Rumour Bluemour Discussion XXXVI - 'Loopy' Season in full swing

[The Bighouse]

It's not beyond the realms of possibility that Kennedy is very pissed off with Voss and therefor if he nominates a club(removing the auction aspect), we can expect **** all compensation.(at least less than most would find acceptable)

If he doesn't want to be here, than you just arrange any trade that suits Kennedy.

On ya bike then, Matty & grow up wherever you go should be the response, if that’s the case.

 

[tommy43]

Maybe we're trying to clear cap space to fit Houston in? Kennedy, Young and Owies salaries on their own may not amount to muich, but combined along with those delisted (especially the 3 always injured) would add up.

On another note, I see Cats are interested in Jack Martin

21

Jack Martin

Age

29

Ht

186cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.2

4star

K

10.0

4star

HB

6.3

4star

M

4.9

5star

T

3.7

5star

G

0.9

4star

D

14.9

4star

K

7.9

3star

HB

7.0

4star

M

4.3

4star

T

3.6

4star

G

1.1

5star

D

8.2

2star

K

4.6

2star

HB

3.6

3star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.0

4star

G

0.6

3star

too. For a bloke who supposedly has zero value, there's a bit of interest around for him.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Basically if we've actually "announced" to these 3 to go look and it's been made public then we've put our nuts in a sling as per usual with our trading power. Other clubs list management will be going, "well you've told them you've wanted them out"... same thing happened with Dow, we got peanuts. Now Martin we just let go???? and he's got 2-3 suitors who may have at least given us a late 3rd or 4th which by our standing having to add 7+ players to our list may of been some benefit.

I get we don't want to go all out DoDo on our perception with trades and such, but boy oh boy wowee getting tired of being so nice. Might as well help Brisbane get Ashcroft for nothing in return, like we did with the Hawks a few years back.

JJ, Martin is out of contract. We aren't offering him a contract. He can walk out into the PSD come October 31.

All we are doing is giving him more of a chance to find a suitor. We aren't giving up a pick here.

 

[HarryFlashman]

I think this is a little overblown Wickz...

Like I've said recently, Dogs traded their captain and won a flag 2 years later...

Pies infamously off loaded Grundy and Treloar... flag 2 years later...

Tough list decisions need to be made. Our midfield mix is not working. Who do you get rid of instead of MK? Hewett would be worth peanuts at his age, we're not getting rid of Cripps or Walsh... that leaves Kennedy and Cerra... who would get us something in return...

Griffen & pick 6 went to GWS for Boyd, Grundy was pick 27 a massive salary dump, Treloar with 26, 33,42 for 14 & future 2nd.
All the above isn’t what we are doing - we will be lucky to get late 2nds, I’m thinking a late 2nd and late 3rd will be our hall from this & have just smashed our depth.
This isn’t brave or a major move.

 

[jj1978]

JJ, Martin is out of contract. We aren't offering him a contract. He can work out into the PSD come October 31.

All we are doing is giving him more of a chance to find a suitor. We aren't giving up a pick here.

Still if he's going to PSD himself, it doesn't hurt to have a discussion with Martin and his manager that yes we'll part ways but give us an opportunity during trade period 7-16 October to help assess a suitor with you and get you there even for something token-ish future 4th/5th whatever. He got paid well, we nursed him through enough re-hab, helped his family settle into Victoria, it's not much of an ask.

Worst case, nothing gets done and he's still off to the PSD anyway.

 

[branedotorg]

Schultz was a bit better than Owies, was contracted, and the Filth overpaid, so the value isn’t completely analogous. But, he cost #34 and F1.
So surely a 2nd round pick for a guy who kicked 33 goals is reasonable.

Matthew Wright scored 73 goals in 65 games for us, including a 30 goal season. We got him as a DFA.

That said I'd say Owies and Schultz have a similar value, Collingwood just massively overpaid.

 

[branedotorg]

Still if he's going to PSD himself, it doesn't hurt to have a discussion with Martin and his manager that yes we'll part ways but give us an opportunity during trade period 7-16 October to help assess a suitor with you and get you there even for something token-ish future 4th/5th whatever. He got paid well, we nursed him through enough re-hab, helped his family settle into Victoria, it's not much of an ask.

Worst case, nothing gets done and he's still off to the PSD anyway.

I'd suggest we've already done all that and the due diligence by the other prospective club(s) came out with them only taking him as a DFA free hit.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Griffen went to GWS for Boyd & pick 6, Grundy was pick 27 a massive salary dump, Treloar with 26, 33,42 for 14 & future 2nd.
All the above isn’t what we are doing - we will be lucky to get late 2nds, I’m thinking a late 2nd and late 3rd will be our hall from this & have just smashed our depth.
This isn’t brave or a major move.

Will probably combine those picks to a higher 2nd...

Then we could look at combining that 2nd with our own to move into late 1st round.

A lot to play out.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Ryan Griffen situation is VERY different to the Kennedy situation. It's much closer to Petracca where an irreparable rift had formed between then-Dogs coach McCartney and Griffen had formed.

Griffen, from reports, wasn't exactly a positive club man in his final year or so at the club. In a way it was addition by subtraction.

Kennedy may want more time in the midfield but it's not a relationship breakdown with Voss (though the way he was treated in the final I wouldn't be shocked if he was frustrated).

===

But to add a more balanced view:

I saw a comment online by a former player - who is still highly influential at the club - on social media earlier that basically said (paraphrasing here):

Kennedy playing 24 games this year was more or less a "fluke." Before this year he has never not missed a month or more of the season due to injury. They feel it is unlikely that he gets through a complete season in the way that he wants to play, in his preferred position. Kennedy was identified in the review of long-term player health. The club doesn't view him as a permanent half-forward option and if that's the position he has to play to get through a complete season then he's replaceable.

==

Some of that is difficult to argue against but I'm still not a fan of it.

Of course Griffen situation was very different... but at the end of the day he was their captain... and he was traded.

How positive do you reckon Kennedy's exit meeting was?

Like I've said, out of our 5 mids, he's the one we should be shopping around. Lacks leg speed, can't hit targets inside 50, wants more mid time... it makes the most sense whether we like it or not.

It's also worth noting that if we get a low ball offer for him, we can and probably will hold onto him anyway.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Big difference between - "don't want, happy to facilitate a landing good for you if we're reasonably compensated" and "don't want at any price, get the **** out and we'll take a 4th round".

Why do you assume we'll take a 4th round?

He's still contracted. But to change our mid mix, it makes the most sense to start with shopping him around. The only other one we could consider is Cerra, but that's looking doubtful...

Who knows, we might have brought his name up and clubs don't want to risk on him so we're better off holding onto him and hoping he comes good after his Qatar treatment...

 

[Magruder]

Maybe we're trying to clear cap space to fit Houston in? Kennedy, Young and Owies salaries on their own may not amount to muich, but combined along with those delisted (especially the 3 always injured) would add up.

On another note, I see Cats are interested in Jack Martin too. For a bloke who supposedly has zero value, there's a bit of interest around for him.

Interest is as a no cost option.

 

[The Fantom]

I would augue footy department operations is out of hand…

I don’t blame our downturn solely on injury prones and russell.

I believe our game plan is too taxing and team selection is too rigid. We need to develop the vfl guys better and also give them more opportunities as well. Look at what lord and moir showed in the last 2 h&a games.

One could argue coaching team do not make enough changes in games to slow oppo momentum down or swing it our way.

Media were calling out for a move like Williams to f50 long before we did it.

Keeping kemp isolated against forwards like hogan.

Not to mention the selection blunders in the elimination final.

thoughts?

100% agree with you on the selection blunders, I think Voss went for a Hail Mary and it didn’t pay off. I also think it was the injury toll that forced him to do it. I just want continuity, a year with minimal injuries to see what this team can do.

That Geelong game was the best we’ve played in a long time, Geelong are in a Prelim and we’re not, are they really that much better than us?

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Can we pause a bit on the doom spiraling?

Yes, the season ended disappointingly.

Yes there’s things that we could’ve done better, but progress is rarely linear.

Dees: prelim in 18, 17th in 19, 9th in 20, 1st and Flag in 21 and top 4 the next 2.

Tigers: 5th in 13 (elim), 8th in 14 (elim), 5th in 15 (elim), 13th in 16, 3rd and flag in 17 and 19/20.

We’re in a sink or swim spot, but just as things are never as good as they seem (2nd at round 19) they aren’t as bad as they seem right now either.

The list will change, but losing faith in coaches and footy bosses now is a decision based on panic

So if hypothetically, if we win 5 flags in a row... still never as good as it seems?

 

[RAPPA]

100% agree with you on the selection blunders, I think Voss went for a Hail Mary and it didn’t pay off. I also think it was the injury toll that forced him to do it. I just want continuity, a year with minimal injuries to see what this team can do.

That Geelong game was the best we’ve played in a long time, Geelong are in a Prelim and we’re not, are they really that much better than us?

They’re a better balanced team without the A graders on each line, and very well drilled.

The likes of Holmes, Stengle, Miers and Close are the exact types we lack.

That said, I do agree. The Geelong game was the most comprehensive performance we displayed in years.

 

[Stig O'Hara]

JJ, Martin is out of contract. We aren't offering him a contract. He can work out into the PSD come October 31.

All we are doing is giving him more of a chance to find a suitor. We aren't giving up a pick here.

By geez, we squeezed him
out of the factory quick smart.

5 years ago we were pulling all sorts of shifties to get him.

Spent a motza, priced everyone out of the market, plonked him in the PSD & really didn’t get much.

Lesson learned.

Of course not.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Why do you assume we'll take a 4th round?

He's still contracted. But to change our mid mix, it makes the most sense to start with shopping him around. The only other one we could consider is Cerra, but that's looking doubtful...

Who knows, we might have brought his name up and clubs don't want to risk on him so we're better off holding onto him and hoping he comes good after his Qatar treatment...

I'm with you. I'm saying the 4th Round thing will not happen.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Okay mate. I'm happy with my ability to "read between the lines", I don't share your pessimism.

Kennedy's POV needs considering.... He's gone.

 

[GoBlues!]

Sadly, as I discussed with several people on here meetings we had with senior players last Monday after Lions loss didn't really solve anything. Interesting the names mentioned as possible trades are the ones I mentioned as not being happy and there are more players involved.

There is probably more concerns and rumours coming from the club than I have heard in 3 years.

There is a lot of frustration amongst the playing group. Especially senior players. This has been bubbling along for a few months and IMO this has been shown in results.

It seems internally the coaches and LM are blaming the players? This is where the issues seem to lie.

The club is at a real cross roads in regards to it's football department. These things need to be fixed and addressed. Voss won't be sacked (I don't think) but he needs to take things on board or he will really lose the group. If he can I can see us being Top 4 and if he doesn't we could fall dramatically.

Game plan, style and expectations seems to be the major issue but there are issues with List balance, contracts and who we are possibly targeting.

As I have said for months we are speaking with anyone and everyone and there will be a minimum 8-10 changes. Houston wasn't a target of Austin but Voss is pushing for him. What will happen I have no idea.

This is where Cook needs to step up and I have concerns about Lloyd. IMO, A strong Head of Football wouldn't have let these issues fester

Fingers crossed we can sort this and soon. I never would have believed this 6 months ago. Next 4-6 weeks will determine a lot of our future. I believe it's this serious

Reckon Kennedy and Cinccotta would be pissed off and rightly so. Others might also be annoyed at their treatment in favour of under done and out of form players like Cerra and Motlop.

Hopefully behind closed doors the club will critically assess Voss & coaches and identify where they need to improve. It will be disappointing if the club just blames the players for the past 2 months and not the management of the team.

 

[Blue Crippto]

I can tell you that if Sam De Koning does not play this week or next week if Geelong make the Grand Final, he will be exploring his options and we are keen to get him to the club if we can facilitate a trade.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

On ya bike then, Matty & grow up wherever you go should be the response, if that’s the case.

Is that what you tell everyone who changes company?

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Kennedy's POV needs considering.... He's gone.

Be that as it may. He won't be going for a nothing pick. If he goes it will be for sufficient value. I'd expect at least a 2nd round selection.

 

[The Bighouse]

Is that what you tell everyone who changes company?

This was in response to the bolded and petulant attitude if indeed the attitude.

 

[CrippaTheGoat9]

I can tell you that if Sam De Koning does not play this week or next week if Geelong make the Grand Final, he will be exploring his options and we are keen to get him to the club if we can facilitate a trade.

 

[Jacks Seething Rage]

How did things get out of hand with Cook at the helm?

It was mentioned quiet a bit that he is a an experienced operator and was going to bring stability to the club?

What is out of hand?

 

[Aphrodite]

Come on mate read between the lines. The club and player have worded it nicely so Kennedy finds a new club and we get some compensation.

If no one offers him a contract he will stay. If he leaves it will be for a 3rd rounder and thank you for your service. I'm not happy with the compensation but that is life.

There hasn’t been any announcement from the Club or Kennedy.

It all came from a Mitch Cleary tweet yesterday and was on CH7 news.

No lines to read between!