Rumour Bluemour Discussion XXXVI - 'Loopy' Season in full swing

[CarmenSandiego]

Paying top dollar for an elite HBF in the hope we turn them into a midfielder.

Feel like I've seen this movie before.

 

[Red Bull]

Not sure Austin is the one fixated on Houston.

Voss is a very strong character and he’s got form …

 

[DangerousD]

Pick 11 in my opinion should not be traded under any circumstance- the 2024 draft is potentially the last uncompromised draft for the next 3-4 years.

That pick should be used on the best available talent that the recruitment department has identified.

We need to as a club start looking within for improvement. Granted Houston is an A grade dependable half back flanker but do we sell the farm for an another HBF like we have previously done before all ie- Saad and Williams?

My personal opinion is that I would back Elijah Hollands to play that same Houston role. I genuinely think he has the skill set to be a dominant and creative rebounder across half back.

I would also be making contact with Luke Hodge and sending Hollands up to Brisbane for a block of the preseason ( assuming Hodge would be available/interested) to obtain exclusive 1 on 1 mentorship and positional coaching .


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Why would the 25 and 26 drafts be compromised?

 

[DangerousD]

Failing at something in the past, shouldn’t mean you don’t try something in the future.

Saying we failed with Williams so never again try a similar tactic is crazy, imagine never using a first round pick because we had several busts. Or never trading for a player because we have had a few busts.

 

[tragic]

Failing at something in the past, shouldn’t mean you don’t try something in the future.

Saying we failed with Williams so never again try a similar tactic is crazy, imagine never using a first round pick because we had several busts. Or never trading for a player because we have had a few busts.

Ever heard of the definition of insanity.....Voss might have a nickname relating to this

 

[HarryFlashman]

Failing at something in the past, shouldn’t mean you don’t try something in the future.

Saying we failed with Williams so never again try a similar tactic is crazy, imagine never using a first round pick because we had several busts. Or never trading for a player because we have had a few busts.

Making a mistake & then doubling down to repeat it when there’s other options available is foolishness.

u learn from the past & apply the knowledge to help shape future decisions.
No one is saying u never make a decision again just because u got one wrong/turned out poorly.

You have to pretty ****ing stupid to make the same mistake continually that u can turn elite hbf into a midfielder.

We have form here, it’s not a one off, I still don’t rate Doc as mid (stats back it to).

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Houston and Williams are in totally different situations. Williams arrived while we sucked and he came in fat and unfit chasing a paycheck.

Houston would be coming in looking to win a flag.

He'd be a very good addition, just a matter of whether his acquisition is more beneficial than some other possible options

 

[RAPPA]

Making a mistake & then doubling down to repeat it when there’s other options available is foolishness.

u learn from the past & apply the knowledge to help shape future decisions.
No one is saying u never make a decision again just because u got one wrong/turned out poorly.

You have to pretty ****ing stupid to make the same mistake continually that u can turn elite hbf into a midfielder.

We have form here, it’s not a one off, I still don’t rate Doc as mid (stats back it to).

The only crazy, far out thing we haven’t tried is injecting speed into the midfield.

TDK’s dynamism has been a breath of fresh air and gave us a real point of difference for a midfield group that largely plays a similar way.

 

[bmaurizio]

Houston adds stability and composure to our defense releasing Saad to exploit his speed.
Dan is a younger, faster , far better kick than Newman, without brain fades too.
Haynes also assists Weitering , allowing us to distribute the ball more effectively to the midfield and forwards

 

[BigFrizz36]

Failing at something in the past, shouldn’t mean you don’t try something in the future.

Saying we failed with Williams so never again try a similar tactic is crazy, imagine never using a first round pick because we had several busts. Or never trading for a player because we have had a few busts.

It's remarkable that people throw the Williams example up without any context.

We recruited Zac in 2020 as a free agent. Hence no draft cost . As a result you generally have to pay more in salary.

In 2019 Zac played 24 games including a grand final for the Giants and had an exceptional year. Due to injuries in a star studded midfield he played mid in a close win over the pies in a prelim and was close to best on. It was not entirely unreasonable to believe that he could become a full time mid.

We were hardly a destination club in 2020. It's not like we were being over run by players beating down the door to play for us. We would sack our coach at the end of 2021.

Despite what Mitch Cleary might say nobody knows what Zac's salary is. It might also have been front ended or back ended. To hear Mitch Cleary say that he's on close to X amount this year us just pure speculation.

By all means people can deem the move as a failure retrospectively. But the vast majority on here at the time were very keen for the reasons outlined above.

 

[bmaurizio]

Jack Martin

21

Jack Martin

Age

29

Ht

186cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.2

4star

K

10.0

4star

HB

6.3

4star

M

4.9

5star

T

3.7

5star

G

0.9

4star

D

14.9

4star

K

7.9

3star

HB

7.0

4star

M

4.3

4star

T

3.6

4star

G

1.1

5star

D

8.2

2star

K

4.6

2star

HB

3.6

3star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.0

4star

G

0.6

3star

too was a blunder similare issues hugely talented but lacked interest & professionalism in some areas and injury prone.
Again a poor recruiting decision and unfortunately Zac Williams career at the Blues although with slightly different circumstances may well end as Jack Martin

21

Jack Martin

Age

29

Ht

186cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.2

4star

K

10.0

4star

HB

6.3

4star

M

4.9

5star

T

3.7

5star

G

0.9

4star

D

14.9

4star

K

7.9

3star

HB

7.0

4star

M

4.3

4star

T

3.6

4star

G

1.1

5star

D

8.2

2star

K

4.6

2star

HB

3.6

3star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.0

4star

G

0.6

3star

did generally a disappointment and costly waste of resources and time.

 

[Inspector Closseau]

The question has been asked.
They won't trade him this year, and he is very likely to re-sign next year. If not he will be a free agent.

With the amount of cap space opening up, young talent coming in and better luck with injuries, I think the tigers will be able to retain him and sell him the vision.

Expect them to go very hard for draft picks for this draft, they are not interested in futures. Then very hard for FA's next year.

Is Petracca being chased because I believe he would elevate us more than anyone else being pursued?

Compare our current midfield to the GF Teams, or any one of the other Finalists - Geelong might even be better.

And it seems NOW is the time to act because next year the team he barracked for will have currency.

 

[Arr0w]

Not sure Austin is the one fixated on Houston.

Not many list managers are that interested in the now

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

I don’t get the logic of Newman being elite but Houston being an amazing get - same size, same position but Houston is a game changer? How does that math work?

Interesting stat - in the 5 games Newman had the most possessions, we won 1 of them (against port and his 5th highest disposals)

Think it’s flawed logic all the way around, KPD/Small forward/ Quick mid should be the focus.
Not a position we have coverage and young depth/talent

Very simple.

1. He is a better ball user, less prone to blunders too.
2. He is bigger - 8kg or so.
3. He's considerably quicker.
4. He's 4.33 years younger.
5. He's at or near the peak of his powers now and will stay in that window for a few years.
6. He's very durable.
7. He's a much better contested mark.
8. He kicks a few goals.



Newman's far from a slouch and had a ripping start to 2023, but his senior career is drawing to a close...

 

[Arr0w]

Houston and Williams are in totally different situations. Williams arrived while we sucked and he came in fat and unfit chasing a paycheck.

Houston would be coming in looking to win a flag.

He'd be a very good addition, just a matter of whether his acquisition is more beneficial than some other possible options

One conditional, the other not

 

[Arr0w]

The only crazy, far out thing we haven’t tried is injecting speed into the midfield.

* board

 

[mochacinolatte]

We chased Williams cause we were desperate to turn him into a midfielder when we lost on Shiel, Cogs and Kelly lol..

 

[goreds]

Is Petracca being chased because I believe he would elevate us more than anyone else being pursued?

Compare our current midfield to the GF Teams, or any one of the other Finalists - Geelong might even be better.

And it seems NOW is the time to act because next year the team he barracked for will have currency.

 

[RPCB]

We chased Williams cause we were desperate to turn him into a midfielder when we lost on Shiel, Cogs and Kelly lol..

If only we lost out on Williams as well.

 

[BlueTongue]

Making a mistake & then doubling down to repeat it when there’s other options available is foolishness.

u learn from the past & apply the knowledge to help shape future decisions.
No one is saying u never make a decision again just because u got one wrong/turned out poorly.

You have to pretty ****ing stupid to make the same mistake continually that u can turn elite hbf into a midfielder.

We have form here, it’s not a one off, I still don’t rate Doc as mid (stats back it to).

Hmmm, 'Learnings' and 'Doubling Down'... where have i heard that before ...

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

He has played as a midfielder for Port before.

And I never said we should be using 11 for him either.

No he hasn't. Stints for a quarter aren't 'playing midfield'.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Having seen Sydney surgically dismantle sides with their pin point passes - I’d suggest you can’t have too many elite kicks in your side.

Do you want them all playing half back ? Or would you prefer some in the midfield and at half forward too ? According to this place our half backs are already all elite kicks

 

[BlueJet]

No he hasn't. Stints for a quarter aren't 'playing midfield'.

Yep, if he were a genuine mid, you'd imagine that PA would be using him through there a lot more.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Do you want them all playing half back ? Or would you prefer some in the midfield and at half forward too ? According to this place our half backs are already all elite kicks

Boyd was statistically going at elite level earlier in the season.

I wouldn't call them elite, but good enough to hit targets... they'd look better if they had more options...

 

[ray8182]

It's remarkable that people throw the Williams example up without any context.

We recruited Zac in 2020 as a free agent. Hence no draft cost . As a result you generally have to pay more in salary.

In 2019 Zac played 24 games including a grand final for the Giants and had an exceptional year. Due to injuries in a star studded midfield he played mid in a close win over the pies in a prelim and was close to best on. It was not entirely unreasonable to believe that he could become a full time mid.

We were hardly a destination club in 2020. It's not like we were being over run by players beating down the door to play for us. We would sack our coach at the end of 2021.

Despite what Mitch Cleary might say nobody knows what Zac's salary is. It might also have been front ended or back ended. To hear Mitch Cleary say that he's on close to X amount this year us just pure speculation.

By all means people can deem the move as a failure retrospectively. But the vast majority on here at the time were very keen for the reasons outlined above.

I think you are missing some important context.

One of the key reasons Williams hadn’t played much midfield time at the giants is that he didn’t have the tank. The giants knew this. On top of this there were some durability issues which may only become worse with increased training loads for an attempt at midfield time.

It was a terrible decision to pay someone big midfielder money over 6 years when they hadn’t shown they had the endurance or durability for the position week in week out.

The difference between paying Jack Martin a big salary and Zac Williams a big salary is that jacks could be front loaded and wouldnt be an issue going forward. Williams salary over 6 years was always going to become an issue as some of our stars matured.

It was a ridiculously big and long contract and l hope everyone involved has learnt from the mistakes that were made.


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