Bluemour Discussion Thread XV - Facts Not Welcome

[Funk]

I dont really like to seem disrespectful to the Suns, but I wonder if they have any idea what they need or who to pick with all those picks. Their short history is simply one of lurching from crisis to crisis under intense scrutiny.

I think the Suns have got some smart guys running the club now.

They're starting by shipping out every single player that doesn't want to be there.

A very good place to start.

They have a plan in place (like we did) that may not make sense to people outside (just like us trading out Hendo, Yarran etc).

They're focussing on getting the basics in place first.

I hope they start making progress soon - no-one benefits from having completely shit teams in the competition. Just one "waste of time" match every week.

 

[The Bighouse]

I'm hoping we pick up Hugh Goddard as a DFA, I was a little bit shocked when I heard he was delisted by the Saints. He's a big fella who can take a mark, has a decent left peg and isn't afraid to take on the tackler and go for a bit of a run. With Rowe and ASOS both off the list you would have to think that we have a mature bodied key defender lined up and I would prefer Goddard to Kieran Collins.

We have four senior and three rookie spots to fill so if our draft picks remain as is I would be happy with the following:
-Walsh at Pick 1
-Wil Hickmott and Mitch Grigg with later picks (doesn't have to be Mitch Grigg but a similar "break glass in case of emergency" type mature bodied midfielder is needed otherwise if Cripps gets injured it would be a disaster)
-Rookie list Ben Silvagni, Jed Lamb and Sam Fisher

^^^

Just on the list numbers, we can alter our split with our senior & rookie numbers as we see & our TPP fits, 1yr vs 2yr contracts differential from the draft & list management scenarios for next year. Just wondering if we could go above the current 40 on the seniors if we go 4 (or 5, #95 smokey) at the draft + a KPD DFA.

Would like to see another quality ball user/pacey/defender brought in as well, which may have to be at the expense of bringing Jed back.

 

[Mr Blonde]

^^^

Just on the list numbers, we can alter our split with our senior & rookie numbers as we see & our TPP fits, 1yr vs 2yr contracts differential from the draft & list management scenarios for next year. Just wondering if we could go above the current 40 on the seniors if we go 4 (or 5, #95 smokey) at the draft + a KPD DFA.

Would like to see another quality ball user/pacey/defender brought in as well, which may have to be at the expense of bringing Jed back.

I like Lamb but I'm not optimistic about him being on the list next year, he is one I feel for a bit because he has had a pretty tough upbringing.

Just out of interest, do you know what the maximum number of senior listed players you can have on the list is? I thought it wasn't able to go above 40.

 

[beowulf]

I like Lamb but I'm not optimistic about him being on the list next year, he is one I feel for a bit because he has had a pretty tough upbringing.

Just out of interest, do you know what the maximum number of senior listed players you can have on the list is? I thought it wasn't able to go above 40.

That is correct at the moment. The maximum is 40 on the main list and 4 Cat A rookies. You can have as many Cat B rookies as you can afford, or, more likely, attract.

 

[The Bighouse]

I like Lamb but I'm not optimistic about him being on the list next year, he is one I feel for a bit because he has had a pretty tough upbringing.

Just out of interest, do you know what the maximum number of senior listed players you can have on the list is? I thought it wasn't able to go above 40.

I asked the Q somewhere else, if we could go to 44. Doesn’t matter as much now with them not having to be nominated to play 1’s, mid-season upgrade or LTI, it’s only cap space & contract length & getting the desired player slipping through to the RD (bonus of having pick #1 applies).

Sure I’d seen a club with only 2 rookies listed but could be wrong. We’ve gone from 6 to 5 to 4 in recent seasons IIRC.

 

[blue healer]

Another thing to take into account is just how much talent we've brought in over the last 3 drafts.
9 first rounders!
Assuming we use #1 this year, we will have SOS's highest rated player for 4 drafts in a row (Weitering, Setterfield, Dow, presumably Walsh).

We need quality, not quantity.
So I think SOS should just take Walsh. Happy to trust him, though.

As a point of interest, in 2015 (the year SOS took over) we had 14 former first round draft picks on our list and we know how that year finished.

I agree that what we've done over the last 3 years has been promising but many of those nine still have a way to go before we can categorically say we've nailed it.

 

[Stamos]

As a point of interest, in 2015 (the year SOS took over) we had 14 former first round draft picks on our list and we know how that year finished.

That wasn't my point though, these 9 have been brought in over the last 3 drafts. So our recruitment strategy adjusts to fit our overall list management.

 

[The Bighouse]

That is correct at the moment. The maximum is 40 on the main list and 4 Cat A rookies. You can have as many Cat B rookies as you can afford, or, more likely, attract.

Looks about right re: 40 MAX.
I may have had the discrepancy of 2 rookies (4 vs 6) stuck upstairs.

Thought there was limitations on the type of Cat B’s (def is for Irish), Jimmae had posted somewhere recently on this. Maybe the Owies thread.

 

[Ruckus]

Garbage. Fake news. Not true.

Not having a go at you here dlb99 (this isn't your doing!), but I wish the term 'fake news' would die in a fire.

This Shiel thing isn't 'news' - it may be hearsay, rumour, innuendo, misunderstanding, or a bald-faced lie, but it's not news - real, fake or otherwise. The term 'fake news' is redundant, and its cultural penetration and all-too-common usage, given its popular origin is that vile orange man, is a blight on us all.

/rant!

 

[thylacine60]

I think the Suns have got some smart guys running the club now.

They're starting by shipping out every single player that doesn't want to be there.

A very good place to start.

They have a plan in place (like we did) that may not make sense to people outside (just like us trading out Hendo, Yarran etc).

They're focussing on getting the basics in place first.

I hope they start making progress soon - no-one benefits from having completely shit teams in the competition. Just one "waste of time" match every week.

someone has to be on the bottom and they will be there for more than one reason - the obvious being they can't kick more than the rest of the competition very often - this "the competition is better off when so and so are strong" is not something I agree with - the cyclical nature of success and failure the afl so earnestly craves is yet to come to fruition and if unfettered fa and powerful clubs pillaging less successful clubs keeps happening, I doubt it ever will - contrived ladder, fixture, drafting and trades are contrived

 

[Hands On]

Did I hear correctly this morning that we could've got Shiel with a future 1st, but SOS thought it was too much??

Surely not??

If true good on him. when you're are the 5th best midfielder in your team you are not worth a future first that should fall around the 3 to 6 mark .

 

[Hands On]

someone has to be on the bottom and they will be there for more than one reason - the obvious being they can't kick more than the rest of the competition very often - this "the competition is better off when so and so are strong" is not something I agree with - the cyclical nature of success and failure the afl so earnestly craves is yet to come to fruition and if unfettered fa and powerful clubs pillaging less successful clubs keeps happening, I doubt it ever will - contrived ladder, fixture, drafting and trades are contrived

In a nut shell, Spot On!!!

 

[BLUEALLTHRU]

Despite what Walsh says now about being happy to go anywhere, things change. Especially if after 8 years you are in a worse spot than when you started.

Can confirm.

 

[Hands On]

We also seem to forget that Kennedy is a 2 months younger than Charlie Curnow.

Some Carlton supporters seem to think he was a mature age recruit, kids a baby.

I’m big fan, think he will be huge over the next decade for us (not Judd or Kelly huge, but a massive upgrade on Ed as the 3rd-5th midfielder in the rotations)

Give him time, I can see Swans Kennedy in him.

 

[BLUEALLTHRU]

A fit Kennedy makes a huge difference for us.

Wouldn't know..

 

[BLUEALLTHRU]

someone has to be on the bottom and they will be there for more than one reason - the obvious being they can't kick more than the rest of the competition very often - this "the competition is better off when so and so are strong" is not something I agree with - the cyclical nature of success and failure the afl so earnestly craves is yet to come to fruition and if unfettered fa and powerful clubs pillaging less successful clubs keeps happening, I doubt it ever will - contrived ladder, fixture, drafting and trades are contrived

Excellent post and after 70000 odd you were overdue!

 

[OnceWeWereKings]

Excellent post and after 70000 odd you were overdue!

He posts like I play golf.

 

[thylacine60]

lost in the rough...........

 

[Blue and Blue]

I think the Suns have got some smart guys running the club now.

They're starting by shipping out every single player that doesn't want to be there.

A very good place to start.

They have a plan in place (like we did) that may not make sense to people outside (just like us trading out Hendo, Yarran etc).

They're focussing on getting the basics in place first.

I hope they start making progress soon - no-one benefits from having completely shit teams in the competition. Just one "waste of time" match every week.

Yeah I think so too really. I was enjoying the fact its easy to pick on them as the only mob worse than us..lol...we need an easybeat. Trouble is they beat us far too often even while being so hopeless.

 

[Blue and Blue]

this "the competition is better off when so and so are strong" is not something I agree with -

unless its us right....I mean theres always an exception....

but I agree with you entirely

 

[footyfan1978]

I think the Suns have got some smart guys running the club now.

They're starting by shipping out every single player that doesn't want to be there.

A very good place to start.

They have a plan in place (like we did) that may not make sense to people outside (just like us trading out Hendo, Yarran etc).

They're focussing on getting the basics in place first.

I hope they start making progress soon - no-one benefits from having completely shit teams in the competition. Just one "waste of time" match every week.

Agreed. Their guy Cochrane is a bit out there but is passionate about football and making it work up there.

Mark Evans one of best for role he doing.

Coach Dew is young and keen and knows what he got himself into, well lets hope he fully realised.

That is at least three important roles filled by right type of people for what is needed.

Let's hope list manger and others are in it for the long haul.

Brisbane Bears took from 1987 to around mid 90's to become a proper club.

They were lucky people like Michael McLean, Andrew Bews, Roger Merrett, Adrian Fletcher and Craig Lambert were good football people in twilight of their career that guided the young talent like Voss, Akermanis, Ashcroft to have a club to build on when they all finished. I hope guys like Miles going up there help Harbrow, Rory Thompson's, Rischetelli Sam Day and David Swallow set the standards of being a professional football club. It really starts now for them as a club. First step from removing those not wanting to be there and looks like they done that. Got some mature hungry footballers up there from other clubs and now at the draft they have to find their version of Voss and other talented youngsters to build quality for the future. Pick 2, 3, 6, 24 and 29 is a nice start. This is their ground zero like ours was at end of 2015 season. So glad we got SOS, Brodie, Brad Lloyd, Liddle and Russell in place for off field football roles. Hope Gold Coast keep doing similar. Brisbane also clearly been on right track for at least last two seasons. Beams going is a small set back like when we lost Gibbs but they still pushing forward.

 

[bergs]

Question, Could we delist a player, and let another team pick him up and just happen to do a pick swap with that said team ? Do they goto normal/preseason draft ?


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[dlb99]

If true good on him. when you're are the 5th best midfielder in your team you are not worth a future first that should fall around the 3 to 6 mark .

Except, there is every indication that he did offer next year's 1st round pick.

What SOS refused was to use this year's number 1 pick for Shiel. And, quite rightly so.

 

[passmark]

Question, Could we delist a player, and let another team pick him up and just happen to do a pick swap with that said team ? Do they goto normal/preseason draft ?


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That's a very intriguing idea.

I don't see why not. I suppose there's a risk somebody else takes them.

 

[footyfan1978]

Question, Could we delist a player, and let another team pick him up and just happen to do a pick swap with that said team ? Do they goto normal/preseason draft ?

Guess in theory it could happen but why would clubs just not have done trade for same player ?

Sam Rowe is now de-listed free agent. Club de-lists him and Gold Coast pick him up as de-listed free agent. If Gold Coast want to swap pick 77 of ours for a pick in 60 I am ok with that....