Review Autopsy Thread: Round 1 Adelaide v Hawthorn

[Leather Poisoning]

1> Jordan Lewis tagging is such a waste, surely there are other players that are inferior to Jordans talent that can stick on a man......

Agree 100%

Thought he did a great job BUT could have been done just as well by Whitecross/Shiels. This is why I like Musto in this role last year, because it was a win for us. Neil Craig may have just thought to himself "okay, so we don't have Johncock's drive from defence but they certainly don't have Lewis's drive into attack- we're even, it's down to 17 vs 17."

Crazy stuff.

 

[Roger Rogerson]

Agree 100%

Thought he did a great job BUT could have been done just as well by Whitecross/Shiels. This is why I like Musto in this role last year, because it was a win for us. Neil Craig may have just thought to himself "okay, so we don't have Johncock's drive from defence but they certainly don't have Lewis's drive into attack- we're even, it's down to 17 vs 17."

Crazy stuff.

Especially when Lewis was one of our top goal assist players last year. Take him away from that role and you lose a tried and trusted path for the ball to move from defence to our key forwards.

 

[Rev08]

Agree 100%

Thought he did a great job BUT could have been done just as well by Whitecross/Shiels. This is why I like Musto in this role last year, because it was a win for us. Neil Craig may have just thought to himself "okay, so we don't have Johncock's drive from defence but they certainly don't have Lewis's drive into attack- we're even, it's down to 17 vs 17."

Crazy stuff.

I like Shiels as the defensive forward. Good player.

Concern with Lewis in the middle though is with Mitchell and Sewell already in there, plus Hodge, are we too slow through there again?

 

[savagelunchbox]

Lewis as a defensive forward will work if he can counterattack and score goals on top of shutting down a Johncock, Maxwell, Enright, etc. Look what he did against Brisbane last year when not only did he shut down Johnstone, he also kicked 3 goals i believe.

Could be a case of Hawthorn being too Buddy/Roughy centric? If you think about it, that's whats been missing since 08. A 3rd goal kicking option that we had in Williams and Boyle. Hale needs to take that role along with Taz.

 

[goaaaaaaaallllll]

Same old story, new season same cr*p.
Defense exposed once again, Buddy cant kick goals and Clarkson makes no game changing moves. Also cant win interstate.
If Buddy kicked 6.2 instead of 2.6, Hawthorn wins. Yes l do love having him on the Hawthorn team, he gets me to the games, but he is paid to kick goals, and goals win games. The 2008 season he led, marked and kicked goals. The last 2 season he hasn't lead and when he does take a mark, he cant kick goals. l cant understand how AFL players cant kick straight.
On the flip side, in the first half the midfield looked better than it has for a long time.

 

[Fluro Boots]

Let Bruce do the tagging, especially if it means he kicks it less

 

[dipper86]

I like Shiels as the defensive forward. Good player.

Concern with Lewis in the middle though is with Mitchell and Sewell already in there, plus Hodge, are we too slow through there again?

These are the midfielders at Hawthorn that have a run through our middle. .

Lewis, Hodge Sewell Mitchell, Burgoyne, Rioli, Bateman, Shiels,

Collingwood have multiple combinations rotating through.......

Just because we have 4 slowish midfielders doesn't mean we have to have all of them in at the same time...... we can have combinations......

Sewell Hodge Burgoyne

Hodge Mitchell Burgoyne

Lewis Mitchell Rioli

etc....

 

[dipper86]

Lewis as a defensive forward will work if he can counterattack and score goals on top of shutting down a Johncock, Maxwell, Enright, etc. Look what he did against Brisbane last year when not only did he shut down Johnstone, he also kicked 3 goals i believe.

Could be a case of Hawthorn being too Buddy/Roughy centric? If you think about it, that's whats been missing since 08. A 3rd goal kicking option that we had in Williams and Boyle. Hale needs to take that role along with Taz.

I think you answered this ...Look what he did against Brisbane, if we are marking ourselves on what players do against inferior opposition then we are really introuble.

Lewis should be rotated through the midfield, he is a contested ball magnet who is good overhead..... which makes him a different sort to Micthell and Sewell..... when you also factor in that we have one less midfield rotation then you finally see it is a liability and a waste, he is better than being just a tagger, other inferior players can and should be able to cover his tagging role, his speed when the opposition has the ball is also a factor, we need some pace in our forward line to cause some pressure turnovers, Rioli cant do it all himself.

If i had a choice i would be putting Pup in the forward line as our defensive tagger, with his mixture of pace and hardness he'd be effective in locking the ball in......

If you have a look at our forward lineup, the only player in there with genuine pace was Rioli, when you factor in that he has stints on ball, then we were left with no one.

Our line up on the weekend was

Osbourne Franklin *(not sure who played here)

Lewis Roughead Rioli

Now thats one slow ar*e line up and an oppositions wet dream on the fast break.

 

[McCavity]

Leaving the ground i heard a lot of people saying "what is it about AAMI that makes us play so bad?" I personally see it being the fact that AAMI seems far skinnier in comparison to the G. A skinnier ground equates to less room for an effective lead and a player like Buddy knows this and subsequently chooses not to lead and rely on his natural talent to get his goals.

Afraid I'll have to correct you on that one. MCG playing area 171m x 146m
AAMI playing area 177m x145m

 

[cambosis]

Im know im late to the party - but for what its worth here's my 2 cents.

for the record - i think the level of vitriole on this thread is appalling, particularly towards the players, most of you sound like youve had a family member dismembered.

Round 1 with a new game plan was always going to result in some 'clangers.' the first half i thought just about everyone played their game abotu right. I commented that if we had a ruckman and got a fair rub of the umpires we could have been 10 goals up. We dont and we didnt and thats that. I thought some of the regulars played fantastically. I couldnt fault mitchell, Sewell, Gibson, Stratton, Birchall, Gilham, Batemen, Young. Exciting stuff from the new guys, Shiels, Savage++, Hale (solid), Suckling all held their own or excelled. I thought Lewis was complete crap until the commentators mentioned he was in a 'run-with' role on Johncock who hadnt been seen - so clearly he was playing a role in the team. I was pretty well happy, but i also saw the level of errors that were creeping into the game, our saving grace in the first half was our extent of posession which meant we got crack after crack after crack.

the second half as we all know was a different story. Adelaide increased their pressure and intensity (reducing our disposal efficiency), picked up a lot more contested ball (reducing the number of chances) and i think a lot of the guys really ran out of puff - even the SA flog commentators made mention of the huge number of rub downs at 3QTR time - tired/cramped legs means a further reduction in efficiency and our attack on the ball). No doubt adelaide also adpated to our game style, putting more pressure on the ball carrier to force turnovers - the number of times that we kicked directly to a Crow in our F50 is evidence of this.

I must say that i was disappointed to see that a Plan B wasnt enacted in the final QTR, but perhaps clarko didnt realise how far our Legs were gone, or miscalculated the impact losing Sewell would have (either through choice or neccessity). Burgoyne disappearing in the 2nd half was also a concern (i had been told that he disappeared when the going got tough only the day before but didnt believe it). I also noticed that Cyril, for all his magic and evasion skills really needs to get better at hitting a target. Too many times the ball we over the head or bounced 3 m in front - the margin was too great for the 'marker' to adapt. Whitecross is not a sub - he needs to work into games and a final qtr cameo doesnt allow him to do it.

of most concern was our vulnerability on the rebound - a bit of tinkering with the size and roles people play will hopefully sort this out.

On the positive side I love buddy getting 8 shots on goal, i thought Roughy took a couple of strong marks and kicked a couple of key goals particularly as acting captain when we needed it. Savage was fantastic. (last minute SC inclusion won me 2 games). Dito Gibson & Stratton - these guys make a great defensive unit.

if we can fix a few skill errors, adpat aerobicly to the new game style and tinker with our defensive structures to protect against the rebound we should be ok. Last years game plan kept us in the hunt but was never a premiership winning style. the coaches have obviously agree and are trying a mix of fast movement (handbaggers) and forward press (wobbles).

that said, if we arent able to do these things all the coaching staff will be in serious trouble - thats what they are there to do - assess the respective skills/attributes of a group of individuals and decide upon a game plan that best harnesses those skills.

But give it more than 1 game - A Round 1 win does not a premiership make.

 

[shoddy]

Afraid I'll have to correct you on that one. MCG playing area 171m x 146m
AAMI playing area 177m x145m

AFL website has AAMI listed at 165m x 133m and MCG listed at 160m x 141m....reasonable variation there.

 

[Beachy]

What a crazy night of footy. Was excited and dissapointed at the same time. Again our structure and game plan raised questions. I know that the boys are getting use to something different but the first 2 quarters was exceptional. The ball was moved fast and with precision. In the second half the intensity dropped off and we became lazy. There was no attach on the pill that made the opposition think twice about it. Roughy playing out of the square (that is where he should stay) needs to crunch players who stand in the hole.

When we got tired our disposal was appaling and the team structures broke down. The number of times we kicked straight to the opposition was scary. Our forward line was crowded and the crows was open. They kicked goals easily simply because of this fact.

Umpires were terrible. All you ask for is consistant decisions but on the night they were horrible. Run of the luck we received the rough end of the stick right in front of our goals or in the middle of the ground. Because they held an open forward line they could move the ball in fast resulting in goals.

If players are not going to chase their opposition player, rutton waltzed out of defense for the last two quarters then play people who will give something. ROughy might need to have a game in the twos and bring lisle in for a run. Suckling just doesn't insert himself into a game. Great skills but has to want it more. Bruce was good except for a couple of howlers. Hale showed something. Shields and savage were good in spurts but not for long enough.

Hopefully against Melbourne the structure can hold up and play 4 quarters of footy

 

[PeeRod]

Round 1 and already every player accourding to the threads on BF is on notice.. ha!

Some people need to relax.

 

[hardway]

Was dissapointed with the loss on the weekend, But i must say im still very optimistic about our game plan, i think with a few tweaks we will be hard to beat, We just need to implement a change during play were we play tempo footy so we can last 4 quarters of football.. If you add Hodge to the second half of the crows game, we get the 4 points.

 

[Hawk-in-syd]

Was dissapointed with the loss on the weekend, But i must say im still very optimistic about our game plan, i think with a few tweaks we will be hard to beat, We just need to implement a change during play were we play tempo footy so we can last 4 quarters of football.. If you add Hodge to the second half of the crows game, we get the 4 points.

I was too angry to post after the match, Just watched it again and am feeling alot better.

The Good
-our attack with fast ball movement looked great and got us 5 goals up. I'm thinking we just went a bit hard for too long, sewell, mitch, burgs killing it in the middle just needed to settle. You can't attack like that all game and we ran out of puff. We will learn from that and play TEMPO footy by just holding it up occasionaly, its the first game FFS

-our defence, I think it looked good Strats and gibo were fantastic. Don't buy into our back line being bad or too short. We got burnt on turnovers, any defence will get beaten when the midfield has no pressure.

The Bad
-rucks yuk, I've never been a fan of renouf but he improved his tapwork heaps last year but still has miles to go. His marking has improved but please just give it off. On sat he won quite a few hitouts but telegraphs where they go so rarely hits to advantage. His work around the ground has never been good but for some reason people thought he was better the taylor. Should only ever play a kick behind the ball and never forward of the circle. He will play better this week and Hale should play more in the ruck until max is fit.

-the forward press/zone should only be played 50%-80% of the time depending on the fitness of players. I just don't think you can do it all match. Probably missing a couple of hooper type small forwards with pace (pops?)

Its not the end of the world yet. There are positives to come out of the game and we need some tweeking to the game plan.

Can't wait till rd2

 

[MinerBoy]

Disappointing to lose a game we seemingly had in our complete control but hardly the end of the world. We showed enough early on to suggest we will be good to watch this season. Obviously we need to work out how to capitalise on our dominance. We didn't score enough when we had it and let them score too easily on the rebound. However, we played in Adelaide and did absolutely dominate a lot of the game. That in itself is a pretty good sign as far as I'm concerned. If the boys are as hungry as they seem to be, and tell us they are, then I am quitely confident we will iron out some of the kinks and go on and have a pretty good year.

 

[hawksalltheway]

Disappointing to lose a game we seemingly had in our complete control but hardly the end of the world. We showed enough early on to suggest we will be good to watch this season. Obviously we need to work out how to capitalise on our dominance. We didn't score enough when we had it and let them score too easily on the rebound. However, we played in Adelaide and did absolutely dominate a lot of the game. That in itself is a pretty good sign as far as I'm concerned. If the boys are as hungry as they seem to be, and tell us they are, then I am quitely confident we will iron out some of the kinks and go on and have a pretty good year.

well put...definitely some promising signs

mitchell all class...savage v impressive...and some return to form from changa, laddo, sewell...

just need to put it togather for 4 qtrs....

 

[AudiR8dreamer]

Well, just about everything that could be said, has been. What worries me the most is I still think we try to make our game plan too complicated. Football isn't rocket science, so don't try to make it like it is. Here's what I'd like to see to exploit our forward talent and limit exposure in defense:

Forward line:
Only Franklin & Roughead in our F50 at all times (or whoever rotates with them), and they lead in different directions to create one-on-one contests. This creates great open space for them to work in. When the ball is in our D50, they stay in the F50 for any fast rebound - we did this in 2008 with great success. If the opposition adds a 3rd defender to double team either of them, place our spare player to roam at the top of the F50 arc.

Defense:
At least 3 defenders stay on the defensive side of the center square at all times and man-on-man, even when we have a full court press into our forward half. And under no circumstances does an opposition forward stay unmanned in our D50 - never. If there is to be congestion anywhere on the field, it's in our defense, not our forward line.

Midfield:
Not much change needed here. We have great talent. Having an open forward line as suggested will improve the midfielders' passing, as there'll be less precision needed to avoid loads of defenders.

There - simple.

 

[halfbackflank09]

It's only a first round loss ..... The season is a marathon.

At least we came out unscathed ... http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...gun-david-mackay/story-e6frf9jf-1226030109682

The Crow's really DID throw everything at us .... but it may prove a disaster for them.

 

[Leather Poisoning]

It's only a first round loss ..... The season is a marathon.

At least we came out unscathed ... http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...gun-david-mackay/story-e6frf9jf-1226030109682

The Crow's really DID throw everything at us .... but it may prove a disaster for them.

A bye in round two will help them, but I see your point.