Rumour Bluemour Discussion XXXVI - 'Loopy' Season in full swing

[FlowersByIrene]

Isn't the idea that we've "allowed them to explore" but we're not selling them.

Particularly with Kennedy, he's contracted, so we're not fire selling him.

I think the point we've "oversold our hand" is overblown.

 

[El Topo]

Knowing the other party's list manager, it will be a drawn out affair

Negotiating is tricky business when you've never been wrong...

 

[teagueyubeauty]

Just curious, what do people genuinely see chugga and mowies being worth at the trade table. And what they're actually worth not what we hope to get. Kennedy may get you a mid to late second/early third. Owies I'd suggest is at best a third

Both second rounders, the market will determine where in that round


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[Carl]

Going on examples of previous years trades Kennedy and Owies are both worth 3rd round pics. Disagree all you like but that is the reality. Hope we get more but I wouldn't expect it.

 

[The Fantom]

Does it need to be said?

we've come crashing down since the gws game, injury issues, team selection, players disgruntled to name a few

Yeh blind Freddy can see that but what’s out of hand?

If people are saying it’s out of hand cause we’re going to make some tough decisions along the way, hopefully to number 17, then it’s not the term I’d use.

We were 2nd before it went pare shaped, which coincided with Charlie and TDK’s injuries.

What I’d give to get continuity into this group. Hopefully it changes under the new fitness guy.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Going on examples of previous years trades Kennedy and Owies are both worth 3rd round pics. Disagree all you like but that is the reality. Hope we get more but I wouldn't expect it.

Kennedy is contracted.

 

[Stamos]

Just curious, what do people genuinely see chugga and mowies being worth at the trade table. And what they're actually worth not what we hope to get. Kennedy may get you a mid to late second/early third. Owies I'd suggest is at best a third

Both 2nd round picks

 

[BigFrizz36]

I have concerns regarding Cook, he has a great record and it appears he loves continuity, my concern though is.

How easy is it to preach continuity when you appoint Malthouse and you are challenging for premierships straight away.

How easy is it when you appoint Thompson and Scott and the club is constantly at the top.

Does he have the guts to make changes if Voss wasn’t the right choice?

Cook ran a review and the club decided to stick with Thompson after a really poor 2006 when they finished 10th with a record of 10/11 and being belted by the Hawks by over 10 goals in their last game. The whole footy world expected him to be sacked.

That was his 6th season from memory and they had made one prelim but overall they had struggled. They were a long way from being constantly at the top.

The easy decision would have been to sack him. They toughed it out and won the flag the next year.

I love Matty Kennedy as much as the next bloke but I can't believe that people are having connections if we have decided that our midfield needs to be quicker.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Basically if we've actually "announced" to these 3 to go look and it's been made public then we've put our nuts in a sling as per usual with our trading power. Other clubs list management will be going, "well you've told them you've wanted them out"... same thing happened with Dow, we got peanuts. Now Martin we just let go???? and he's got 2-3 suitors who may have at least given us a late 3rd or 4th which by our standing having to add 7+ players to our list may of been some benefit.

I get we don't want to go all out DoDo on our perception with trades and such, but boy oh boy wowee getting tired of being so nice. Might as well help Brisbane get Ashcroft for nothing in return, like we did with the Hawks a few years back.

Reality is, we were never going to get much for Dow...

Martin would not have got us a pick worth using... late 3rd is fantasy land... would have been very lucky to get a late 4th.

Kennedy is contracted, if the offer is a low ball, we will keep him. Probably an early 3rd rounder, we'd be very lucky with a late 2nd rounder.

Owies you're looking at a 3rd rounder.

I know it's not what we want to hear, but that is realistically what these players are going to get us at the trade table.

 

[Carl]

Kennedy is contracted.

Contracted player the club doesn't want. Makes a big difference.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Both 2nd round picks

I'd take those and run for the hills...

 

[Wickzki]

Going on examples of previous years trades Kennedy and Owies are both worth 3rd round pics. Disagree all you like but that is the reality. Hope we get more but I wouldn't expect it.

This. It's exactly why I'm genuinely pissed off to see them go.

When the going gets tough you identify your conditional players and jettison them for that type of value.

You don't do it to heart and soul types.

Thanks for leaving your wife and newborn Matt, here's a Q2 substitution while lesser players stay on the field and now you can GAGF if you want isn't a strong message for a winning club culture.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Contracted player the club doesn't want. Makes a big difference.

Where have we said that? Can you show me a link?

Or have we merely said that we will allow him to seek a bigger midfield role elsewhere if we are adequately compensated?

 

[BigFrizz36]

Basically if we've actually "announced" to these 3 to go look and it's been made public then we've put our nuts in a sling as per usual with our trading power. Other clubs list management will be going, "well you've told them you've wanted them out"... same thing happened with Dow, we got peanuts. Now Martin we just let go???? and he's got 2-3 suitors who may have at least given us a late 3rd or 4th which by our standing having to add 7+ players to our list may of been some benefit.

I get we don't want to go all out DoDo on our perception with trades and such, but boy oh boy wowee getting tired of being so nice. Might as well help Brisbane get Ashcroft for nothing in return, like we did with the Hawks a few years back.

Plenty of clubs have told players that they are free to pursue other opportunities.

* have told Laverde and Stringer

Gold Coast have told Lukosios and Rosas.

There would probably be some from every club that we don't know about.

 

[AndyLucimitis]

Isn't the idea that we've "allowed them to explore" but we're not selling them.

Particularly with Kennedy, he's contracted, so we're not fire selling him.

I think the point we've "oversold our hand" is overblown.

..and it was a rumour from Mitch Cleary - it wasn't exactly a club sanctioned announcement (re: explore options)

 

[Blue_Fusion]

This. It's exactly why I'm genuinely pissed off to see them go.

When the going gets tough you identify your conditional players and jettison them for that type of value.

You don't do it to heart and soul types.

Thanks for leaving your wife and newborn Matt, here's a Q2 substitution while lesser players stay on the field and now you can GAGF if you want isn't a strong message for a winning club culture.

I think this is a little overblown Wickz...

Like I've said recently, Dogs traded their captain and won a flag 2 years later...

Pies infamously off loaded Grundy and Treloar... flag 2 years later...

Tough list decisions need to be made. Our midfield mix is not working. Who do you get rid of instead of MK? Hewett would be worth peanuts at his age, we're not getting rid of Cripps or Walsh... that leaves Kennedy and Cerra... who would get us something in return...

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Where have we said that? Can you show me a link?

Or have we merely said that we will allow him to seek a bigger midfield role elsewhere if we are adequately compensated?

Probably just inferred by us telling him to look for another club

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Probably just inferred by us telling him to look for another club

Big difference between - "don't want, happy to facilitate a landing good for you if we're reasonably compensated" and "don't want at any price, get the **** out and we'll take a 4th round".

 

[Prem17]

Fantasia is not a starting mid type with plenty of competition for a couple of spots who can be “slow 100%”

Look at the positions they’re best suited to on the field than comparing players straight out


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Who says it was a "straight out," on-field comparison?
The two names were in the same post in regard to effort produced.

 

[Carl]

Where have we said that? Can you show me a link?

Or have we merely said that we will allow him to seek a bigger midfield role elsewhere if we are adequately compensated?

Come on mate read between the lines. The club and player have worded it nicely so Kennedy finds a new club and we get some compensation.

If no one offers him a contract he will stay. If he leaves it will be for a 3rd rounder and thank you for your service. I'm not happy with the compensation but that is life.

 

[Accidental genius]

Yeh blind Freddy can see that but what’s out of hand?

If people are saying it’s out of hand cause we’re going to make some tough decisions along the way, hopefully to number 17, then it’s not the term I’d use.

We were 2nd before it went pare shaped, which coincided with Charlie and TDK’s injuries.

What I’d give to get continuity into this group. Hopefully it changes under the new fitness guy.

I would augue footy department operations is out of hand…

I don’t blame our downturn solely on injury prones and russell.

I believe our game plan is too taxing and team selection is too rigid. We need to develop the vfl guys better and also give them more opportunities as well. Look at what lord and moir showed in the last 2 h&a games.

One could argue coaching team do not make enough changes in games to slow oppo momentum down or swing it our way.

Media were calling out for a move like Williams to f50 long before we did it.

Keeping kemp isolated against forwards like hogan.

Not to mention the selection blunders in the elimination final.

thoughts?

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Come on mate read between the lines. The club and player have worded it nicely so Kennedy finds a new club and we get some compensation.

If no one offers him a contract he will stay. If he leaves it will be for a 3rd rounder and thank you for your service. I'm not happy with the compensation but that is life.

Okay mate. I'm happy with my ability to "read between the lines", I don't share your pessimism.

 

[Wickzki]

Like I've said recently, Dogs traded their captain and won a flag 2 years later...

Ryan Griffen situation is VERY different to the Kennedy situation. It's much closer to Petracca where an irreparable rift had formed between then-Dogs coach McCartney and Griffen had formed.

Griffen, from reports, wasn't exactly a positive club man in his final year or so at the club. In a way it was addition by subtraction.

Kennedy may want more time in the midfield but it's not a relationship breakdown with Voss (though the way he was treated in the final I wouldn't be shocked if he was frustrated).

===

But to add a more balanced view:

I saw a comment online by a former player - who is still highly influential at the club - on social media earlier that basically said (paraphrasing here):

Kennedy playing 24 games this year was more or less a "fluke." Before this year he has never not missed a month or more of the season due to injury. They feel it is unlikely that he gets through a complete season in the way that he wants to play, in his preferred position. Kennedy was identified in the review of long-term player health. The club doesn't view him as a permanent half-forward option and if that's the position he has to play to get through a complete season then he's replaceable.

==

Some of that is difficult to argue against but I'm still not a fan of it.

 

[Arr0w]

Kennedy is contracted, it won't be a token pick

 

[ctwenty1]

Isn't the idea that we've "allowed them to explore" but we're not selling them.

Particularly with Kennedy, he's contracted, so we're not fire selling him.

I think the point we've "oversold our hand" is overblown.

And I’d argue pretty much all clubs take this approach