Ben Cousins is or is not a Tiger discussion [Merged Threads]

[emperor]

Re: Ben Cousins a Tiger

Too many unknowns. And I know drafting is an unknown in general, but most draftees don't have the potential to blow up in theclub's face. If we pick up Cousins and he relapses, it will be a dire PR situation for the club. And whether or not you like it, PR, Markting, 'image' is extremely important to such a public organisation like RFC, and Cousins is a huge gambe that could destroy a lot of that.

Cogga is right about sponsors, they don't want a bar of the circus that is Cousins and Nixon. From all the stuff you see and read, it doesn't look like Cousins wants to shelve his party boy lifestyle, I could be wrong but that is the impression I get.

Cousins would purely be a short term grab for glory. The risks aren't worth it imo. A lot of you have been banging on about Tezza's 5 year plan and why he had to see out the five, well recruiting Cousins would fly in the face of that plan and the gospel that TW spun Tigerheads all those years ago. Draft another kid please

 

[CoggaRules]

Re: Ben Cousins a Tiger

AFL?

Well they're copping it from everywhere for their handling of the issue as it is. That's the only reason why the AFL would have a look.

I'm in no position to judge their opinion of Cousins and therefore, I won't.

naa the eagles said on ya bike, which is damning.

 

[corporal]

Re: Ben Cousins a Tiger

It sounds harsh but also there remains an unanswered question, i.e. how good a player is Ben Cousins off the juice? I doubt anyone can answer that with confidence as he obviously played a considerable period, if not the majority of his AFL career using substances, many of which are clearly performance enhancing. I was always of the opinion that he was bloody lucky not to be stripped of his Brownlow and premiership medals a la Marion Jones, Ben Johnson Tour de France et al. When the Saints and Lions actually go observe and investigate him then ignore him in the draft, that was the nearest I ever got to an answer.

Yeah taking specialised performance enhancing steroids is different then smoking crack. If he was smoking a crack pipe (or even injecting for that matter) pre game so that he could play high people would have soon known about it. With the mental effects associated with these drugs I'd expect reduced performance if anything especially over a long period of time.

Anyway its fair enough off the cuff comment I suppose however I can't recall this (onfield performance gains through social drug use) ever seriously been raised as an issue.

Looks like won't be getting however it was a nice (or bad) for some thought

 

[astro_toby]

Re: Ben Cousins a Tiger

there is no way cousins should be allowed to be a mature age rookie - that would be a joke and an insult to all mature age players who have not been given a chance by their club due to a serious injury

 

[TravelingTiger]

Re: Ben Cousins a Tiger

it doesn't look like Cousins wants to shelve his party boy lifestyle, I could be wrong but that is the impression I get.

because he attends a few shop openings and birthday parties?

id say your impression is pretty off the mark if your talking about the party boy lifestyle he has been associated with in the past...theres a big difference between socialising with underground figures and attending functions mate

 

[hougie]

Re: Ben Cousins a Tiger

naa the eagles said on ya bike, which is damning.

Again, I have NFI - and I'd guess you'd have as much idea as me.

Could be damning, might not be.

Assuming it is damning is to overlook the fact that the club's personal relationship with the player became untenable not so long ago as well as the need to get him the f*** away from WA.

I see your point, but all most of us can do is fence sit and wait it out.

 

[Rancid_Beasties]

Re: Ben Cousins a Tiger

dude, the facts are that Sponsors dont want a bar of any of this publicity. Be it for paranoid reasons or whatever, it is what is. What you dont realise is that thats the nature of the beast and you cant change it, the suits who make the calls on where they put their money have many avenues that they can channel it into. They dont need us, we need them.
I mean by what you are suggesting we get Ben, and then tell the sponsors, hey dudes, look we have ben and if he ****s up the publicity you will get will be good for you. Hello???? earth to Rancid.
Sponsor X gets a call from the tankers and Judd and then gets a call from us and Ben....who do you think gets the cashola?

I fail to see how an electronics company (or for that matter any company really) could in any way be negatively affected by ben cousins relapsing. Nobody is going to say "that company sponsors drug addicts, i'm not going to buy from them anymore". People are stupid but not that stupid. Furthermore, carlton is the best example of any publicity being good publicity. All of those corporate sponsors came on board at carlton despite the fact that their now former president is a corporate criminal. Surely that has more of an effect on the reputation of a sponsor given the nature of the indiscretion (relates to business...not the private life of an individual).

Corporate sponsors should realise that if he doesn't relapse and plays somewhat near his best the benefits are enormous. We will rise up the ladder, this will become the AFL's feelgood redemption story of the year and the media coverage will be enormous. Their investment in our club will appreciate enormously!

 

[CoggaRules]

Re: Ben Cousins a Tiger

I fail to see how an electronics company (or for that matter any company really) could in any way be negatively affected by ben cousins relapsing. Nobody is going to say "that company sponsors drug addicts, i'm not going to buy from them anymore". People are stupid but not that stupid. Furthermore, carlton is the best example of any publicity being good publicity. All of those corporate sponsors came on board at carlton despite the fact that their now former president is a corporate criminal. Surely that has more of an effect on the reputation of a sponsor given the nature of the indiscretion (relates to business...not the private life of an individual).

Corporate sponsors should realise that if he doesn't relapse and plays somewhat near his best the benefits are enormous. We will rise up the ladder, this will become the AFL's feelgood redemption story of the year and the media coverage will be enormous. Their investment in our club will appreciate enormously!

you see this is where you miss the point dude. You cant see why, but the fact is that they dont like to associate themselves with BAD publicity or potential BAD publicity. They dont look at what the customer is going to say, they just dont want it. You seem to also forget that Bens shit wasnt a oncer, so when they way up the pros and cons surrounding where they are going to just shell out their, piss up against the wall(advertising), cash, they have a million and one other avenues that dont come with the cons that Ben comes with.

 

[1980]

Re: Ben Cousins a Tiger

WAS a freak - past tense.

What he's capable of without playing under the influence of performance enhancing substance(s), in his early 30's, with a dodgy hamstring, is anyone's guess.

He may lack anywhere near the same concentration, intensity and endurance he once had when he was wired, and all that aside, his ongoing hamstring problems alone could mean that he contributes less to the club than Blumfield did (for the same reason).

I have no moral objections to us getting him, and now he's virtually free I have practically no financial/salary cap issues, however, I'd prefer a junior mainly for the simple reason that it's difficult to see Cousins ever being more than a shadow of his former self onfield.

Did Cousins ever look high to you when he was playing? Because he was using drugs off the field, not on. So drugs were a negative effect on his game, not positive.

And a year off has done wonders for his hammies.

No-one knows how good he will be. Not where he was, but still better than half the midfielders going around in the AFL. I reckon he will be in the top 10. He lost his way because it all became too easy. But now he's got an axe to grind and a lot to prove.

 

[Rancid_Beasties]

Re: Ben Cousins a Tiger

you see this is where you miss the point dude. You cant see why, but the fact is that they dont like to associate themselves with BAD publicity or potential BAD publicity. They dont look at what the customer is going to say, they just dont want it. You seem to also forget that Bens shit wasnt a oncer, so when they way up the pros and cons surrounding where they are going to just shell out their, piss up against the wall(advertising), cash, they have a million and one other avenues that dont come with the cons that Ben comes with.

I really think you are simplifying it far too much. Surely, these sponsors aren't just looking at the situation and saying "ohhh potential for bad publicity! run away! run away!". They would have to be weighing up the pros and cons...and to me, there is no greater marketing opportunity in the AFL next year than the return of ben cousins. I honestly think whether or not he relapses the boost in media attention will ensure that the dick smiths logo would get at least double the exposure! Thats awesome bang for buck.

Hopefully there are some companies that can see the benfits and would be willing to sponsor us as we try to give a man on the path to recovery his chance at redemption.

 

[CoggaRules]

Re: Ben Cousins a Tiger

Did Cousins ever look high to you when he was playing? Because he was using drugs off the field, not on. So drugs were a negative effect on his game, not positive.

And a year off has done wonders for his hammies.

No-one knows how good he will be. Not where he was, but still better than half the midfielders going around in the AFL. I reckon he will be in the top 10. He lost his way because it all became too easy. But now he's got an axe to grind and a lot to prove.

no one knows anything dude. The only thing we know is that he was a top notcher before his demise. Thats the only point you look at. So by your reckoning, that one point, is all that matters to a footy club and any other points should not be scritinised, correct?

 

[lvt06]

Re: Ben Cousins a Tiger

Richmond, meanwhile, ruled out recruiting former West Coast star Ben Cousins in this month's pre-season draft.

 

[CoggaRules]

Re: Ben Cousins a Tiger

I really think you are simplifying it far too much. Surely, these sponsors aren't just looking at the situation and saying "ohhh potential for bad publicity! run away! run away!". They would have to be weighing up the pros and cons...and to me, there is no greater marketing opportunity in the AFL next year than the return of ben cousins. I honestly think whether or not he relapses the boost in media attention will ensure that the dick smiths logo would get at least double the exposure! Thats awesome bang for buck.

Hopefully there are some companies that can see the benfits and would be willing to sponsor us as we try to give a man on the path to recovery his chance at redemption.

dude...there are 15 other clubs in the comp. Me thinks you are simplifying it a little to much. i.e. If as you say, surely there are sponsors....then me is tipping that he would have been snapped up in the ND, because as you suggest, you get a top midfielder and you get the bonus of sponsorship bucks...but here we are heading for the PSD, our own CC has said, WE WONT BE GETTING HIM and low and behold every AFL club, has missed a golden opportunity to generate sponsorship dollars...

 

[True Thylacine]

Re: Ben Cousins a Tiger

Fair point...
However he wasn't a drug addict when first recruited, and he won the rising star award. I certainly can't say i know for a fact but I don't think it was until the latter part of his time at West Coast that he became relient on drugs. Your comment about him being stripped of his Brownlow though is one of the most stupid things I've read on here in a long long time though....On what basis do you believe he should have been stripped of it?
Never tested positive mate...enough said!

As is your point a fair one in relation to his medals and never having tested positive. That was me thinking outloud really, I personally would have liked to have seen him made a greater example of somehow, not sure how really but I just did. The fact that he wasnt and failed to test positive for God knows how long when he was clearly involved in substance abuse just reflect badly on the AFL for mine. I also dont buy the fact that steriods are somehow different to cocaine and speed and that the latter cant be used to enhance performance. Anyway..as Benny says "such is life"

 

[Kowalski]

Re: Ben Cousins a Tiger

Did Cousins ever look high to you when he was playing? Because he was using drugs off the field, not on. So drugs were a negative effect on his game, not positive.

And a year off has done wonders for his hammies.

No-one knows how good he will be. Not where he was, but still better than half the midfielders going around in the AFL. I reckon he will be in the top 10. He lost his way because it all became too easy. But now he's got an axe to grind and a lot to prove.

Well said.

 

[astro_toby]

Re: Ben Cousins a Tiger

astro you must work in the media with comments and pictures like that...tool

google cousins pictures mate - THAT is what the world thinks of Ben Cousins now.

The guy has been in the papers that many times over the past 3 years for this sort of shit - what do you think he is.

He isn't a footballer anymore - he WAS a footballer - now he is a former footballer, drug rehab patient. that is the FACT of the matter - its tools like yourself and 1980 that are obsessed with what he did BEFORE the drugs.

I can't understand people who were happy as a pig in shit to bag this bloke out when he was getting done in an eagles jumper - now you think he might come to richmond and play that good for us - everyone is acting as if it never happened.

guess what? it did happen, he ****ed his own life up by acting like a spoilt prat - i forgive him for being a drug addict, but i don't forgive him for being an arrogant selfish prat who was responsible for bringing his entire club down from premiers to the sack of shit they have became this season.

Sleep with dogs you get fleas

We have just spent 5 years rebuilding this club from the trash dump it was to a side on the brink of success - it was done by players like brown, richo, deledio, thursfield, foley etc. Make no mistake, if we make the finals next year with cousins in the side - ALL the success of that will be "because of Cousins". Recruit him, and he will take over everything at the club - if he or you like it or not.

I want us to make finals next year without cousins - and i want deledio and co to be congratulated for rebuilding this club to its former glory - the way it should be..

 

[Rancid_Beasties]

Re: Ben Cousins a Tiger

dude...there are 15 other clubs in the comp. Me thinks you are simplifying it a little to much. i.e. If as you say, surely there are sponsors....then me is tipping that he would have been snapped up in the ND, because as you suggest, you get a top midfielder and you get the bonus of sponsorship bucks...but here we are heading for the PSD, our own CC has said, WE WONT BE GETTING HIM and low and behold every AFL club, has missed a golden opportunity to generate sponsorship dollars...

He said we wont get him in the PSD. Doesn't mean we wont try to slot him into our rookie list with an exemption.

Also, the "15 other clubs didnt want him so there must be something we dont know about" argument is rubbish. We all know he has probably relapsed again, hence why he cut his hair. We all know that he is a gigantic risk of relapsing yet again. We all know he has injury problems. However, how damaging is it going to be to the club to loose 1 rookie list spot for the year if he does relapse or get injured? And how damaging is it really going to be to our credibility if he relapses? We just have to say "we tried to be compassionate and give him a chance but he blew it".

The benefits are gigantic, the risks are virtually nothing... provided a couple of sponsors can get it through their heads that this is a fantastic opportunity.

Obviously, if the sponsors are being asses about this we have to say no thanks because we are not in the position to be putting sponsorship dollars at risk. But surely, somewhere in this world, there would be a company willing to take a small risk for a large return.

 

[CoggaRules]

Re: Ben Cousins a Tiger

He said we wont get him in the PSD. Doesn't mean we wont try to slot him into our rookie list with an exemption.

Also, the "15 other clubs didnt want him so there must be something we dont know about" argument is rubbish. We all know he has probably relapsed again, hence why he cut his hair. We all know that he is a gigantic risk of relapsing yet again. We all know he has injury problems. However, how damaging is it going to be to the club to loose 1 rookie list spot for the year if he does relapse or get injured? And how damaging is it really going to be to our credibility if he relapses? We just have to say "we tried to be compassionate and give him a chance but he blew it".

The benefits are gigantic, the risks are virtually nothing... provided a couple of sponsors can get it through their heads that this is a fantastic opportunity.

Obviously, if the sponsors are being asses about this we have to say no thanks because we are not in the position to be putting sponsorship dollars at risk. But surely, somewhere in this world, there would be a company willing to take a small risk for a large return.

again dude, if they were then he would be training with his new club as we speak.
Conpsiracy Theory - 23543-H5765b suggests that the AFL want to look like they are letting the comp pass judegment, but has told all to steer clear. This way it takes the heat off them. They know they ****ed up from the start on how they handled the whole chammozle over the stretch, and they really want this to fade into the sunset real quick.
The unfortunate thing for Ben is that there isnt one K. Sheedy or someone like him still coaching, reckon Sheeds would have snapped him up double time.

 

[astro_toby]

Re: Ben Cousins a Tiger

The benefits are gigantic, the risks are virtually nothing... provided a couple of sponsors can get it through their heads that this is a fantastic opportunity.

.

honestly dude - what are you expecting? the "best" on filed you could expect from Cousins at his age, and considering his rehab, and he sat a year out and he showed VERY obvious signs that his Hammy's were on the way out just before he finished up - the best onfield you can expect from his performance is a Nathan Eagleton.

Now, i'm not bagging Eagleton - i think he is a very handy type - but considering the down side of cousins with a "worst case" scenario - i would not take the risk - we desperately need a bit more youth oin our side before the GC - we really did not treat this draft with the correct respect in my opinion

 

[lvt06]

Re: Ben Cousins a Tiger

He will not be coming to richmond

100%

 

[lvt06]

Ben Cousins IS NOT a Tiger

And he never will be.

5/12 - 2:45

Richmond, meanwhile, ruled out recruiting former West Coast star Ben Cousins in this month's pre-season draft.

 

[Mario Speedwagon]

Re: Ben Cousins a Tiger

One thing I will say , if he does come to us and stuffs up again, you can bet the media will be sticking the knives into us for "not seeing the obvious warning signs" and "another poor decision down at Punt Road", whereas if the same thing happened at, say, Carlton , they'd be all "kudos to the mighty blues for trying their best and giving him a chance" and it'd be all Cousins' fault according to those pricks.

 

[jackson_rules]

Re: Ben Cousins IS NOT a Tiger

And he never will be.

5/12 - 2:45

Richmond, meanwhile, ruled out recruiting former West Coast star Ben Cousins in this month's pre-season draft.

get over yourself

 

[one eyedtiger]

Re: Ben Cousins a Tiger

If he relapses at our club it will be an utter embarrassment and also has the chance that some of our kids falls into the wrong crowd with him being at the club if he's not clean. It also influences the chance of decent sponsors, which we need, in a recession especially, as shown by the Kangas and the Lions sponsors telling them not to get Cousins.

Also as shown on his last return the break from footy had restricted his body and his hammy was torn apart. He then had another lapse.

The benefits do not outweigh the positives, which is that he might be able to play for 3-4 years if everything goes right, which I have no confidence in.

Agree 100% phx. I've Said it before if he gets caught its our name that gets dragged through the mud and its our club that gets the media scrutiny.

 

[Cotchin9]

Re: Ben Cousins is or is not a Tiger discussion

are we or aren't we getting him?? now im confused!!