Strategy Best 23, Post Draft edition for Season 2025 (updated)

[Vdubs]

I said I could see Martin playing 12 AFL games next year. State how many you think he will play and we'll see who gets closer.

While I could not care less about who is closest, given he's played 151 games in 14 seasons, I'll go for his average- 11 games. Realistically, a 30 yo injury-prone footballer, with lots of competition for his spots, 11 games would be massive.

 

[Gazza Greatness]

I said I could see Martin playing 12 AFL games next year. State how many you think he will play and we'll see who gets closer.

I'm a little confused Mr Meow: are we talking about Dusty Martin who I thought was retired for good or Oisin Mullin or is there another Martin I do not know about?

 

[Ratcat]

Will be interesting to see if the club's fitness staff/physio's etc can get Jack Martin clear from his recurring injuries, obviously the club must have some hope with him, otherwise they wouldn't have wasted a senior spot on the list.

 

[Mr Meow]

While I could not care less about who is closest, given he's played 151 games in 14 seasons, I'll go for his average- 11 games. Realistically, a 30 yo injury-prone footballer, with lots of competition for his spots, 11 games would be massive.

Haha so after all that you agreed with me anyway. Your initial reply really didn't make it seem that way.

PS with a lot of these things you offer a pessimistic but vague take. So I like to get something objective out of you as far as what you actually expect. Or else vague pessimism is just pretty pointless!

 

[D BRIDGE]

I'm a little confused Mr Meow: are we talking about Dusty Martin who I thought was retired for good or Oisin Mullin or is there another Martin I do not know about?

Jack Martin is now on Geelong's list.

 

[D BRIDGE]

While I could not care less about who is closest, given he's played 151 games in 14 seasons, I'll go for his average- 11 games. Realistically, a 30 yo injury-prone footballer, with lots of competition for his spots, 11 games would be massive.

Not if they are 11 "meh" games.

I don't currently know what Geelong's plans are with Martin.

All I know is that if he plays, I hope he plays well—and if he plays well, I hope he plays a lot of games.

 

[Gazza Greatness]

Jack Martin is now on Geelong's list.

Oh YES, how quickly one forgets and the poor bugger hasn't even played a game yet.... thanks for my forgetfulness but it would be ironic if Dusty decided to make comeback for one season and play for Cats and win himself another flag!

 

[Vdubs]

Haha so after all that you agreed with me anyway. Your initial reply really didn't make it seem that way.

PS with a lot of these things you offer a pessimistic but vague take. So I like to get something objective out of you as far as what you actually expect. Or else vague pessimism is just pretty pointless!

vague pessimism- ?
look at reality, he's been injury prone for several seasons, 24 in particular.
Speak to those in the know and you might appreciate some realism.

 

[Hamingja]

I didn't think Martin would be the sort of player we would target when he was first linked but we have taken 7 guys at 40+ in the draft so taking a risk on Martin compared to drafting another guy at pick 80 is a meh whatever to me.

We are probably going to have to take a few DFA over the next few years to fill the list out after retirements. Having 15+ super speculative young players on the list wouldn't be pretty.

 

[Vdubs]

I didn't think Martin would be the sort of player we would target when he was first linked but we have taken 7 guys at 40+ in the draft so taking a risk on Martin compared to drafting another guy at pick 80 is a meh whatever to me.

We are probably going to have to take a few DFA over the next few years to fill the list out after retirements. Having 15+ super speculative young players on the list wouldn't be pretty.

Agree. Low risk, low cost, low expectations

 

[Mr Meow]

vague pessimism- ?
look at reality, he's been injury prone for several seasons, 24 in particular.
Speak to those in the know and you might appreciate some realism.

Mate we agree on how many senior games he'll play in 2025, so you are effectively arguing with a paper bag as your previous post stated we are on the same page.

Your first post was vaguely pessimistic but when I pushed you for a number it turns out you're Martin-optimistic. Quite a few would pencil him in for 2 senior games or less.

 

[Vdubs]

Mate we agree on how many senior games he'll play in 2025, so you are effectively arguing with a paper bag as your previous post stated we are on the same page.

I don't agree at all. I have no idea. All I did was give an average of what he's done so far. From many reports, he can't get his body right. You think 12. I guess anything from 3-11. Not arguing, just the usual pessimism angle you come up with if I relay what has been discussed and told to me and it happens to differ from your "optimistic" pov.
Good thing is, low cost, low risk, and he is class.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

I didn't think Martin would be the sort of player we would target when he was first linked but we have taken 7 guys at 40+ in the draft so taking a risk on Martin compared to drafting another guy at pick 80 is a meh whatever to me.

We are probably going to have to take a few DFA over the next few years to fill the list out after retirements. Having 15+ super speculative young players on the list wouldn't be pretty.

Hopefully next year we can hit quality trade ins/FAs as a pose to DFAs (like we did in 2015). The FA market wasn't there this year.

 

[Mr Meow]

I don't agree at all. I have no idea. All I did was give an average of what he's done so far. From many reports, he can't get his body right. You think 12. I guess anything from 3-11. Not arguing, just the usual pessimism angle you come up with if I relay what has been discussed and told to me and it happens to differ from your "optimistic" pov.
Good thing is, low cost, low risk, and he is class.

I said 12 games, you said 11. On the same page.

If you want to go with 3 (which does fit better with your original post), that's cool too. I'll revise it now.

 

[CHAWKTS]

We need one more true first choice mid under 26 in my opinion. Holmes and Smith are likely A graders through there but we need one more to completely the rotation. Bruhn, Clark, Bowes are handy but need to lift a notch. Think there's a solid chance Dempsey moves to the middle too, i think he moves a bit like Connor Rozee, but that won't be tomorrow if it happens at all

Agree. I think they hope Tanner is that player. And he could be but needs his body to be right. Understand he has had an interrupted pre season again which is a real shame…quickly we need to see whether he can become an A grader. I admit to bias (positive) but even I am nervous about whether he can take that next leap. What I do know is that the club coaches love him - he will get every chance…

Clark I frankly have no idea. Love the way he plays from what I have seen but just no evidence yet as to whether he is an A grader. Not saying he wont be but I just can’t tell

Bowes is interesting for me. A bit like Tanner for me in that he either makes it in the midfield or I think he will struggle. His best games (and he has had some really good ones) have been in the midfield…but is he good enough to take a spot in an A grade team? I just don’t know.

The name you didn’t mention that I hope leapfrogs everyone is Knevitt. Again I admit to a bias (I just love the group of players from 21 to 24yo)…but we need a tall midfielder and he I think can become a beast. I find it hard to see how he gets a shot (Bowes, Atkins, Danger, Guthrie all in front of him and Holmes, Smith, Danger, Bruhn are certain starters in the rotation)…

Dempsey is really interesting (noting my bias). From what I “hear” the coaches absolutely think he will be an A grade midfleider but I am getting no indication that is a 2025 thing. The thinking is that he is now our only specicialist wingman (which is quite amazing given where he was 12 months ago) and they want that to be consolidated. In 2025 they are not going to try and develop another wingman (ie. no Duncan, Blitz, Knevitte etc) but use the “non-Dempsey” side as just a midfield rotation spot (which means we can squeeze in one more midfielder)…. My hope is Dempsey backs up his break out year and just as we are convinced he is an AA wingman - Cats will then mix it up and try him as a true mid…but maybe a couple of years away.

 

[My Tilly]

Bowes is now 27 so perhaps he turns the switch and really becomes a consistent midfielder but based on past history, he will likely be solid depth and that's fine. Carlton is a good example in Hewett & Kennedy (now at Dogs) having two 27-30yr old depth players who complemented Cripps/Walsh fine.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Agree. I think they hope Tanner is that player. And he could be but needs his body to be right. Understand he has had an interrupted pre season again which is a real shame…quickly we need to see whether he can become an A grader. I admit to bias (positive) but even I am nervous about whether he can take that next leap. What I do know is that the club coaches love him - he will get every chance…

Clark I frankly have no idea. Love the way he plays from what I have seen but just no evidence yet as to whether he is an A grader. Not saying he wont be but I just can’t tell

Bowes is interesting for me. A bit like Tanner for me in that he either makes it in the midfield or I think he will struggle. His best games (and he has had some really good ones) have been in the midfield…but is he good enough to take a spot in an A grade team? I just don’t know.

The name you didn’t mention that I hope leapfrogs everyone is Knevitt. Again I admit to a bias (I just love the group of players from 21 to 24yo)…but we need a tall midfielder and he I think can become a beast. I find it hard to see how he gets a shot (Bowes, Atkins, Danger, Guthrie all in front of him and Holmes, Smith, Danger, Bruhn are certain starters in the rotation)…

Dempsey is really interesting (noting my bias). From what I “hear” the coaches absolutely think he will be an A grade midfleider but I am getting no indication that is a 2025 thing. The thinking is that he is now our only specicialist wingman (which is quite amazing given where he was 12 months ago) and they want that to be consolidated. In 2025 they are not going to try and develop another wingman (ie. no Duncan, Blitz, Knevitte etc) but use the “non-Dempsey” side as just a midfield rotation spot (which means we can squeeze in one more midfielder)…. My hope is Dempsey backs up his break out year and just as we are convinced he is an AA wingman - Cats will then mix it up and try him as a true mid…but maybe a couple of years away.

What has tanners injury issue been? I am Very bullish on him if he stays fit.

I think with Clark the issue will be finding a role for him. He's clearly class and he's going to develop quicker at afl than vfl I think but he has neither the endurance tank or the body strength yet to play as a full time mid and he doesn't have the height or marking to play fwd. So we are going to have to craft a role for him somewhere.

I think this is a make or break year for knevitt ie we won't delist him but if he can't break through this year he's better off trying to go to a bottom club for more games. I think Bowes is fringe and i don't think we will get much from cam g so I think there's more chances for him there than we think but he has to have like 5 good games in a row like Dempsey and make it too hard for them to leave him out.

We really need osullivan to start coming through but his body isn't ready yet I don't think. Same on Conway.

 

[Mr Meow]

Agree. I think they hope Tanner is that player. And he could be but needs his body to be right. Understand he has had an interrupted pre season again which is a real shame…quickly we need to see whether he can become an A grader. I admit to bias (positive) but even I am nervous about whether he can take that next leap. What I do know is that the club coaches love him - he will get every chance…

Clark I frankly have no idea. Love the way he plays from what I have seen but just no evidence yet as to whether he is an A grader. Not saying he wont be but I just can’t tell

Bowes is interesting for me. A bit like Tanner for me in that he either makes it in the midfield or I think he will struggle. His best games (and he has had some really good ones) have been in the midfield…but is he good enough to take a spot in an A grade team? I just don’t know.

The name you didn’t mention that I hope leapfrogs everyone is Knevitt. Again I admit to a bias (I just love the group of players from 21 to 24yo)…but we need a tall midfielder and he I think can become a beast. I find it hard to see how he gets a shot (Bowes, Atkins, Danger, Guthrie all in front of him and Holmes, Smith, Danger, Bruhn are certain starters in the rotation)…

Dempsey is really interesting (noting my bias). From what I “hear” the coaches absolutely think he will be an A grade midfleider but I am getting no indication that is a 2025 thing. The thinking is that he is now our only specicialist wingman (which is quite amazing given where he was 12 months ago) and they want that to be consolidated. In 2025 they are not going to try and develop another wingman (ie. no Duncan, Blitz, Knevitte etc) but use the “non-Dempsey” side as just a midfield rotation spot (which means we can squeeze in one more midfielder)…. My hope is Dempsey backs up his break out year and just as we are convinced he is an AA wingman - Cats will then mix it up and try him as a true mid…but maybe a couple of years away.

Appreciate your intel and insights as always CHAWKTS , again I find myself agreeing with most things.

Bruhn I have had the same concerns around his durability. And we have no idea about his long term tank, given they have used him in short burst so far. He is struggling to get momentum as far as minutes on the field and number of uninhibited games - an issue always seems to be around the corner. He does have talent and I'd love to see it come together for him. If he can get on the park enough I'm confident he'll take good strides forward.

Agreed on Clark, I'm yet to be convinced but he has time on his side.

Knevitt is more time pressed and is one that if he makes it as a decent midfielder would be in the "proving me wrong" camp. At VFL level he looks great, but we've had a few midfielders like that who couldn't quite take the next step up.

Bowes is an enigma both in terms of his output and how we use him. In danger of being an "almost" player who can't quite put big blocks of impactful games together. His best is more than useful. Big year for him.

Very exciting to hear about Dempsey and their plans for him, even if for 2025 that means more of the same on the wing. If he keeps improving his game and building his body like Zuthrie meticulously did, I could see that move to midfield working and him being one of our genuine stars in a few years.

That non Dempsey wing is going to be interesting. I guess we will still see Holmes and Smith there at times. Can Bowes find some good use there? As usual we should still have Miers and Mannagh rotating as pseudo attacking wingmen either way. So perhaps need our midfield rotation to focus on more defensive running.

 

[Kobe Gryant]

Agree. I think they hope Tanner is that player. And he could be but needs his body to be right. Understand he has had an interrupted pre season again which is a real shame…quickly we need to see whether he can become an A grader. I admit to bias (positive) but even I am nervous about whether he can take that next leap. What I do know is that the club coaches love him - he will get every chance…

Clark I frankly have no idea. Love the way he plays from what I have seen but just no evidence yet as to whether he is an A grader. Not saying he wont be but I just can’t tell

Bowes is interesting for me. A bit like Tanner for me in that he either makes it in the midfield or I think he will struggle. His best games (and he has had some really good ones) have been in the midfield…but is he good enough to take a spot in an A grade team? I just don’t know.

The name you didn’t mention that I hope leapfrogs everyone is Knevitt. Again I admit to a bias (I just love the group of players from 21 to 24yo)…but we need a tall midfielder and he I think can become a beast. I find it hard to see how he gets a shot (Bowes, Atkins, Danger, Guthrie all in front of him and Holmes, Smith, Danger, Bruhn are certain starters in the rotation)…

Dempsey is really interesting (noting my bias). From what I “hear” the coaches absolutely think he will be an A grade midfleider but I am getting no indication that is a 2025 thing. The thinking is that he is now our only specicialist wingman (which is quite amazing given where he was 12 months ago) and they want that to be consolidated. In 2025 they are not going to try and develop another wingman (ie. no Duncan, Blitz, Knevitte etc) but use the “non-Dempsey” side as just a midfield rotation spot (which means we can squeeze in one more midfielder)…. My hope is Dempsey backs up his break out year and just as we are convinced he is an AA wingman - Cats will then mix it up and try him as a true mid…but maybe a couple of years away.

Appreciate the insight as always mate! As others have said, the Bruhn niggles are unfortunate to hear though.

The last couple of years have been more than adequate as a young player, but going into year 5 we really do need his endurance to build, even if it's only getting him to the 70-ish% range.

Is it debilitating in terms of his chance of playing early in the year? Or more so just that he won't really be able to progress from what he was last year?

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Agree. I think they hope Tanner is that player. And he could be but needs his body to be right. Understand he has had an interrupted pre season again which is a real shame…quickly we need to see whether he can become an A grader. I admit to bias (positive) but even I am nervous about whether he can take that next leap. What I do know is that the club coaches love him - he will get every chance…

Clark I frankly have no idea. Love the way he plays from what I have seen but just no evidence yet as to whether he is an A grader. Not saying he wont be but I just can’t tell

Bowes is interesting for me. A bit like Tanner for me in that he either makes it in the midfield or I think he will struggle. His best games (and he has had some really good ones) have been in the midfield…but is he good enough to take a spot in an A grade team? I just don’t know.

The name you didn’t mention that I hope leapfrogs everyone is Knevitt. Again I admit to a bias (I just love the group of players from 21 to 24yo)…but we need a tall midfielder and he I think can become a beast. I find it hard to see how he gets a shot (Bowes, Atkins, Danger, Guthrie all in front of him and Holmes, Smith, Danger, Bruhn are certain starters in the rotation)…

Dempsey is really interesting (noting my bias). From what I “hear” the coaches absolutely think he will be an A grade midfleider but I am getting no indication that is a 2025 thing. The thinking is that he is now our only specicialist wingman (which is quite amazing given where he was 12 months ago) and they want that to be consolidated. In 2025 they are not going to try and develop another wingman (ie. no Duncan, Blitz, Knevitte etc) but use the “non-Dempsey” side as just a midfield rotation spot (which means we can squeeze in one more midfielder)…. My hope is Dempsey backs up his break out year and just as we are convinced he is an AA wingman - Cats will then mix it up and try him as a true mid…but maybe a couple of years away.

Praying Ollie to be the man

I hadn't mentioned Knevitt because I'm not sure where to use him. He has too many attributes to not find some way to use him i just don't know what that is

 

[CHAWKTS]

Appreciate the insight as always mate! As others have said, the Bruhn niggles are unfortunate to hear though.

The last couple of years have been more than adequate as a young player, but going into year 5 we really do need his endurance to build, even if it's only getting him to the 70-ish% range.

Is it debilitating in terms of his chance of playing early in the year? Or more so just that he won't really be able to progress from what he was last year?

On Tanner I am getting a postive vibe - in terms of it being not much of a set back. But my cynical nature is worried (to be clear that is not fact but my “feeling”). I THINK it is a foot issue (hence my worry) but everything I am being told is to not worry and that it won’t impact 2025…. Of course the more I am told that the more I worry! I really like Tanner and whilst I understand some of the concerns around his game I am very invested in him proving that concern wrong and becoming an A grader…I just don’t want niggles to hinder that. Let’s see

 

[CatToTheFuture]

On Tanner I am getting a postive vibe - in terms of it being not much of a set back. But my cynical nature is worried (to be clear that is not fact but my “feeling”). I THINK it is a foot issue (hence my worry) but everything I am being told is to not worry and that it won’t impact 2025…. Of course the more I am told that the more I worry! I really like Tanner and whilst I understand some of the concerns around his game I am very invested in him proving that concern wrong and becoming an A grader…I just don’t want niggles to hinder that. Let’s see

That's good news but also not ideal in that such a set back probably hurts his ability to do endurance building training.

 

[Cataholic]

On Tanner I am getting a postive vibe - in terms of it being not much of a set back. But my cynical nature is worried (to be clear that is not fact but my “feeling”). I THINK it is a foot issue (hence my worry) but everything I am being told is to not worry and that it won’t impact 2025…. Of course the more I am told that the more I worry! I really like Tanner and whilst I understand some of the concerns around his game I am very invested in him proving that concern wrong and becoming an A grader…I just don’t want niggles to hinder that. Let’s see

'everything I am being told'

That's the greatest worry for mine. The club is not known for being honest about injuries.

So yeah, the more they say it the less I'd be inclined to believe it.

 

[Mr Meow]

'everything I am being told'

That's the greatest worry for mine. The club is not known for being honest about injuries.

So yeah, the more they say it the less I'd be inclined to believe it.

If CHAWKTS spoke to his usual sources and they said "we're not going to talk about it" or "actually he's really in a lot of trouble" I'd be even more concerned, to be fair.

 

[Kobe Gryant]

'everything I am being told'

That's the greatest worry for mine. The club is not known for being honest about injuries.

So yeah, the more they say it the less I'd be inclined to believe it.

It's a long list, but I'm personally scarred by the Guthrie '23 scenario. Went from 'managed' as a late scratching to out for 17 weeks.

Part of me is expecting news of an amputation in the coming weeks for Tanner.