Rumour Bluemour Discussion XXXVI - 'Loopy' Season in full swing

[bigblueboy]

Not many list managers are that interested in the now

Everyone in AFL clubland will argue that its the process/system, not results, that's important ... and in theory they are right.
But ultimately, it's still an incredibly superficial environment. The success of list managers, like most key roles, is judged by premierships and you'd be a brave person as a list manager to implement a strategy that doesn't take that context into consideration when your team is a contender.

 

[blues4flag]

Yep, if he were a genuine mid, you'd imagine that PA would be using him through there a lot more.

Port have an abundance of quality centre bounce mids. Butters, Rozee, JHF. Only use the 5 mids through there. Even Wines struggled to get in towards the backend of 2023. Back in this year to help balance the attacking trio alongside Drew.

 

[Opium]

We chased Williams cause we were desperate to turn him into a midfielder when we lost on Shiel, Cogs and Kelly lol..

In all honesty all 4 of them haven't hit the heights expected based on cost.

 

[Opium]

Houston adds stability and composure to our defense releasing Saad to exploit his speed.
Dan is a younger, faster , far better kick than Newman, without brain fades too.
Haynes also assists Weitering , allowing us to distribute the ball more effectively to the midfield and forwards

Dan Houston isn't quick. Not sure why everyone keeps stating this.

 

[bigblueboy]

In all honesty all 4 of them haven't hit the heights expected.

Kelly A grader
Cognilio B+
Shiel B
Williams B-

 

[Opium]

Kelly and Cognilio would be feted as stars if they played for Victorian teams. Bonafide A graders.

Since cognilio resigned he's been down on form. Injuries have played a part but he is not the same player as pre contract.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Boyd was statistically going at elite level earlier in the season.

I wouldn't call them elite, but good enough to hit targets... they'd look better if they had more options...

Yes !!!!

 

[ctwenty1]

Kelly A grader
Cognilio B+
Shiel B
Williams B-

Shiel nowhere near a B

Go ask any * supporter

 

[BlueTongue]

Everyone in AFL clubland will argue that its the process/system, not results, that's important ... and in theory they are right.
But ultimately, it's still an incredibly superficial environment. The success of list managers, like most key roles, is judged by premierships and you'd be a brave person as a list manager to implement a strategy that doesn't take that context into consideration when your team is a contender.

I don't envy Austin atm.

If Houston IS wanting to come to us, he has potentially Voss pushing hard to make it happen, needing to pick a diamond that will help address future needs with a few players getting toward the end of their careers, and/or the decision to burn a pick that will need to be used to secure talent before a compromised draft pool with Tassie coming in, and also looking to make an immediate impact with our current list before our flag window shuts.

 

[Christou2Kouta]

The way the whole free agency rules work is a disaster of perverse incentives.
It encourages gross overpayment of individuals which is problematic for the pay of the rest of the list. I'm surprised that the Players Association hasn't identified that if 6-7 individuals take up 40% of the salary cap at one club, there is much less money for the rest.

I think any uncontracted player (regardless of years of service) should be able to sign with the club of their choice. The club they are departing should receive compensation in the form of draft points (instead of specific picks) that are taken from the club that is signing them.
Note: Clubs should commence the trade period with an allocation of draft points, and only after the trade period ends should those draft points be converted into a draft order.

The compensation should be calculated based on an average of their previous and new contract and the club the player is departing should have no right to match the bid.
This would actually encourage clubs to pay incoming players enough money to lure them across but discourage them from excessive payments as that would lead to greater loss of draft points (i.e. lead to lower draft picks).

If a club wants a player but isn't willing to pay the compensatory draft points for them, then that player (if unsigned by any club) should have to go into the draft. This would encourage a player to only leave for a club that is willing to cough up the compensation points, and they would be more inclined to re-sign with their club where possible to avoid going into the draft. This way the club they are departing gets something unless the player is just not rated as anything more than an opportunistic, low-priority pick-up by all other clubs.

It's absurd that we lose Jack Martin

21

Jack Martin

Age

29

Ht

186cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.2

4star

K

10.0

4star

HB

6.3

4star

M

4.9

5star

T

3.7

5star

G

0.9

4star

D

14.9

4star

K

7.9

3star

HB

7.0

4star

M

4.3

4star

T

3.6

4star

G

1.1

5star

D

8.2

2star

K

4.6

2star

HB

3.6

3star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.0

4star

G

0.6

3star

for nothing if there are a number of clubs willing to sign him up.

 

[JustaBattler]

The way the whole free agency rules work is a disaster of perverse incentives.
It encourages gross overpayment of individuals which is problematic for the pay of the rest of the list. I'm surprised that the Players Association hasn't identified that if 6-7 individuals take up 40% of the salary cap at one club, there is much less money for the rest.

I think any uncontracted player (regardless of years of service) should be able to sign with the club of their choice. The club they are departing should receive compensation in the form of draft points (instead of specific picks) that are taken from the club that is signing them.
Note: Clubs should commence the trade period with an allocation of draft points, and only after the trade period ends should those draft points be converted into a draft order.

The compensation should be calculated based on an average of their previous and new contract and the club the player is departing should have no right to match the bid.
This would actually encourage clubs to pay incoming players enough money to lure them across but discourage them from excessive payments as that would lead to greater loss of draft points (i.e. lead to lower draft picks).

thats a good bandaid on top of a gaping wound

how about Clubs can trade any player they like any time they like to whichever Club they like - as an even simpler and more elegant solution ?

 

[Manhattanite]

Paying top dollar for an elite HBF in the hope we turn them into a midfielder.

Feel like I've seen this movie before.

Where in the world did you see it Carmen Sandiego?




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[Manhattanite]

Very simple.

1. He is a better ball user, less prone to blunders too.
2. He is bigger - 8kg or so.
3. He's considerably quicker.
4. He's 4.33 years younger.
5. He's at or near the peak of his powers now and will stay in that window for a few years.
6. He's very durable.
7. He's a much better contested mark.
8. He kicks a few goals.

View attachment 2121122

Newman's far from a slouch and had a ripping start to 2023, but his senior career is drawing to a close...

Agreed and also Newman is probably better help being the last line of defence to allow Houston and Saad to be more aggressive up ahead

Plus Cowan is the likely Newman replacement and he will also likely hang back more and not become a damaging half back




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[Christou2Kouta]

thats a good bandaid on top of a gaping wound

how about Clubs can trade any player they like any time they like to whichever Club they like - as an even simpler and more elegant solution ?

I think that's a different issue. My point is about movement of uncontracted players.

The issue of movement of contracted players is also worth examining. Should players sign a contract with a club, or with the AFL, meaning they can be traded at any time without power of veto? I doubt the players association would be happy with that but it would make for a much more interesting trade period, and allow clubs to get what they need more readily.

If the AFL proposed both changes to the players (free choice of movement for uncontracted players, but trading without veto for contracted players) I wonder if they would accept that.

 

[CJMB]

thats a good bandaid on top of a gaping wound

how about Clubs can trade any player they like any time they like to whichever Club they like - as an even simpler and more elegant solution ?

I reckon you’d see a stack of post trade period retirements, and 1 year deals, and probably the AFLPA arguing that a contract can be ended at any time by the player.

 

[Arr0w]

Everyone in AFL clubland will argue that its the process/system, not results, that's important ... and in theory they are right.
But ultimately, it's still an incredibly superficial environment. The success of list managers, like most key roles, is judged by premierships and you'd be a brave person as a list manager to implement a strategy that doesn't take that context into consideration when your team is a contender.

Hence why it is a whole club approach when it comes to list management

We shouldn't sell the farm on ready made types, nor should we invest all our capital on draftees given our list demographic

 

[BlueJet]

Port have an abundance of quality centre bounce mids. Butters, Rozee, JHF. Only use the 5 mids through there. Even Wines struggled to get in towards the backend of 2023. Back in this year to help balance the attacking trio alongside Drew.

Yes, players recruited after Houston.. (Wines aside).
You'd think that if he were a genuine top class mid, they would have allocated the resources elsewhere.
He could also be used as a rotational piece to get his ball use around the stoppage but to date, he hasn't.

 

[carlton_99]

Yep, if he were a genuine mid, you'd imagine that PA would be using him through there a lot more.

When you have Butters, Rozee, JHF, Drew, Wines and Boak over the last few years it doesn't leave a lot of CBA minutes for others.

 

[Jacks Seething Rage]

Agreed and also Newman is probably better help being the last line of defence to allow Houston and Saad to be more aggressive up ahead

Plus Cowan is the likely Newman replacement and he will also likely hang back more and not become a damaging half back




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Newman is a barn find. Very few k's on the clock for age and playing his best footy.

I'd expect him to be a contributor through to season 2026.

 

[BlueJet]

When you have Butters, Rozee, JHF, Drew, Wines and Boak over the last few years it doesn't leave a lot of CBA minutes for others.

Yes, players recruited after Houston.. (Wines aside).
You'd think that if he were a genuine top class mid, they would have allocated the resources elsewhere.
He could also be used as a rotational piece to get his ball use around the stoppage but to date, he hasn't.

 

[blue healer]

Has Huston even indicated that he wants a trade officially?

Last I saw was that he wanted to stay at Port and for those saying Port may want him out to get Perryman in, why would you want to lose a two time AA for someone that I think is no more than a good ordinary footballer?

 

[BlueJet]

Has Huston even indicated that he wants a trade officially?

Last I saw was that he wanted to stay at Port and for those saying Port may want him out to get Perryman in, why would you want to lose a two time AA for someone that I think is no more than a good ordinary footballer?

Yep but that he's happy to stay if a deal can't be done to get him back to Victoria, no specific club named.
I don't believe that it's a matter of wanting to lose him, more looking to backfill his position.

 

[DangerousD]

Making a mistake & then doubling down to repeat it when there’s other options available is foolishness.

u learn from the past & apply the knowledge to help shape future decisions.
No one is saying u never make a decision again just because u got one wrong/turned out poorly.

You have to pretty ****ing stupid to make the same mistake continually that u can turn elite hbf into a midfielder.

We have form here, it’s not a one off, I still don’t rate Doc as mid (stats back it to).

I see the mistake as targeting Williams, not what we tried to do with him.
Even when the midfield move failed, he is so far off the player he was at GWS it’s staggering.

 

[DangerousD]

Despite what Mitch Cleary might say nobody knows what Zac's salary is. It might also have been front ended or back ended. To hear Mitch Cleary say that he's on close to X amount this year us just pure speculation.

By all means people can deem the move as a failure retrospectively. But the vast majority on here at the time were very keen for the reasons outlined above.

I was happy when we got Williams but not impressed with the $$$ and years offered, there were lots at the time who were very critical of the details, not so much the player.

It’s a little bit more than speculation though, Zac was a free agent, meaning we, via Zacs agent had to submit paperwork to the AFL to pass on to the Giants, who refused to match.

Just like with Martin, the details of the contract weren’t a secret because we had to lodge them with the AFL.

I am a little sceptical on how/why it would be known that it was x amount this year compared to others though.

Not sure how strict agents are with details like this.

 

[raymagoo]

Post some rumours you cowards. I'm bored. They don't have to be real or current I already know about pavlich