment across the Western world, but nothing lasts forever, trends change and reverse in time. A point will come where people in the mould of Bernie Sanders take charge and figure out how to communicate their message better to the working class.
 
This doesn't answer my question. What change has Fry effected to be able to criticise others for not effecting change?


I'm going to chalk this up to you having a personal problem with him then, rather than an ideological issue.


You can if you want to, but I actually want them to succeed.


I would agree almost entirely with this. Blair was a neoliberal capitalist through and through, though I don't recall him ever claiming he was committed to social justice. But the movement of factory jobs to China had been underway for over a decade before Blair or Clinton entered the scene. Thatcher and Reagan had already taken out the bath plug, the 90s was just the bath continuing to drain.

In any case, the Labor Party hasn't been leftist for the last 45 years, besides when Foot and Corbyn were in power. If Fry doesn't recognise that, then perhaps his fine education and comfortable financial position has made him out of touch.


Again, not all are. They may be on the downswing at the moment across the Western world, but nothing lasts forever, trends change and reverse in time. A point will come where people in the mould of Bernie Sanders take charge and figure out how to communicate their message better to the working class.

Have you texted SR. He likes the point by point stuff. You two would get along fine.... He's a big supporter of israel, but he can justify every word. You'll be fascinated.
 
well if every extremist heads out the same direction then there's no horseshoe...

far left is libertarianism? obviously the wokes headed out with the other guys...

I heard some expert in the US election say that he was talking to a voter who said that he would vote for Trump and AOC... and it makes sense.

Just because multiple different groups use a violent Machiavellian approach to achieving their goals doesn't make them or their goals the same. Their goals can be completely opposite. Militant environmental groups don't complete a circle with the third reich, regardless of how militant they are.

Left doesn't equal libertarian. If using the economic definition of left and right the Khmer rouge was as far left as we've seen and as far from libertarian as it comes. Two party politics has made us think of a variety of different concepts as being aligned to whatever the current stances of those parties are - even when they're completely separate concepts.
 
Have you texted SR. He likes the point by point stuff. You two would get along fine.... He's a big supporter of israel, but he can justify every word. You'll be fascinated.
No Mark. I just view yourself, Netanyahu and the extremist Palestinian groups as thinking alike. You all create a single story of the other group and tell that story trying to spread it. Whereas the reality isn't a single story. All these cultures and groups are made up of people with vastly different views. But unfortunately we're in for some shit times because these single stories of evil neighbours recognisable by the different clothes that you like to ridicule are spreading and being spread by people who think like you - who thinks like Bibi.
 
No Mark. I just view yourself, Netanyahu and the extremist Palestinian groups as thinking alike. You all create a single story of the other group and tell that story trying to spread it. Whereas the reality isn't a single story. All these cultures and groups are made up of people with vastly different views. But unfortunately we're in for some shit times because these single stories of evil neighbours recognisable by the different clothes that you like to ridicule are spreading and being spread by people who think like you - who thinks like Bibi.


so it's extremist palestinian groups and just one israeli.....well that solves the problem. Bomb everyone in gaza to rid the world of those groups and put netty in jail and transform gaza into a trump golf course...
 
so it's extremist palestinian groups and just one israeli.....well that solves the problem. Bomb everyone in gaza to rid the world of those groups and put netty in jail and transform gaza into a trump golf course...
I didn't name Anwar or any other Palestinian leader as I don't know much about them. They're not given a voice. It helps the Islamophobic versions of you to spread their shite. So I don't know whether or not the actual leaders think like you and Bibi with their single stories. But little doubt that many who pillaged on Oct 7 think like you and Bibi.
 
of course, we cant name them all. Too many. All the palestinians involved on that day....all the various palestinians assisting hamas during the last decade or so....all the relatives who must have known about what the men were doing....and i kind of believe the teachers and the medical people who probably helped the hamas people recover...

and netty...

that about covers all the guilty...
 
I've got this theory about netty's end game.

If he delivers the promised land, I think the israeli population - well the jewish israelis - will cut him some slack and they might hold a parade down the streets of jerusalem. If he gets a start on a new temple on the mount, he will go down in history...

However, if this drags out and there's no promised land at the end, I think they will cut him loose. Even if he gets a partial genocide successfully done. They might find him guilty of the corruption and put him in jail for a few years. I would be very very very surprised if they ship him overseas to the ICC in any circumstances, because they wouldn't allow gentiles to judge a jew on principle. So i'm predicting that he'll never face an international court, even if he stuffs up the next few months.
 
of course, we cant name them all. Too many. All the palestinians involved on that day....all the various palestinians assisting hamas during the last decade or so....all the relatives who must have known about what the men were doing....and i kind of believe the teachers and the medical people who probably helped the hamas people recover...

and netty...

that about covers all the guilty...
No I can't name most people who demonise entire cultural groups. They're in all cultures. It's this simple, I don't know if Shinwar came from a perspective of demonising all Israelis, so I didn't name him. Im very confident that many who followed him through the fence and started massacring did come from that perspective. Just as I'm confident that Bibi and many Israelis massacring come from the same perspective of demonizing a whole cultural group. Im also very confident that you do too. You've made it very clear - over and over again.
 
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