Europe Backdrop to the war in Ukraine

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This is the thread for the geopolitics, history and framework around the Russia-Ukraine conflict. If you want to discuss the events of the war, head over to this thread:

Europe - War in Ukraine - Thread 4 - thread rules updated

This is the thread for discussing the War in Ukraine. Should you want to discuss the geopolitics, the history, or an interesting tangent, head over here: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/backdrop-to-the-war-in-ukraine.1302028/ If a post isn't directly concerning the events of the war or...
www.bigfooty.com www.bigfooty.com
 
nut said:
Do you think he doesn’t bash republicans?
Click to expand...
Correct. Just had a search through his videos.

nut said:
you realize Dems are in power?
Click to expand...
I do.

Clearly the GOP and their leaders have done not a single thing over the last 2 years that a channel focused on socio/economic/political issues might comment negatively on, no siree bob :tearsofjoy:
 
bourbons said:
Correct. Just had a search through his videos.


I do.

Clearly the GOP and their leaders have done not a single thing over the last 2 years that a channel focused on socio/economic/political issues might comment negatively on, no siree bob :tearsofjoy:
Click to expand...

So this is about taking sides?? Is it?

No thanks…
Trump was corrupt …. Biden is corrupt ….. Clinton’s were corrupt … the bush family were corrupt …. The USA has always been pro big business and is corrupt.
 

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There are motivations left right and centre

Russia:
  • a declining population which is disastrous for an economy. picking up the ukraine adds 40m people under putins belt
  • picking off ukraine, belarus (puppet state) and moldova brings russia back to empire status in the west along with control/influence over the stans and caucuses
  • putin thought the west wouldn't intervene, as they didn't with crimea, as he thought the west need russia in the case china do something naughty
  • putin wants to expand his defence treaty (CSTO)

the west:
  • want to create regional stability in the fringes of europe (refer EBRD mandate)
  • an extension of this is beyond jobs, property rights, trade but also military stability
  • the west are happy for russia to get bogged down in a war they can't win for a variety of reasons including weapons and raw materials


on thing I found interesting and perhaps the only time I will say Nixon was right. The West won the cold war but we failed to support russia in the 90s to allow for a law abiding, free state to emerge

 
nut said:
So this is about taking sides?? Is it?

No thanks…
Trump was corrupt …. Biden is corrupt ….. Clinton’s were corrupt … the bush family were corrupt …. The USA has always been pro big business and is corrupt.
Click to expand...
No, its about using available data to determine how reliable your source is.

Taking Brand's word for it on anything Ukraine, much less thinking he's "summing up the situation better than anyone" when he has the track record and displays the clear bias in coverage that he does is... generous, to put it mildly. If you can't tell how slanted that take was, the selection of points he chose to touch on (Ukraine bad coz labour laws, just lol :drunk:) and those he chose to avoid, I'm not sure what to tell you.

Gethelred this is the context I was posting in ie. assessment of Brand's take on the Ukraine situation. But delete away if you don't agree, all good.
 
bourbons said:
No, its about using available data to determine how reliable your source is.

Taking Brand's word for it on anything Ukraine, much less thinking he's "summing up the situation better than anyone" when he has the track record and displays the clear bias in coverage that he does is... generous, to put it mildly. If you can't tell how slanted that take was, the selection of points he chose to touch on (Ukraine bad coz labour laws, just lol :drunk:) and those he chose to avoid, I'm not sure what to tell you.

Gethelred this is the context I was posting in ie. assessment of Brand's take on the Ukraine situation. But delete away if you don't agree, all good.
Click to expand...

So how reliable is the USA ???? How many counties have they invaded on a lie? FMD….
 
nut said:
So how reliable is the USA ???? How many counties have they invaded on a lie? FMD….
Click to expand...
But in this case, it's clearly not a lie.

In fact, everyone said the US were lying when they said they knew the Russians were going to invade. But they were right.

The Ukrainian people don't care if the Iraq war included lies for its basis. There can be no doubt that Russia started this invasion.
 
nut said:
So how reliable is the USA ???? How many counties have they invaded on a lie? FMD….
Click to expand...
Not very. But you don't need the USA or their rhetoric to make a clear-eyed assessment on whats happening in Ukraine and who is at fault. By any objective measure, the Brand video minimises Russia's blame or role in the current situation by seeking to cast Ukraine in a negative light.

Its just nonsense.
 
bourbons said:
Kushner got $2B, thats billion with a B, from Saudi Arabia after MBS overruled his own sovereign wealth fund's initial decision to pass, and pushed it through.
Click to expand...
I can almost hear the audience snoring. He won't do it because he has no ability to drive the conversation, only hang on the end and recycle other people's opinions.

I can't recall any point at which he has changed the national or international conversation with original, powerful thoughts on a matter.

Anyone who watches him regularly can you give us an example of this type of output from him?
 
bourbons said:
Not very. But you don't need the USA or their rhetoric to make a clear-eyed assessment on whats happening in Ukraine and who is at fault. By any objective measure, the Brand video minimises Russia's blame or role in the current situation by seeking to cast Ukraine in a negative light.

Its just nonsense.
Click to expand...

So Bill Gates saying the Ukraine government is one of the most corrupt in the world is just nonsense too?
 

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nut said:
So Bill Gates saying the Ukraine government is one of the most corrupt in the world is just nonsense too?
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No, he said it - about the government in Ukraine pre-war. Zelensky was elected on an anti-corruption platform, but it doesn't change overnight.

The nonsense aspect is that stuff has absolutely nothing to do with Ukraine being invaded. Along with lots of other nonsense in Brand's video - Ukraine bad coz labour laws, 70% of aid not getting through (false), UK nixed a potential peace deal (false - Johnson urging caution on taking Putin at his word does not = nixing a peace deal, very definition of common sense I would have thought).

There was more but I'm not watching it again.
 
bourbons said:
No, he said it - about the government in Ukraine pre-war. Zelensky was elected on an anti-corruption platform, but it doesn't change overnight.

The nonsense aspect is that stuff has absolutely nothing to do with Ukraine being invaded. Along with lots of other nonsense in Brand's video - Ukraine bad coz labour laws, 70% of aid not getting through (false), UK nixed a potential peace deal (false - Johnson urging caution on taking Putin at his word does not = nixing a peace deal, very definition of common sense I would have thought).

There was more but I'm not watching it again.
Click to expand...

Explain the pandora papers please.
 
nut said:
Whataboutism is string in here
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Do you mean strong instead of string?
Read and weep
www.lemonde.fr

Behind Putin's wealth lies a 'co-operative' holding more than $4.5 billion in assets

For the first time, an investigation has linked 86 companies in a co-operative suspected of owning luxury real estate, yachts and bank accounts sharing the same email domain name: LLCinvest.ru.
www.lemonde.fr www.lemonde.fr
www.icij.org

All Putin’s Men: Secret Records Reveal Money Network Tied to Russian Leader - ICIJ

Complex offshore financial deals channel money and power towards a network of people and companies linked to President Vladimir Putin.
www.icij.org www.icij.org
www.theguardian.com

Revealed: the $2bn offshore trail that leads to Vladimir Putin

A massive leak of documents shines new light on the fabulous fortunes of the Russian president’s inner circle
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
 
nut said:
Zelensky is such a hero

www.occrp.org

Pandora Papers Reveal Offshore Holdings of Ukrainian President and his Inner Circle - OCCRP

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky rode to power on pledges to clean up the Eastern European country, but the Pandora Papers reveal he and his close circle were the beneficiaries of a network o...
www.occrp.org www.occrp.org
Click to expand...
lol. Now do Putin. Or Trump or Biden, for that matter.

Who do you think running Ukraine would be best - Zelensky or Putin? Coz that's the choice.
 
nut said:
Zelensky is such a hero

www.occrp.org

Pandora Papers Reveal Offshore Holdings of Ukrainian President and his Inner Circle - OCCRP

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky rode to power on pledges to clean up the Eastern European country, but the Pandora Papers reveal he and his close circle were the beneficiaries of a network o...
www.occrp.org www.occrp.org
Click to expand...
Those companies were set up 6 years before he entered politics, when he started making money in Television.

The links to the station being owned by an oligarch is like saying Jamie Durie is shonky because he has a nice house based on his Kerry Stokes money.

This was also known when he went to elections and won the Presidency and then his party won the first absolute majority in Ukrainian history.

It's not uncommon for people in eastern European countries to have offshore banking, considering Ukraine's own banks are relatively new to capitalism and not the institutions like Western retail banks are.
.
 
nut said:
Whataboutism is strong in here
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I think its simply a reminder that you guys seem psychologically incapable of nuance.

Like yeah, the guy's not squeaky clean - demonstrably moreso than the fascist authoritarian seeking to erase his country's national identity of course, but whatever. Coz he's not the paragon of good MSM sometimes makes out no one should care about his country being made into a fascist vassal state.

How you could get this triggered over some MSM puff pieces you'd claim to take 0 notice of in other contexts and Sean ****ing Penn handing the guy an Oscar is bizarre, mate. Russia is in there killing men, women and children. Focus.
 
Last edited:
owen87 said:
You know he'd be getting plenty of speaking engagements, book royalties, etc...

Meanwhile, you're silent on Trump and his actual, proven, tax evasion.
Click to expand...
Zidane98 said:
These things you bring up are irrelevant to the situation at hand. Ie Putin being a rampaging fascist who invaded a neighboring country because he feels he is entitled to that country and/or its resources. Russia does NOT have the interests of Ukranian people at heart. This is blatantly obvious to anyone who has watched the horrific war he has waged on Ukraine with absolutely zero justification.


You need to focus more on why Putin thinks the age of colonialism is still around.
Click to expand...

Got ya ….

And I agree Putin is bad…

I just hate seeing hypocrisy…

I’m anti war. Anti corrupt governments.
 

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Europe Backdrop to the war in Ukraine

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