List Mgmt. Best 23 for 2024

[chriso11]

Did Prestia retire or something? How come no one picking him in their best 23? I saw someone pick Dow over him to start in the midfield

An unproven kid on his 9th life with 3 decent games in the bag over 3x premiership winning future 300 gamer. People losing their minds, we’re not north Melbourne or west coast

 

[tiger_tough]

The only thing I'm umm-ing and ahh-ing over with this is whether Prestia is a lock, and whether someone like Dow or Sonsie should take Prestia's spot on the bench.

I don't think you need all of TT, Hopper, Bolton and Prestia if you still want to include someone like Dow or Sonsie as 4th I/C, and if you still want Dusty going into the middle, then I think you're playing one too many midfielders that doesn't have a natural second position.

You're probably missing a genuine pressure small forward (something Yze has said he wants to bring back, I believe), and depending on how MRJ does, could see more midfield minutes as well instead of being a pure small fwd.

Prestia is a lock comfortably. Reckon he played under duress a fair bit this season plus Cotchin retiring will help the midfield balance. Mansell is probably the only other player we have that can play the genuine pressure small forward role but I reckon MRJ will get first crack at it.

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

Prestia is a lock comfortably. Reckon he played under duress a fair bit this season plus Cotchin retiring will help the midfield balance. Mansell is probably the only other player we have that can play the genuine pressure small forward role but I reckon MRJ will get first crack at it.

Only if he comes back fit...otherwise...nopeski!!!

 

[TheOptimum18]

Prestia is a lock comfortably. Reckon he played under duress a fair bit this season plus Cotchin retiring will help the midfield balance. Mansell is probably the only other player we have that can play the genuine pressure small forward role but I reckon MRJ will get first crack at it.

I wouldn't say comfortably a lock considering the season just gone, but I'll reserve harsher criticism on the chance that he was playing under duress.

My two biggest criticisms of match selection this season has been the way we've dealt with our talls, and the fact that we seem to load up on midfielders who all play the same position.

Like I said, if we're planning to have all 3 of Hopper, TT and Prestia in the starting 22, then I think Dow and/or Sonsie will need to start the season in the VFL. Personally, I would rather have an eye on the future.

 

[chriso11]

Yo

Based on Yze stating that he wants to play players in their best positions and in clearly defined roles here is how I see the players being grouped in order

Key Defender​	Medium Defender​	Key Forward​	Medium Forward​	Midfield Forward​	Midfielder​	Ruck​
Balta Gibcus Young* Miller*​	Short Vlastuin Broad D.Rioli Baker Trezise* Brown Grimes Ralphsmith Banks Smith​	Lynch Bauer* Koschitzke#​	Graham Clarke Mansell Coulthard* M.Rioli Sonsie Cumberland Green Campbell*​	Martin Bolton​	Taranto Prestia Ross Hopper Pickett* McIntosh Dow​	Nankervis Soldo Ryan Nyoun* Colina* Hayes-Brown*​

* - rookie listed
# - requested trade to Richmond
Red - out of contract on October 31st

Yikes… reading this list makes me feel like our squad is back to 2010-2011 quality when we had the likes of Mitch Farmer, Luke mcguane and Ben nason in the y&b. We seriously need an injection of high quality young talent if we are to get to our next premiership window. Fooling ourselves if we think otherwise

 

[tiger_tough]

I wouldn't say comfortably a lock considering the season just gone, but I'll reserve harsher criticism on the chance that he was playing under duress.

My two biggest criticisms of match selection this season has been the way we've dealt with our talls, and the fact that we seem to load up on midfielders who all play the same position.

Like I said, if we're planning to have all 3 of Hopper, TT and Prestia in the starting 22, then I think Dow and/or Sonsie will need to start the season in the VFL. Personally, I would rather have an eye on the future.

I'd prefer we play our best side and try win as many game as possible. If it's lineball or the tail end of the season and we suck, play the kids. It's not lineball with Prestia.

 

[Hank Heavenly]

I'd prefer we play our best side and try win as many game as possible. If it's lineball or the tail end of the season and we suck, play the kids. It's not lineball with Prestia.

With your top end talent (like Prestia), 100% you do.

Where we fell down this year though, was he likes of Kmac, who we believed was better at the time than the kids, but his output was terrible, so giving the kids the opportunity should've outweighed what we thought Kmac would do in helping deliver the W.

 

[tiger_tough]

With your top end talent (like Prestia), 100% you do.

Where we fell down this year though, was he likes of Kmac, who we believed was better at the time than the kids, but his output was terrible, so giving the kids the opportunity should've outweighed what we thought Kmac would do in helping deliver the W.

Yeah im with ya. Graham, Pickett and McIntosh were the three this year that got plenty of games they didn't deserve. Probably Grimes too to be honest.

 

[TheOptimum18]

Yeah im with ya. Graham, Pickett and McIntosh were the three this year that got plenty of games they didn't deserve. Probably Grimes too to be honest.

But I don't see a massive drop off in the quality of our midfield if it was TT, Hopper, Bolton, Dow, for example, with Dusty going through the middle as well.

 

[daftmike]

Vlas Gibcus Brown
HRS Balta Short
McIntosh Hopper Banks
Lynch Kozi DanR
Bolton Baker Taranto

Nank Martin Prestia

Clarke Graham Cumberland Dow

Thats how we should line up for 2024.

 

[_RT_]

Since Yze was appointed I've been having a bit of a look back at the sides he has been a part of as a coach and I can see a few things that stand out that may give a bit of an insight into how our best 23 may structure up from round 1 next year, which is also based around his comments about being defensively strong and also at the contest.

First thing that stood out was that at both Hawthorn and Melbourne their back lines were built on having 2-3 KPD types and then surrounding them with quality ball usage that allows the team to turn defense into attack without needing to take great risks. All the defenders must be capable of actually defending as well. With the KPD there was generally 1 who can handle the oppositions number 1 KPF, a solid number 2 who defends well but can also be involved in the counter attack. The 3rd KPD is more about intercept marking and being the 3rd man up when the other 2 have their opponent engaged in a 1-1 contest, while also capable of launching a counter attack themselves.

As far as the medium/small defenders are concerned, the key criteria were being defensively sound with very good to elite foot skills to ensure the counter attack gives the team the best opportunity to score. As Yze said if you're strong at the contest and defensively sound your offence will take care of itself. We have seen even in a poor year like this year that we have the medium defenders that can fulfill these roles.

In the midfield both teams seemed to use a ruck & ruck/forward set up, with the ruck spending 75-80% on ball and 20-25% bench or resting forward. Inside the centre square they had bulls who were hard at the contest, the slight difference between Hawthorn and Melbourne is that Melbourne have the bigger bodied types in Oliver(189/87) Petracca(187/98) & Viney(179/86) as their main midfield group which had the Demons ranking top 6 for total clearances and top 3 for clearance differential. In comparison our midfield group was Taranto(188/87) Hopper(188/87) Prestia(175/82) Bolton(175/77) & Dow(183/79). As a team we ranked 13th for total clearances & 14th for total clearance differential. So while we had some big bodies in their it would appear that our mix at times wasn't as good as it could be.

On the wings both Hawthorn & Melbourne had outside runners who can run all day, have discipline to maintain their width and not get sucked in to the play and can use the ball at a very high level. As we all know our wingers started out as McIntosh and Pickett then McIntosh & Ross when Pickett moved forward. Ross is a good user, however I'd like to see him return to the role he made us all take notice initially, while McIntosh and Pickett were both capable of running all day and playing disciplined roles their impact with the ball in hand was often frustrating.

Up forward Hawthorn were blessed by having their forward lines built around Buddy and Roughy with Gunston initially, then when Buddy left Hale stepped in, around them were skilled medium forwards who could feed on ground balls but also quite capable of taking a grab as well. At Melbourne the make up has been slightly different, Fritsch and Pickett have been their main goal kickers with a couple of KPF there more for structure than goal kicking although they were capable of hitting the scoreboard when opportunity presented. They also had a good spread of goal kickers among the medium forwards as well with Neal-Bullen Melksham Petracca & Chandler all kicking 19+ goals this season as well.

All things going well we should have a proven goal kicker in Lynch heading up our forward line and we've targeted Koschitzke to come in as support in place of Jack. As mentioned above I also like the idea of Ryan playing ruck/forward although I'm not sure Yze will go that way, so I expect to see Lynch and one of Ryan/Koschitzke playing the KPF roles. It is here where I believe we will see the biggest change to how we line up. I can see us loading up with attacking options with the likes of Martin Bolton Coulthard & Cumberland.

Given all that the 23 I'm currently looking at is as follows:

B: Balta Young Vlastuin
HB: Baker Gibcus Short
C: D.Rioli Hopper Banks
HF: Martin Ryan/Koschitzke Bolton
F: Cumberland Lynch Coulthard
R: Nankervis Taranto Ross
INT: Broad Dow Clarke Trezise Brown

IMO that side fulfills criteria of being defensively solid, strong at the contest and dangerous up forward, while also giving the youth an opportunity to stake their claim as well.

 

[sante]

Yeah im with ya. Graham, Pickett and McIntosh were the three this year that got plenty of games they didn't deserve. Probably Grimes too to be honest.

Harsh on Marlion who was played out of position for most of the season

 

[tiger_tough]

Harsh on Marlion who was played out of position for most of the season

Yeah but if he's not on a wing he shouldn't be in the team. He offered nothing forward majority of the time.

 

[Harrison Bergeron]

Played on ball on debut and it's still his best game.

 

[Football Tragic]

Our squad has been built with a priority on the backline. It has been our number one strength for a decade.

There are still two roles we need covered though why concerns me -

1. Astbury was our under rated lockdown pillar in defense. No frills, no risks. Solid. Who is his replacement?
Balta? Still has too many brain-fades.
Young? One dimensional.
Gibcus? Raw and needs development.

2. Grimes was our best 'small' defender. By small, I don't mean that he was/is. I mean he was our best match up for the opposition small X-Factor forwards like Cameron, Green, Betts, Pickett etc. Now he is fading. He may regain his form but his replacement needs grooming. And who will that be?
Brown? Can't even hold his place in the team atm.
Baker? Wasted as a lockdown defender
Vlaustin? Better suited as an intercept defender.

I hope that we can develop like for like replacements for these two players in our defense but atm, they are weaknesses. We have the cattle, the youth, the talent, but they need game time and experience. This means short term pain but I have confidence in the future of Balta, Gibcus, Baker, Short and Rioli and high hopes for Young, Brown, In saying this, our defense remains our greatest strength.


Our midfield looks great on paper but is unbalanced. We now have too many inside midfidlers and not enough too way runners. Taranto, Hooper, Dow and Ross are all ball winners but struggle to break away from a contest. Dow is very good at using his hands to find outside runners which could be crucial to our gamestyle moving forward.
Prestia, Bolton, Martin and Sonsie are our two way runners but do not have the inside strength Taranto and Hopper do.
For mine, I do not like Taranto and Hooper in the same midfield mix.
My favourite combinations would be:

Combination #1
Inside - Taranto, Prestia, Bolton
Outside - Martin, Banks

Combination #2
Inside - Hopper, Martin, Dow
Outside - Baker, McIntosh

But it's our forwardline that should be our number one focus. Lynch's return can not be understated. He straightens us up, acts as a link player, brings our smalls into the game. In the end though, we need a second foil (and probably a third). This is where we fall away quickly. We have promising players in Ryan and Bauer but the drop in consistency and ability from Lynch to these two is glaring at this stage. Perhaps the introduction of Koschitzke will make up some of the distance but this trade is not a given and neither is his proven forward craft at this stage.

Even with these two talls, we have holes everywhere up forward. We desperately need a consistent small crumbing forward. We don't have one. Clarke could be a good high half forward in the future. Coulthard needs more time to settle in the role. Cumberland is more of a small key position player than a crumber. Bolton is ideal but shouldn't be wasted as an exclusive crumbing small when he is so good in the midfield too. Dusty is a midfield who can be damaging when resting forward. He's not a stay at home forward.
Ultimately, we need two small forwards who can pressure and crumb. It's crucial to our game style and future fortunes.

So here is my team atm -

B: Balta Young Vlastuin
HB: Baker Gibcus Short
HHB: Rioli
C: McIntosh Hopper Banks
HHF: Cumberland/Clarke
HF: Martin Koschitzke
F: Lynch Bolton
R: Nankervis Taranto, Prestia
INT: Ryan, Dow, Pickett, Brown

All of the italicized names need to become proven operators for us to become flag contenders again. I really do believe that we need two dangerous small forwards to rise again. Perhaps Yze will sort all of these issues out by developing and trading new players to make up these issues. I really don't think we're as far off the pace as our ladder position suggests with our current list.

 

[The Mighty]

. People losing their minds, we’re not north Melbourne or west coast

Not yet

 

[Vassp]

what struck me watching the grand final was the quality of field kicking.
TT quality disposal is a myth.
We need good ball users to play this modern game which has moved on.
Hopefully new coach will address this.

There is no set team. The kids will grow into their positions.
its the old and unskilled that will make way.

 

[The Mighty]

According to early scuttlebutt doing the rounds, one or a couple or even more of these blokes might not be at the RFC in 2024, we will find out in the next few weeks.

Soldo, Ralphsmith, Prestia and Graham.

 

[The Mighty]

There is no set team. The kids will grow into their positions.
its the old and unskilled that will make way.

Yep the natural selection process will define the herd.

 

[THE THIN MAN]

Yep the natural selection process will define the herd.

 

[cairo tiger]

Vlas Gibcus Brown
HRS Balta Short
McIntosh Hopper Banks
Lynch Kozi DanR
Bolton Baker Taranto

Nank Martin Prestia

Clarke Graham Cumberland Dow

Thats how we should line up for 2024.

HRS makes me throw up

 

[SleepingGiant]

Since Yze was appointed I've been having a bit of a look back at the sides he has been a part of as a coach and I can see a few things that stand out that may give a bit of an insight into how our best 23 may structure up from round 1 next year, which is also based around his comments about being defensively strong and also at the contest.

First thing that stood out was that at both Hawthorn and Melbourne their back lines were built on having 2-3 KPD types and then surrounding them with quality ball usage that allows the team to turn defense into attack without needing to take great risks. All the defenders must be capable of actually defending as well. With the KPD there was generally 1 who can handle the oppositions number 1 KPF, a solid number 2 who defends well but can also be involved in the counter attack. The 3rd KPD is more about intercept marking and being the 3rd man up when the other 2 have their opponent engaged in a 1-1 contest, while also capable of launching a counter attack themselves.

As far as the medium/small defenders are concerned, the key criteria were being defensively sound with very good to elite foot skills to ensure the counter attack gives the team the best opportunity to score. As Yze said if you're strong at the contest and defensively sound your offence will take care of itself. We have seen even in a poor year like this year that we have the medium defenders that can fulfill these roles.

In the midfield both teams seemed to use a ruck & ruck/forward set up, with the ruck spending 75-80% on ball and 20-25% bench or resting forward. Inside the centre square they had bulls who were hard at the contest, the slight difference between Hawthorn and Melbourne is that Melbourne have the bigger bodied types in Oliver(189/87) Petracca(187/98) & Viney(179/86) as their main midfield group which had the Demons ranking top 6 for total clearances and top 3 for clearance differential. In comparison our midfield group was Taranto(188/87) Hopper(188/87) Prestia(175/82) Bolton(175/77) & Dow(183/79). As a team we ranked 13th for total clearances & 14th for total clearance differential. So while we had some big bodies in their it would appear that our mix at times wasn't as good as it could be.

On the wings both Hawthorn & Melbourne had outside runners who can run all day, have discipline to maintain their width and not get sucked in to the play and can use the ball at a very high level. As we all know our wingers started out as McIntosh and Pickett then McIntosh & Ross when Pickett moved forward. Ross is a good user, however I'd like to see him return to the role he made us all take notice initially, while McIntosh and Pickett were both capable of running all day and playing disciplined roles their impact with the ball in hand was often frustrating.

Up forward Hawthorn were blessed by having their forward lines built around Buddy and Roughy with Gunston initially, then when Buddy left Hale stepped in, around them were skilled medium forwards who could feed on ground balls but also quite capable of taking a grab as well. At Melbourne the make up has been slightly different, Fritsch and Pickett have been their main goal kickers with a couple of KPF there more for structure than goal kicking although they were capable of hitting the scoreboard when opportunity presented. They also had a good spread of goal kickers among the medium forwards as well with Neal-Bullen Melksham Petracca & Chandler all kicking 19+ goals this season as well.

All things going well we should have a proven goal kicker in Lynch heading up our forward line and we've targeted Koschitzke to come in as support in place of Jack. As mentioned above I also like the idea of Ryan playing ruck/forward although I'm not sure Yze will go that way, so I expect to see Lynch and one of Ryan/Koschitzke playing the KPF roles. It is here where I believe we will see the biggest change to how we line up. I can see us loading up with attacking options with the likes of Martin Bolton Coulthard & Cumberland.

Given all that the 23 I'm currently looking at is as follows:

B: Balta Young Vlastuin
HB: Baker Gibcus Short
C: D.Rioli Hopper Banks
HF: Martin Ryan/Koschitzke Bolton
F: Cumberland Lynch Coulthard
R: Soldo/Nankervis Taranto Ross
INT: Broad Dow Clarke Trezise Brown

IMO that side fulfills criteria of being defensively solid, strong at the contest and dangerous up forward, while also giving the youth an opportunity to stake their claim as well.

Our KPP stocks are that bad compared to those contending it's not funny. I honestly think we are 5 new A graders off remotely contending given the decline of ours (Grimes, Prestia, loss of Riewoldt/Cotchin/Edwards/Lambert). We no longer have a dominant ruck, or backline.

 

[tiger_tough]

Our KPP stocks are that bad compared to those contending it's not funny. I honestly think we are 5 new A graders off remotely contending given the decline of ours (Grimes, Prestia, loss of Riewoldt/Cotchin/Edwards/Lambert). We no longer have a dominant ruck, or backline.

Not sure about that Ed. Pies just won a flag with Moore, Howe and Murphy in defence, Mason Cox/Darcy Cameron in the ruck and Mihocek and Frampton up forward.

Gibcus, Balta, Young, Nank/Ryan, Lynch, Kosi, Bauer is better than that mix on paper.

 

[rfctigerarmy]

Just checking in to say this is such a great thread.

 

[rfctigerarmy]

Please update your teams