Opinion Best 25 under 25 (FoxSports)

[Mr Meow]

Thanks for the admission Walshy. We can wrap it up now.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

I said coaches votes you numpty.

Who had more coaches votes? Holmes.

Who had more games picking up coaches votes? Holmes.

Walsh has only had one season better than Holmes' 2024: Max was the best player for the team who pushed the premiers all the way.

You're the one crying over the reality that Walsh hasn't been elite since 2021. As a 24 year old that's poor. He looked like he could've been a future superstar.

Add any reaction if you admit to having a pea brain.

Id be willing to put my account on the line that if Walsh gets through a full pre season without his back going on him he has a better year than Holmes in 2025.

Hell I'd be willing to do the same for Butters as both are simply better footballers.

Holmes has never had a season the equivalent of either players best and sits a wrung below the top liners of the group listed.

The stats back that up too.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Still, you had Holmes in your end of season AA team and no mention of Walsh.

Further, Holmes ended up with more coaches votes in a harder position to get them, while 2 years younger.

Walsh was terrific 2021. He had a hot patch end of 2023 and for his first batch of games 2024. Otherwise just very low impact relative to the stars of the comp.

I've no problem calling Butters a great H&A player. He's so far been a poor finals performer and in our game, finals are pretty important.

If Holmes was serving up Walsh 2022-2024 performances or Butters 2023-2024 finals in a couple of years, I'd be disappointed. His injury while having a sensational prelim was the biggest disappointment of recent times for Geelong.

Once again add the laugh emoji if you consider yourself a moron, or any others if you're an angry troll.

I did, Holmes was playing the easiest role in footy. An unaccountable half back distributor who barely looks to defend. There was less competition for spots there than this years absolutely stacked AA midfield which Walsh would have been trying to break into.

If Walsh and Butters are the flawed players you claim them to be then you should have no quarrels putting it on the line. I've laid out my terms, statistically both had better seasons than Holmes in 2024 and they'll both do it again in 2025 if injury doesn't totally derail their campaigns.

Holmes is very good player, but he's a mile behind the very top echelon of players in the league. A tier both Butters and Walsh have been in for brief stages of their young careers.

 

[Mr Meow]

I did, Holmes was playing the easiest role in footy. An unaccountable half back distributor who barely looks to defend. There was less competition for spots there than this years absolutely stacked AA midfield which Walsh would have been trying to break into.

If Walsh and Butters are the flawed players you claim them to be then you should have no quarrels putting it on the line. I've laid out my terms, statistically both had better seasons than Holmes in 2024 and they'll both do it again in 2025 if injury doesn't totally derail their campaigns.

Holmes is very good player, but he's a mile behind the very top echelon of players in the league. A tier both Butters and Walsh have been in for brief stages of their young careers.

You still seem insistent on trying to pretend Walsh had a better 2024 than 22 year old Holmes, which is utterly hilarious. Walsh absolutely fell in a heap and wasn't even in Carlton's top 5 performers for the second half of the season. 3rd overall in the BnF in a trash EF laughing stock team, compared to Holmes winning the BnF for one of the best 3 teams in the comp, ahead of the AA CHF. Even no namer Newman was ahead of Walsh from a back flank. You still haven't been able to show that Walsh had more coaches votes in 2024 by the way. I'm waiting.

I was also unaware that a half back, wingman, midfielder utility was the easiest position to play in footy. That must explain why there's so many of them, and a dozen who outperformed Holmes for coaches votes in 2024.

Your Walsh praise only fits for the debut through to 2021 progression. Stop pretending that he hasn't declined substantially since, which is actually very rare for a 21-24 year old timeline.

Butters has proven all he has to in H&A. We'll have to wait for finals to see if he finally addresses his demons on the big stage. Holmes has had no issue in those bigger games so far, and he's only 22.

 

[Mr Meow]

I did, Holmes was playing the easiest role in footy. An unaccountable half back distributor who barely looks to defend. There was less competition for spots there than this years absolutely stacked AA midfield which Walsh would have been trying to break into.

If Walsh and Butters are the flawed players you claim them to be then you should have no quarrels putting it on the line. I've laid out my terms, statistically both had better seasons than Holmes in 2024 and they'll both do it again in 2025 if injury doesn't totally derail their campaigns.

Holmes is very good player, but he's a mile behind the very top echelon of players in the league. A tier both Butters and Walsh have been in for brief stages of their young careers.

By the way why would you be comparing statistics for pure midfielders with a defender/wingman/midfielder utility? You could easily look at things like metres gained that favour the other positions Holmes played. Coaches votes and BnF placement make more sense, where Holmes more than held up. Especially when you consider the finals flops of the other two compared to Holmes easily being Geelong's best player in both finals (until prelim injury). All while being two years younger.

Add a reaction if you agree. Don't let me down.

 

[Lingsface]

1-Daicos
2-Serong
3-Butters
4-Gulden
5-Sheezel
6-W Ashcroft
7-Holmes
8-Warner
9-Green
10- Newcombe
11- Walsh
12-JUH
13- I Rankine
14- L Jackson
15- S Darcy
16- JHF
17- Anderson
18- B King
19- K Pickett
20- H Young
21-H Reid
22- M Rowell
23- M King
24- O Dempsey
25- Lohmann

Mainly basing on what they have done but a decent consideration of what their potential is as well.

 

[Fadge]

Gulden, Warner, Ashcroft, Sheezel, Walsh, Butters all big chances to have better years in 2025 than Daicos.

There's always a chance one, some or all of them have a better 2025 than Daicos.

But if they did, it would be the first time any of them would have outperformed Daicos since his rookie year in 2022.

Don't you love December? The time of the year when all Carlton supporters are hoping/praying 'next year is going to be different'....

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

You still seem insistent on trying to pretend Walsh had a better 2024 than 22 year old Holmes, which is utterly hilarious. Walsh absolutely fell in a heap and wasn't even in Carlton's top 5 performers for the second half of the season. 3rd overall in the BnF in a trash EF laughing stock team, compared to Holmes winning the BnF for one of the best 3 teams in the comp, ahead of the AA CHF. Even no namer Newman was ahead of Walsh from a back flank. You still haven't been able to show that Walsh had more coaches votes in 2024 by the way. I'm waiting.

I was also unaware that a half back, wingman, midfielder utility was the easiest position to play in footy. That must explain why there's so many of them, and a dozen who outperformed Holmes for coaches votes in 2024.

Your Walsh praise only fits for the debut through to 2021 progression. Stop pretending that he hasn't declined substantially since, which is actually very rare for a 21-24 year old timeline.

Butters has proven all he has to in H&A. We'll have to wait for finals to see if he finally addresses his demons on the big stage. Holmes has had no issue in those bigger games so far, and he's only 22.

By the way why would you be comparing statistics for pure midfielders with a defender/wingman/midfielder utility? You could easily look at things like metres gained that favour the other positions Holmes played. Coaches votes and BnF placement make more sense, where Holmes more than held up. Especially when you consider the finals flops of the other two compared to Holmes easily being Geelong's best player in both finals (until prelim injury). All while being two years younger.

Add a reaction if you agree. Don't let me down.

There's no point in responding any further to such vitriolic delusion . If you truly believe Holmes the better player put it on the line for 2025 and take the bet. You won't because you know he's not but I'd like to hear why you'll chicken out of it anyway.

 

[Cyclops]

In sheezels defence he’s played 2 afl seasons

1: in his debut season he got more possessions than any other first year player in history

2: in his second season he made the all Aust squad, ranked in the top 10 players in the comp, broke the record for youngest 20 contested possession games, highest % of score involvements etc.

If played for any other club he’d be an all Aust already

Just play devil's advocate, we'd all get touches in the North back half, and AA has occasional bloopers. I'm not so much of a stats man as some game styles max out a players possies etc etc.

That said, Sheezel passes ths eyeball test, absolutely terrifying prospect, and is deservedly lauded for both what he is already doing and what he will almost certainly become.

I have to agree he doesn't get the attention of a Daicos or an Ashcroft, but even so hes rightly placed in that bracket.

Bit more physical than Daics or Ashcroft, I think he might have more of a two way game. I wouldn't swap them (nor would you) but be nice to have both!

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

There's always a chance one, some or all of them have a better 2025 than Daicos.

But if they did, it would be the first time any of them would have outperformed Daicos since his rookie year in 2022.

Don't you love December? The time of the year when all Carlton supporters are hoping/praying 'next year is going to be different'....

What month would you rather we do it Fadge?

 

[Worm4]

There's no point in responding any further to such vitriolic delusion . If you truly believe Holmes the better player put it on the line for 2025 and take the bet. You won't because you know he's not but I'd like to hear why you'll chicken out of it anyway.

One is an All Australian, the other plays at Geelong.

 

[Arr0w]

There's always a chance one, some or all of them have a better 2025 than Daicos.

But if they did, it would be the first time any of them would have outperformed Daicos since his rookie year in 2022.

At the same age, Sheezel's 2024 has the rabbit covered in his 2022 season

Fact

Don't you love December? The time of the year when all Carlton supporters are hoping/praying 'next year is going to be different'....

Predictable response based on posters team

 

[Chip Scab1]

Serong
4th Brownlow
4th AFLCA
3rd Midfielder by AA
But can’t crack the the top 5 u25 according to Johnny gotnoidea

Yeah! I'd have him at 2, but if they did the list on draft picks required to take them away from their current club, I'd have him at 5. Darcy IMO, would be rightfully up there.

 

[blueiris]

1-Daicos
2-Serong
3-Butters
4-Gulden
5-Sheezel
6-W Ashcroft
7-Holmes
8-Warner
9-Green
10- Newcombe
11- Walsh
12-JUH
13- I Rankine
14- L Jackson
15- S Darcy
16- JHF
17- Anderson
18- B King
19- K Pickett
20- H Young
21-H Reid
22- M Rowell
23- M King
24- O Dempsey
25- Lohmann

Mainly basing on what they have done but a decent consideration of what their potential is as well.

Lohmann kicked 50 goals this season in he's first full season the kid is seriously underrated

 

[BIGHAWK23]

Proof Swans’ era won’t end soon; three clubs totally missing — Top 25 AFL players under 25

Proof Swans’ era won’t end soon; three clubs totally missing — Top 25 AFL players under 25 ranked

www.foxsports.com.au

Has to be one of the worst "lists" I've seen in some time.

Matt Rowell is nowhere near Will Ashcroft. Not even in the same galaxy.

And why do they always put Anderson and Rowell together?.. they aren't linked as some double DNA blob.

Jovanovski is a muppet

Worse in person

 

[Fadge]

At the same age, Sheezel's 2024 has [Daicos] covered in his 2022 season

Let's see if Sheezel can continue to elevate his game as a 20 year old, to be in the discussion as the best player in the game, contend for all the game's individual awards, and be the most influential player in a team that contends for, and wins, premierships - in the same way Daicos has done since he's been 20.

I hope he can, Sheezel's a great kid.

 

[Arr0w]

Let's see if Sheezel can continue to elevate his game as a 20 year old, to be in the discussion as the best player in the game, contend for all the game's individual awards, and be the most influential player in a team that contends for, and wins, premierships - in the same way Daicos has done since he's been 20.

I hope he can, Sheezel's a great kid.

Sheezel has him covered for coaches and brownlow votes at the same age

Swap teams and Sheezel would likely be a premiership player too

Next few years will be interesting

 

[Worm4]

Lohmann kicked 50 goals this season in he's first full season the kid is seriously underrated

There's some serious gravy on that 50, surely

 

[Mr Meow]

There's no point in responding any further to such vitriolic delusion . If you truly believe Holmes the better player put it on the line for 2025 and take the bet. You won't because you know he's not but I'd like to hear why you'll chicken out of it anyway.

Once again you prove you can't engage in any sort of fact driven football discussion and in fact have had no answer for any of my points. Resorting to a playground bet is right up your alley. Nice to see you tapping out on discussion again after failing to put anything whatsoever coherent together.

P.S "Vitriolic Delusion" would be a great name for your band - maybe music is more of your thing than debate.

 

[SplintWhisky]

Surprising that absolutely no tall defenders made this list.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Once again you prove you can't engage in any sort of fact driven football discussion and in fact have had no answer for any of my points. Resorting to a playground bet is right up your alley. Nice to see you tapping out on discussion again after failing to put anything whatsoever coherent together.

P.S "Vitriolic Delusion" would be a great name for your band - maybe music is more of your thing than debate.

Fact - Through the regular season Sam Walsh received 69 coaches votes in 19 games played at an average of 3.63 votes per game. Max Holmes received 63 in 23 games at an average of 2.73.
Accounting for finals those averages are... SW - 3.45, MH - 2.92

Fact - Sam Walsh received 16 Brownlow Votes (14 below his best). Max Holmes received 10 (his all time record, previous best being 3)

Fact - Max Holmes has never made an All Australian team, never won the Rising Star award, never won a Gary Ayres medal and neve placed in the top 5 of the AFLCA, Brownlow Medal, or MVP. Sam Walsh has done all of the above.

Fact - Sam Walsh and Zak Butters are to date, better and more accomplished players than Max Holmes.

So far Holmes career achievement is winning the Grand Final sprint.

 

[Milanista28]

fwiw Holmes > Walsh, for me.

 

[Oraaaaazio]

Lohmann kicked 50 goals this season in he's first full season the kid is seriously underrated

He kicked 36 and played 27 games... so not close to 50.

 

[Fadge]

fwiw Holmes > Walsh, for me.

#metoo

Reckon it will be pretty comfortably going forward.

 

[Worm4]

#metoo

Reckon it will be pretty comfortably going forward.

You would. You have made it pretty clear that you don't rate any Carlton players