Rumour Bluemour Discussion XXXVI - 'Loopy' Season in full swing

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Wherever you draw the line you will have issues, currently Battle and Perryman would have got Richmond and North pick 2 and 3 if they played there, it’s just a bit wrong.

I don’t see it as taking much to fix.

I don’t like the whole idea of compensation but when the AFL are setting up teams in markets that can’t support them then you have to have some kind of equalisation.

You are right, but I’d just be hoping If we got rid of band 1 and 2 then compensation would be just seen as a bonus and it would be seen as an equalisation method

 

[athensblue]

SoS got 10 kicked on him by Plugger at moorabin in 1989
The draft with dow and O'brien was by far his worst performance ever for the club
He is am all time favourite of mine but he had some misses which have really cost us big time
Anyway. Take the great with the crap. He was an unbelievable talent as a player, gun and would be great to have him playing in 2025, just what is needed

 

[thedan29]

If Owies goes. Is Ned McHenry worth a look as a free hit. Just got delisted by the croms.

He’d be behind the pecking order of Fog, Motlop and Durdin.. unless Durds/Mots gets injured again he may be handy as a backup. I’d rather focus on bringing in Berry as a small fwd personally

 

[myblueroan]

Yep all signs pointing to a club pushing hard for a flag

Let's just prepare ourselves for a fun filled year of Hawks worshipping from the press.

Oh joy.

 

[Blue and Silver]

SoS got 10 kicked on him by Plugger at moorabin in 1989
The draft with dow and O'brien was by far his worst performance ever for the club
He is am all time favourite of mine but he had some misses which have really cost us big time
Anyway. Take the great with the crap. He was an unbelievable talent as a player, gun and would be great to have him playing in 2025, just what is needed

We did get TDK in that draft

On Pixel 7a using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[VainGlorious]

We any chance for big Pav this year?

Big Sauces close to me (Lance Whitnall) are indicating that we’re in the box seat.

 

[jimsta10]

We any chance for big Pav this year?

slim to high..

 

[Ezayyak]

SoS got 10 kicked on him by Plugger at moorabin in 1989

Remarkably the next time they met, Lockett didn't kick a goal.

 

[Campoeasy]

Zac Bailey, Ed Richards and Starcivich all still there, 21-30 in the draft is top shelf imo.

GWS got Daniels and Taylor in the 20s both are fantastic players

Richards went 16

 

[passmark]

Let's just prepare ourselves for a fun filled year of Hawks worshipping from the press.

Oh joy.

A year of Mitchell trying to be the humble everyman, Clarko MII

Can’t wait

 

[myblueroan]

A year of Mitchell trying to be the humble everyman, Clarko MII

Can’t wait

Look, I kind of like them. They are fun to watch. But Footy is complex.
I loathe them on principle and that jumper is triggering.
Plus I HATE that they are already back up the top.

 

[The Blue Weirdo]

The problem with the end of round compo is the bottom side could lose a Dustin Martin and get pick 19 and the top side could lose Perryman and get 20.
I don’t mind the equalisation part of it but just get rid of the first round picks.

Yes, you don't want to lose an A-grade player like Charlie through free agency to get market value.
Someone like Cerra would return fairer compensation.
And clubs are prepared to lose a B grader in a strong draft or to gain a player of more need.

 

[gbatman]

Regardless of SOS or Austin. Both have done a really poor jobs at recruiting fast midfielders and small forwards. I don't think the problem is so much the head of recruiting, I think the issue is the recruiting team as a whole.

We have been poor at securing players with key traits in the forward line and in the middle.

Our midfielders lack pace and agility. We get made to look like witches hats by the sides who don't. We literally suck at the part of AFL football that is "tiggy/tag". We pick all the kids in the playground who get stuck as the one who is "it" because they can't catch anyone and make a midfield out of them. While teams like Collingwood did the exact opposite.

Picking midfielders who are agile, reasonably quick and can rack up a good tackle count is something we have sucked at. None of our quick midfield selections apart from Walsh the last 10 years tackle and all lack physicality. We pretty much pick mids who are fast but small and not physically good or we pick bigger bodies who get plenty of possessions but are slow and lack agility.

We finally bring a player into the list who has these qualities and what does our ** ** coach do? Drops Lord for finals.

Recruiting team is poor. Coach is not pushing the right types of players with his selection.

SOS picked plenty of quick mids who tackle at GWS, not sure it's a SOS thing, it's an us thing.

It's the same with our small forward selections. Cottrell, Fogarty, Fantasia, Durdin. All rubbish. They are all VFL level midfielders who failed to become mids and have been stuck in the forward line. None of them are natural forwards. Hollands, Motlop and Williams have half the forward qualities to be ok. Those three don't have the full set of forward traits to be elite, just ok.

It's a league wide problem, not being able to identify genuine and quality small forwards. That's why they often are recruited late in the draft or from other clubs because they are being coached poorly. I think it is because the genuine small forwards doesn't always fit the mould of the modern AFL player. They are different. You have to have a forward brain, not just the athletic attributes.

Good small forwards need to have smarts, they need to be able to get to good positions regularly. They also need an overhead game. Biggest issue in our forward line is the lack of players with an overhead game. Look at Collingwood, they have Elliott and Hill who are strong overhead. All the small forward I have mentioned don't have an overhead game. When we are going forward there really are only two players you would bother kicking to and everyone knows it. You can ask the players not to do this but subconsciously they know who is reliable overhead and who is not, you need to put the players into place. That is why Martin was a big loss. That is why Kemp and Moir will be in my best 22 selection.

Small forwards should not be judged on goals alone but by how often they make good position and what their impact is like. Get the the fall of the ball a lot and either get it or make a tackle. Have a good overhead game. Win the ball not way up the ground but in the position they play. Take a few marks and break up the play that way and of course, kick a few goals.

The names I mentioned above don't get to good position a lot. If they do their impact is often poor because they don't get the ball a lot or they don't make tackles or compete in contests. The physicality level of our small forwards is terrible and the overhead game of them is non-existent. They are not AFL level forwards.

The one who is is Moir. Comes into the team, makes really good position, lays tackles and has big impacts when he is at the contest. Wins the ball in the position he is playing in. Really good at ground level and overhead. He is the only player who looks like a genuine elite small forward we have had in the side all season and what does our ** ** coach do? Drops him for finals.

The problem with our side is that our recruiting team (regardless of SOS or Austin) have done a really poor job at identifying onball talent. Totally neglected defensive traits and abilities, the ability to run and catch players, the loose ball etc and lay good tackles. Run and carry. We have missed the boat badly when it comes to recruiting small forwards. Only Moir has the complete traits of a good small forward.

To back that up, our coaches of the last 10 years have done a horrible job of feeding this information to our recruiting team. Our current coach has done a horrible job when it comes to pushing genuine forwards and faster onballers. Refused to play Dow and dropped him for finals even though he proved to make a difference to our onball setup leading up to finals last season. He's no star and isn't good defensively but he offered a point of difference in there. Did the same with Fisher and left us with no run off half back in finals last season. Did the same thing this year with Lord and Moir.

How anyone would pick Cottrell at every opportunity and pick Cerra when he's absolutely useless and drop two young players who were playing well and contributing to areas that we are really weak in is beyond me. He's not much of a coach but he could be successful if we were able to put the right people around him and we haven't. That's clear.

Our recruitment team needs to focus on the traits I have mentioned. The coach needs to favour these types over his favorite names. big slow types and useless athletes pretending to be forwards. The coach needs to drive the right types. The coach needs to drive what attributes we want our players to have and hasn't.

These are the two things that our footy club needs to get right or we will go to the bottom of the ladder pretty quick.

 

[Sheephead]

Regardless of SOS or Austin. Both have done a really poor jobs at recruiting fast midfielders and small forwards. I don't think the problem is so much the head of recruiting, I think the issue is the recruiting team as a whole.

We have been poor at securing players with key traits in the forward line and in the middle.

Our midfielders lack pace and agility. We get made to look like witches hats by the sides who don't. We literally suck at the part of AFL football that is "tiggy/tag". We pick all the kids in the playground who get stuck as the one who is "it" because they can't catch anyone and make a midfield out of them. While teams like Collingwood did the exact opposite.

Picking midfielders who are agile, reasonably quick and can rack up a good tackle count is something we have sucked at. None of our quick midfield selections apart from Walsh the last 10 years tackle and all lack physicality. We pretty much pick mids who are fast but small and not physically good or we pick bigger bodies who get plenty of possessions but are slow and lack agility.

We finally bring a player into the list who has these qualities and what does our ** ** coach do? Drops Lord for finals.

Recruiting team is poor. Coach is not pushing the right types of players with his selection.

SOS picked plenty of quick mids who tackle at GWS, not sure it's a SOS thing, it's an us thing.

It's the same with our small forward selections. Cottrell, Fogarty, Fantasia, Durdin. All rubbish. They are all VFL level midfielders who failed to become mids and have been stuck in the forward line. None of them are natural forwards. Hollands, Motlop and Williams have half the forward qualities to be ok. Those three don't have the full set of forward traits to be elite, just ok.

It's a league wide problem, not being able to identify genuine and quality small forwards. That's why they often are recruited late in the draft or from other clubs because they are being coached poorly. I think it is because the genuine small forwards doesn't always fit the mould of the modern AFL player. They are different. You have to have a forward brain, not just the athletic attributes.

Good small forwards need to have smarts, they need to be able to get to good positions regularly. They also need an overhead game. Biggest issue in our forward line is the lack of players with an overhead game. Look at Collingwood, they have Elliott and Hill who are strong overhead. All the small forward I have mentioned don't have an overhead game. When we are going forward there really are only two players you would bother kicking to and everyone knows it. You can ask the players not to do this but subconsciously they know who is reliable overhead and who is not, you need to put the players into place. That is why Martin was a big loss. That is why Kemp and Moir will be in my best 22 selection.

Small forwards should not be judged on goals but by how often they make good position and what their impact is like. Get the the fall of the ball a lot and either get it or make a tackle. Have a good overhead game. Win the ball not way up the ground but in the position they play. Take a few marks and break up the play that way and of course, kick a few goals.

The names I mentioned above don't get to good position a lot. If they do their impact is often poor because they don't get the ball a lot or they don't make tackles. The physicality of our small forwards is terrible and the overhead game of them is non-existent. They are not AFL level forwards.

The one who is is Moir. Comes into the team, makes really good position, lays tackles and has big impacts when he is at the contest. Wins the ball in the position he is playing in. Really good at ground level and overhead. He is the only player who looks like a genuine small forward we have had in the side all season and what does our ** ** coach do? Drops him for finals.

The problem with our side is that our recruiting team (regardless of SOS or Austin) have done a really poor jub at identifying onball talent. Totally neglected defensive traits and abilities, the ability to run and catch players, the loose ball etc and lay good tackles. We have missed the boat badly when it comes to recruiting small forwards. Only Moir has the complete traits of a good small forward.

To back that up, our coaches of the last 10 years have done a horrible job of feeding this information to our recruiting team. Our current coach has done a horrible job when it comes to pushing genuine forwards and faster onballers. Refused to play Dow and dropped him for finals even though he proved to make a difference to our onball setup leading up to finals last season. He's no star and isn't good defensively but he offered a point of difference in there. Did the same with Fisher and left us with no run off half back in finals last season. Did the same thing this year with Lord and Moir.

How anyone would pick Cottrell at every opportunity and pick Cerra when he's absolutely useless and drop one player two young players who were playing well and contributing to areas that we are really weak in is beyond me.

Our recruitment team needs to focus on the traits I have mentioned. The coach needs to favour these types over his favorite names.

These are the two things that our footy club needs to get right or we will go to the bottom of the ladder pretty quick.

All good to throw shade - what’s the solution?


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[SirSanchez]

He’d be behind the pecking order of Fog, Motlop and Durdin.. unless Durds/Mots gets injured again he may be handy as a backup. I’d rather focus on bringing in Berry as a small fwd personally

Yep good call. But Durdins shoulders are questionable.

 

[bmaurizio]

Let's just prepare ourselves for a fun filled year of Hawks worshipping from the press.

Oh joy.

Media feast & admiration aside, Sam Micthell has done brilliantly with his young team, they’ll be reinforced next seaso too. The return of Day, Lewis and JC, Mackenzie & experienced recruits . Reckon they’ll go much further into September next time around.

 

[KohPhi]

Big Sauces close to me (Lance Whitnall) are indicating that we’re in the box seat.

Thanks for the info Glicksy...

 

[gbatman]

All good to throw shade - what’s the solution?


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Learn from the mistakes. It's that simple.

Take the attributes I have mentioned when recruiting and make them a priority.

Our recruiting attributes must be as follows.

Small forwards must

1. Compete well in the contest.
2. Tackle.
3. Make good position.
4. Take marks and be at least reasonable overhead.
5. Win the ball in the area they are playing.
6. Kick goals. Doesn't have to be bags.
7. Good leg speed.

Onballers must

1. Can tackle well and in good numbers.
2. Closing speed. Get to the loose ball and opposition ball carrier quickly when it's their turn.
3. Run both ways.
4. Have at least a reasonable ability to run with the footy, even if it's just a few steps out of a stoppage.
5. find the footy.
6. compete well in the contests.

Coaching

1. Shun players who lack these traits unless they are elite in other areas to make up for it.
2. Pick players who have these traits, even if they are a bit raw and inconsistent.
3. Team selections should be based more on the modern game and not rolling maul football of 5 years ago.
4. Don't be afraid of youth
5. Get better at identifying forwards who are real forwards with these qualities and play them.
6. Push the message to the recruiting team, this is what we want. You do that with team selection and clear messages.


I can see why Austin wants draft picks. I think last year's drafting was us turning things around. I think Austin is desperate to undo a lot of the mistakes that have been made which I have mentioned and have been for 3 years now. We have been slow to react but I think we are on the right course now. Lets see what our recruiting looks like though.

Lord, Wilson, Moir. Yes, yes, yes. Good signs from us. But we need more of it.

Nothing will move for us until we fix the middle of the ground. The complete torching our midfield copped in the qualifying final and the preliminary final last year should send the message to coaching and list management. Voss had all his favourites in and they couldn't get near the Brisbane players or the ball. There's the problem.

Our forward line weakness is easy to see. The qualities I mentioned above apply to a lot of Brisbane's forwards and Collingwoods forwards last season. Brisbane's small forwards smashed us in the air this year. That was a big eye opener. We know these qualities don't apply to our smaller forwards. Moir is a big tick to Austin and Kemp worked forward despite being underfed in our last game.

 

[BlueTongue]

All good to throw shade - what’s the solution?


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

It’s one thing to have a Forward as a defence coach - that makes sense when it comes to what a defender has to learn to expect/counter, but what can an ex Defender as a forward coach, teach our smalls (or Keys) about their craft?

I’d replace Russel for a start.

 

[Jacks Seething Rage]

Oliver is going, staying, going and now staying.

Trac is going, staying but apparently still wants to leave.

Absolute shit show at the Dees.

This is mittens the dees list manager executing their trade strategy...probably.

 

[bmaurizio]

All good to throw shade - what’s the solution?


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Head hunt for the best & experienced talent in the field, Coaching & Recruiting are critical and vital areas, surely that’s obvious, we’ve lost at least 20 years fumbling in the dark. SOS burned away so many first round picks, just disastrous.
Dow, O’Brien had to be paid out SPS it’s too painful to mention the remainder.

 

[TommyPinch]

As trade period approaches let's remember that supposed losses in trades can be great wins. Adam Tomlinson

20

Adam Tomlinson

Age

31

Ht

194cm

Wt

95kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.5

4star

K

9.8

4star

HB

5.8

4star

M

4.8

5star

T

2.3

4star

D

15.5

4star

K

9.8

4star

HB

5.8

3star

M

4.8

4star

T

2.3

3star

D

15.5

4star

K

9.8

4star

HB

5.8

4star

M

4.8

5star

T

2.3

4star

is now looking to move to Collingwood after limited opportunities. We wanted to trade for him and GWS wouldn't accept our draft pick offer. Some were shattered. That pick turned out to be Charlie Curnow

30

Charlie Curnow

Age

27

Ht

194cm

Wt

94kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.3

3star

K

9.7

4star

HB

3.6

3star

M

5.3

5star

T

2.2

4star

G

1.3

5star

No current season stats available

D

10.8

3star

K

6.4

3star

HB

4.4

4star

M

3.2

4star

T

1.6

4star

G

0.8

4star

.

Carn the baggers!

 

[DangerousD]

Richards went 16

Yep, so still there at our pick.

 

[gbatman]

Head hunt for the best & experienced talent in the field, Coaching & Recruiting are critical and vital, we’ve lost at least 20 years fumbling in the dark. SOS burned away so many first round picks, just disastrous what a waste.
Dow, O’Brien had to be paid out SPS it’s too painful to mention the remainder.

Was it SOS though? He didn't burn them with GWS. In fact he got them to a grand final despite not being overly well coached.

I think it's us and I think it's because our recruiting team has been working in the dark.

The coach is a member of all clubs recruiting team. The coach goes to the recruiting team and gives them direction. The coach asks for the types of players he wants and he asks for the attributes he wants those players to have. The recruiters then go out and recruit those players with those attributes.

If the coach wants big bodied mids who get a lot of the footy and are physical in the contest then that's what the recruiters will get. If the coach wants outside mids with speed then that's what you get. The recruiters, it's up to them to pick the individuals.

I don't think Teague was giving great direction if any. Not sure about Bolton. Voss at the beginning, not sure he was really directing them well either.

Recruiting is done as a team and it's guided by the coaching group.

Blaming one individual is just not on the money.

It's not like Voss and Austin came in and got cracking at fixing all the issues the side has. It's taken until last year before anything significant happened. In regards to the middle and the forward line? We need more action here. Significant list changes haven't happened for a while but look to be happening now. Hopefully it's not too late.

Haynes gives us 2 or 3 good seasons. At least one of the Camporeale's turn out pretty good. We take two good kids in the draft and possibly land another handy mature player we need then it's going to be a good draft for us. Particularly if we go into next season with Lord, Wilson, Moir etc coming into the side and having a solid impact.

 

[BlueTongue]

Head hunt for the best & experienced talent in the field, Coaching & Recruiting are critical and vital, we’ve lost at least 20 years fumbling in the dark. SOS burned away so many first round picks, just disastrous what a waste.
Dow, O’Brien had to be paid out SPS it’s too painful to mention the remainder.

Our list issues started before SOS & Austin.

SOS made some poor decisions but he also inherited a basket case and had to get us competitive fast. GWS was the fastest way because he knew the talent and had some opportunities to get good players cheap due to injury. A gamble that could go either way. BUT, he didn’t miss with our spine.

Austin inherited a hospital ward of long term injured, and has had to offer decent picks and salary to get talent through the door, as we weren’t really seen a a destination club.

Blame our Head of Football and previous board for that.
At least we are travelling in the right direction now.