Win Prizes Ask an Atheist II

[Gethelred]

Welcome to the Ask an Atheist thread II.

Previous part:

Win Prizes - Ask an Atheist - Shoe's on the other foot now!

Alright, we're going to have a change of tack. As I'm sure you can see, the thread title has been changed to Ask an Atheist. People who have a question to ask of the atheists who populate this thread - more than the christians do - should feel free to ask questions of them. If you've still got...

www.bigfooty.com

Standard board rules apply.

 

[peetoo]

Historians can make the census work. Just pick your side . A lot to look into. Even the language used.
I always go to … why make up a lie that can be found out. Luke may have been written only 30 years after the death of Jesus.
If Luke wants to lie about Joseph getting to Bethlehem and not be found out why not say he was called by his family etc…nstead of making up a huge event that would have impacted lots of lives.

Almost all the Bible is what historians call ‘secondary evidence’

 

[carltonchelsea]

You strongly believe Christianity is not real, so be it, it is based on faith in what you believe. Like us, you can not disprove God or Jesus any more than I can prove it.

Not at all, even though several pages ago I attempted to try to make an argument for you.
Here’s the problem with “faith”, it can’t be reasoned with, nor given any justification for its validity, it just is.
It’s wish thinking at best and at worst it is evil.
It is a conversation and debate end game, if you applied that to any other part of society, politics, science etc. you’d be laughed at.
But for the religiously minded, it’s the greatest virtue in a person.
We’d be better off without it, anyone with it is on the last carriage of Jim Jeffries humanity train scenario.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Not at all, even though several pages ago I attempted to try to make an argument for you.
Here’s the problem with “faith”, it can’t be reasoned with, nor given any justification for its validity, it just is.
It’s wish thinking at best and at worst it is evil.
It is a conversation and debate end game, if you applied that to any other part of society, politics, science etc. you’d be laughed at.
But for the religiously minded, it’s the greatest virtue in a person.
We’d be better off without it, anyone with it is on the last carriage of Jim Jeffries humanity train scenario.

I've always felt the most unnecessary descriptor in the English language is the "blind" in "blind faith".

 

[Vdubs]

Sure those are your personal beliefs, you have the right to it.


Relevance? OT was written well before Jesus. And OT is supposed to be Jesus himself.

OR IT ISN'T?

LOL.

Without OT there's no NT.


OT clearly stated what god is like. Christian NT was written for over 1,000 years and has no eyewitness'. You realise this right?

Hinduism and Buddhism was also written hundreds of years before Jesus.

How are they the SAME GOD???

why play stupid again? The catholic church themselves agreed that Bible was written to confirm Christian beliefs, under the order from the Pope in the 500 A.D

Out of all religions, NT is the most on shaky grounds, not that you care but still.


Dude, you are one claiming they are all praying to the same god, when i state that they are not, you get your panties in a knot.

I cannot disprove there is no god, but i can disprove the Bible (you can start from Genesis to exodus, to flood to the birth of Jesus even and above all the prophecies etc). You cannot disprove Allah is not real or there aren't many gods either.

No faith needed to call out all the bullshit written in the Bible. From science to morality.

Plenty of people read the Bible and realise it's inconsistent and overtly error-laden, but it must be remembered when it was written, who for, context, and its purpose.
Having an attitude of wanting to understand what God might be wanting us to understand has got to be more beneficial than the attitude of how you can tear it apart.
It has stood the test of time so far, and will continue, despite all the flaws you mention.
The thing I will maintain, by faith and understanding, is that there is One Creator God only, and that's irrespective of any religious beliefs. It doesn't matter what you call Him, God or Allah.
Yes, Christians believe in the Trinity, that Jesus is the human form of God, and although Christians pray to Jesus as part of the Triune God, God the Creator, who preceded all life on Earth, is indefinable and unknowable, and Jesus allows us to get to know God.

 

[Roylion]

Plenty of people read the Bible and realise it's inconsistent and overtly error-laden,

Why should it then be regarded as the 'Word of God"?

Having an attitude of wanting to understand what God might be wanting us to understand

Why should we accept that the writers of the various books of the Bible had any understanding or knowledge of what "God might be wanting us to understand"?

The thing I will maintain, by faith and understanding, is that there is One Creator God only, and that's irrespective of any religious beliefs.

There is no evidence that this is actually so.

God the Creator, who preceded all life on Earth, is indefinable and unknowable,

Then why should we believe anything that any author has written about the nature of 'God', if it is unknowable?

and Jesus allows us to get to know God.

That's very disputable.

 

[peetoo]

Plenty of people read the Bible and realise it's inconsistent and overtly error-laden, but it must be remembered when it was written, who for, context, and its purpose.
Having an attitude of wanting to understand what God might be wanting us to understand has got to be more beneficial than the attitude of how you can tear it apart.
It has stood the test of time so far, and will continue, despite all the flaws you mention.
The thing I will maintain, by faith and understanding, is that there is One Creator God only, and that's irrespective of any religious beliefs. It doesn't matter what you call Him, God or Allah.
Yes, Christians believe in the Trinity, that Jesus is the human form of God, and although Christians pray to Jesus as part of the Triune God, God the Creator, who preceded all life on Earth, is indefinable and unknowable, and Jesus allows us to get to know God.

Even if one accepts the ‘creator’ theory, why exactly do we need ‘to get to know’ whatever it is?

For mine, one does not lead to the other.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Even if one accepts the ‘creator’ theory, why exactly do we need ‘to get to know’ whatever it is?

For mine, one does not lead to the other.

Exactly.

Once the penny drops that there's no rule that life has to have any "meaning" whatsoever... you can start actually living.

(And get a wriggle on everybody, 'coz we'll be dead for much longer than we were ever alive.)

Humans evolved to the point of being aware of their own mortality. This unsurprisingly created a perception we were special, and a desire to know what was the "reason" behind it. But it's simply evolution doin' its thing.

 

[Total Power]

Plenty of people read the Bible and realise it's inconsistent and overtly error-laden, but it must be remembered when it was written, who for, context, and its purpose.

It's not inconsistent, it's plagurised. There's a difference! Genesis is not an original story neither was Jesus' quotes, surely you understand the difference? This is irrespective of the fact there are horrible science in the Bible.

Having an attitude of wanting to understand what God might be wanting us to understand has got to be more beneficial than the attitude of how you can tear it apart.

Absolute garbage. What's there to learn exactly that you can't learn from Buddhism? except for the afterlife? all things Jesus said are not original. On the other hand there's millions of shit morality which you want to sweep under the carpet and you never wish to talk about it?

why?

What about death to atheists? women being inferior? divorce being bad? slavery is good? masturbation being bad? homosexuals are evil? i must hate my parents first? etc etc.

Why cherry pick? if morality came from GOD, all of it is the word of God. You pick and choose what suits you exactly shows me you don't believe it's the word of God either.

It has stood the test of time so far, and will continue, despite all the flaws you mention.

It has only spread due to the Romans and then imperialism/colonialism. Many religions like Buddhism/Hinduism never had those. Both Islam and Christianity was spread by sword.

Now it's dead, in places where it was born. If you remove the poorer nations and uneducated people, your religion is nearly dead.

Test of time , i think not. Islam will surpass in the next 5 years.

It is failing...with education. I have so many friends who have left Christianity, i know atleast 50. This is the trend...you seem to have a tunnel vision not to look at the data.

The thing I will maintain, by faith and understanding, is that there is One Creator God only, and that's irrespective of any religious beliefs. It doesn't matter what you call Him, God or Allah.

Again, you have failed to demonstrate how this is One god...yet you keep repeating it. Do explain how this is one god when the preaching in Islam pretty much destroys everything you believe in?

Yes, Christians believe in the Trinity, that Jesus is the human form of God, and although Christians pray to Jesus as part of the Triune God, God the Creator, who preceded all life on Earth, is indefinable and unknowable, and Jesus allows us to get to know God.

Jesus never claimed he was God himself..except for one place in John, which was written 100 years after the death of Jesus. How old do you think John was when Jesus was alive?

All bullshit stories written centuries after the death to so called 'preacher'.

MUSLIMS ARE RIGHT about this.

Your belief doesn't mean it's true, you parroting the same line doesn't make it true. You have failed time and time again to demonstrate it's one god. Remember OT is polytheism. "Let US make MAN in OUR image"

So many God's it is. YWH, Allah and Jesus are all different Gods.

 

[Total Power]

Exactly.

Once the penny drops that there's no rule that life has to have any "meaning" whatsoever... you can start actually living.

(And get a wriggle on everybody, 'coz we'll be dead for much longer than we were ever alive.)

Humans evolved to the point of being aware of their own mortality. This unsurprisingly created a perception we were special, and a desire to know what was the "reason" behind it. But it's simply evolution doin' its thing.

Because some people like to control others. When the Bible said: the scent of burnt offerings pleases the nose of the lord; and the prescription what the max age of the animals to be sacrificed may be; is t more likely that an omnipotent god can’t control his nose or that the religious leader loves BBQ but doesn’t like chewy meat?

Ask Vdubs , he will never quote these passages, i tried many times but failed. He will simply stay clear of such passages and then blame others for cherry picking.

Similarly, why says the first pillar of Islam that Mo is his messenger and why does the quran specify how many wives Mo can have? Well, Mo wanted to te the boss and he knew he didn’t want to wait for 72 made up virgins.

Islam,Christianity, they are all the same. If God exists and loves me unconditionally, i will have no need to follow him. Unfortunately i fear the God these guys worship is just the opposite. Obedience over righteousness is where they lost me. Completely and utterly bullshit.

 

[carltonchelsea]

I've always felt the most unnecessary descriptor in the English language is the "blind" in "blind faith".

I didn’t say blind faith though Gonz, but point taken!

 

[peetoo]

Because some people like to control others. When the Bible said: the scent of burnt offerings pleases the nose of the lord; and the prescription what the max age of the animals to be sacrificed may be; is t more likely that an omnipotent god can’t control his nose or that the religious leader loves BBQ but doesn’t like chewy meat?

Ask Vdubs , he will never quote these passages, i tried many times but failed. He will simply stay clear of such passages and then blame others for cherry picking.

Similarly, why says the first pillar of Islam that Mo is his messenger and why does the quran specify how many wives Mo can have? Well, Mo wanted to te the boss and he knew he didn’t want to wait for 72 made up virgins.

Islam,Christianity, they are all the same. If God exists and loves me unconditionally, i will have no need to follow him. Unfortunately i fear the God these guys worship is just the opposite. Obedience over righteousness is where they lost me. Completely and utterly bullshit.

And the Roman Empire took controlling others to a fine art

 

[Vdubs]

Exactly.

Once the penny drops that there's no rule that life has to have any "meaning" whatsoever... you can start actually living.

(And get a wriggle on everybody, 'coz we'll be dead for much longer than we were ever alive.)

Humans evolved to the point of being aware of their own mortality. This unsurprisingly created a perception we were special, and a desire to know what was the "reason" behind it. But it's simply evolution doin' its thing.

Why assume that all believers, Christians, are not living? Or not living life to its fullest? Or not enjoying life?
If anything, being Christian has opened a more fulfilling and joyous life than when I was self- sufficient, selfish, self-satisfied, achieving, succeeding....the biggest challenge in Christianity is to not be too hooked on what this world offers.

 

[Vdubs]

Even if one accepts the ‘creator’ theory, why exactly do we need ‘to get to know’ whatever it is?

For mine, one does not lead to the other.

Not all people feel they need to.
Jesus is there for those who do.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Why assume that all believers, Christians, are not living? Or not living life to its fullest? Or not enjoying life?

I’m not assuming, because I know.

I can’t prove it, but I know it’s true.

(Sound familiar?)

 

[carltonchelsea]

Why assume that all believers, Christians, are not living? Or not living life to its fullest? Or not enjoying life?
If anything, being Christian has opened a more fulfilling and joyous life than when I was self- sufficient, selfish, self-satisfied, achieving, succeeding....the biggest challenge in Christianity is to not be too hooked on what this world offers.

Tell me how that differs than anyone that doesn’t believe Jesus is their lord and saviour.
I was raised without any knowledge of a god or gods.
I was taught that actions good or bad would see the community react to both in equal measure.
Why is god or jesus a better measurement for the betterment of the community I had to deal with?
PS. My neighbours were Jewish and Catholics.

 

[Total Power]

Why assume that all believers, Christians, are not living? Or not living life to its fullest? Or not enjoying life?

I have said it before and i will say it again, 'you are shit person and you must pray for salvation' is no way to live a fulfilling life. You say we are all sinners, when i keep pointing out to you that according to God free thinking is also a sin you accuse me of cherry picking although numerous verses in the Bible state you must not think for yourself.

This is no way to live. As an exChristian i can see where you are coming from, living your life for the afterlife cookie but that life is a shit life, but you need to be outside the box to see my point of view. I can see yours cause i was a Christian once.

 

[Total Power]

the biggest challenge in Christianity is to not be too hooked on what this world offers.

Nietzsche speaks the truth that Christianity is a slave morality built on a glorification of losing in life. Instead of glorifying in mediocrity, go out and gain the fortune you yearn for!

Sin isn't real, but money isn't any more "real". The value of tree shavings is a mass-delusion we agree to uphold for the purpose of social order, not entirely unlike the religions we're deconstructing from. Focus on life, that which is in you and all around you. Love your family, love your friends, help people/animals unconditionally. Make the world a better place, in other words don't be an arseh*le.

Christianity glorifies humans, but to me my dog gives me so much joy. Unconditional love, loyalty and companionship. He won't eat without me, won't sleep without me, won't even walk without me. The joy i get from giving him a treat, i can't explain in any material terms. But according to Christianity humans only matter. I mean yeah sure, love, loyalty, unconditional affection doesn't matter....yup! Humans are not capable of this, if i call you an arseh*le you are likely to call me back an arseh*le too..but not my dog. He will still love me. That's pure love.

You make heaven/hell here on earth. All religions promise heaven/hell, but if you think about it, for once, we are all going to hell....cause god forbids things like masturbation, free thinking, giving women equal rights, loving my own family first etc etc.

I don't worry about an arseh*le god like the Christian god. I love the things which matter to my conscience, not glorifying a self confessed narcissist. Might suit you, it doesn't suit most who can think for themselves.

 

[Total Power]

Tell me how that differs than anyone that doesn’t believe Jesus is their lord and saviour.
I was raised without any knowledge of a god or gods.
I was taught that actions good or bad would see the community react to both in equal measure.
Why is god or jesus a better measurement for the betterment of the community I had to deal with?
PS. My neighbours were Jewish and Catholics.

I think they're acculturated and habituated to thank Jesus, to credit Jesus for all of their successes. Of course for all the failures, it's cause we are sinners and this world is a terrible place, the promise of heaven drives them.

When i lived in Switzerland I was training for a marathon with a doctor who was a very nice person but incredibly naiive (pretty much like our friend VD). When we passed the 10 km mark, the first time in our life for both of us, she called out "Praise Him! NEVER though i could do without you my lord!" But she was an aware that I am an atheist, and that we had both run the same distance.

She wasn't stupid, rather it was just how she was habituated to express exaltation or joy. She trained hard for it, she could barely run 3 kms before (just like me). Eventually we both got to run 10ks but it was our hard work and devotion to fitness that led to it. But for her, it's Christ that led her to do it, since she was fat and unfit and she prayed and Jesus changed her life.

As to what they "really" believe, it's hard to tell that when it's all so bound up in their family (who they don't want to disappoint), support networks, place of birth etc.

 

[Total Power]

I’m not assuming, because I know.

I can’t prove it, but I know it’s true.

(Sound familiar?)

Sorry to break it to you. Jesus is everything, you are nothing without him. Everything you are and do is from Jesus (no other God, read that, right?!!??). Your accmplishments are his. The only thing thats yours are your faults and failings and you have to grovel to get back in his good graces by praising him and joining his fanclub.

Text book cult.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Sorry to break it to you. Jesus is everything, you are nothing without him. Everything you are and do is from Jesus (no other God, read that, right?!!??). Your accmplishments are his. The only thing thats yours are your faults and failings and you have to grovel to get back in his good graces by praising him and joining his fanclub.

Text book cult.

Oh shit no.

 

[peetoo]

Not all people feel they need to.
Jesus is there for those who do.

So next time an evangelist makes the dubious link, it would be nice for them to append ‘by the way, being religious is optional. Nothing baaad will happen to you in some theoretical afterlife if you don’t take part’

 

[Vdubs]

I have said it before and i will say it again, 'you are shit person and you must pray for salvation' is no way to live a fulfilling life. You say we are all sinners, when i keep pointing out to you that according to God free thinking is also a sin you accuse me of cherry picking although numerous verses in the Bible state you must not think for yourself.

This is no way to live. As an exChristian i can see where you are coming from, living your life for the afterlife cookie but that life is a shit life, but you need to be outside the box to see my point of view. I can see yours cause i was a Christian once.

I was a non Christian once, never an atheist, but made a deliberate move to Christ at age 28. Never looked back. I sought more meaning and purpose.

Since conversion, my love of animals has also enhanced, poodles, whippets, cats, you name it, we have/had them all here.

That old joke of - Lock your wife and your dog in the boot of your car for an hour, open the boot, who is happiest to see you?

 

[Gough]

My Nanna was a born again Catholic, she was a pain in the arse about it too.

 

[Vdubs]

I’m not assuming, because I know.

I can’t prove it, but I know it’s true.

(Sound familiar?)

Well, having been in the reverse situation to you, I also know my own scenario.

 

[peetoo]

That old joke of - Lock your wife and your dog in the boot of your car for an hour, open the boot, who is happiest to see you?

Very Christian