Rumour Bluemour Discussion XXXVI - 'Loopy' Season in full swing

[SurreyBlue]

I’m actually starting to get annoyed and frustrated at all the Collingwood / Houston talk.
Seriously they offered him additional superannuation years to convince him. They are offering GC less for 13 then others but somehow that is the best deal and now they refuse to offer picks because others will use them to extract more value. I’m seriously …. Somebody please sh@1 these media cheerleading imbeciles UP!!!

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

If he was a good footballer we'd be keeping him

Our list management has been shown - repeatedly - to be little better than a slapstick comedy.

This is but another example sadly.

 

[DangerousD]

We have a list squeeze due to having a lot of talent on our list. WCE are a baron wasteland of doom atm. Teams know that, and thus know we will get rid of him for a can of Pepsi if we have to. Thus - 0 trade value

Owies imo was awarded opportunity this year due to the injuries to our other forwards. I wouldn't have him near our best 22 in 2025 if others are healthy

Last year WC paid a draft pick for Brockman from the Hawks even though they had pick 1 in the MSD, blew my mind, my issue with Austin is that he hasn’t made it seem to others that we will keep him and its been telegraphed that he wont be offered a deal, so no need to trade. I find this poor management from him, similar to what happened with Stocker and the same with Jack Martin.

Having a best 22 on the park is rare, the reality is Owies averages more goals than all the other smalls, more tackles than Durdin and Motlop, more possessions than Durdin.

The others might look better, probably should be better, but i dont see them being better yet.

 

[DangerousD]

Curnow and Harry have 5 years + before then... Cowan Wilson Holland's draftees this year. A trade target or FA on the way, walker. No rebuild. Refreshes

If Curnow and Harry have 5+ years before then (i agree) why is 6 years irresponsible for Houston? He’s the same age.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Our list management has been shown - repeatedly - to be little better than a slapstick comedy.

This is but another example sadly.

Our list team has had some great success stories, and some crap picks. Just like any other list team

 

[Gointocarlton]

Signing fringe players to 3 year contracts and shedding goal kickers for zero return... we've seen this movie before

Perhaps there is method to the madness that we simply aren't privy to. Let it play out and then let's see. At this stage, Owies is still a Carlton player.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Last year WC paid a draft pick for Brockman from the Hawks even though they had pick 1 in the MSD, blew my mind, my issue with Austin is that he hasn’t made it seem to others that we will keep him and its been telegraphed that he wont be offered a deal, so no need to trade. I find this poor management from him, similar to what happened with Stocker and the same with Jack Martin.

Having a best 22 on the park is rare, the reality is Owies averages more goals than all the other smalls, more tackles than Durdin and Motlop, more possessions than Durdin.

The others might look better, probably should be better, but i dont see them being better yet.

Stocker and Martin. If you have issue with either of those delisting's in hindsight I don't think we'll agree on anything related to this.

Owies will not be missed next season

 

[Coona Blues]

Keep 13 if we can get it. Don't have list spots to take 19 and 22 plus Campos.

Won’t know that definitively for another 6 days. If the opportunity came, would be worth exploring. There is plenty of talent in the draft pool.

 

[teagueyubeauty]

Remember when Taranto and Hopper went to Richmond and people were saying similar things about how good they’re going to be with those additions.
We all know that hasn’t panned out how a lot of people initially thought it would.
Let’s hope the same for Perryman and Houston at the pies.

Not I, always thought they were two that would change the way the team played too much from the fast, manic style they had.
Get one of them, no problem, but not both


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Arr0w]

What do you think should have been done differently (particularly by Bain and Owies)?

Understand the market place

 

[DangerousD]

Many different strategies could assist us, in taking the next step, even a flag

Addition of ready made players, developing youth, health and continiuty of the list, tweaking the gameplan, even a talented draftee

So in regards to the trade/draft period, I wouldn't be putting all our eggs in one particular basket

In the same way, thinking, playing a certain number of younger players will be the difference between success or failure

Sides in our position, pick players on output, we aren't in rebuild mode, where we should be pouring games into youth, we are in win mode

This is why I’m pissed with the clubs current strategy, we are in win mode but are seemingly moving on solid players to bring in untried kids, it would be different if we were bringing in a player to replace Owies or Durdin or targeting Barass to help Weits but we didn’t do that either.

We finished 8th and looking unlikely to strengthen the best 23 during the trade period, our VFL team finished last (or thereabouts) and people think our youth and depth is good enough, other teams are strengthening and still taking picks to the draft.

My confidence in Austin has been slowly dying.

 

[Garters]

Last year WC paid a draft pick for Brockman from the Hawks even though they had pick 1 in the MSD, blew my mind, my issue with Austin is that he hasn’t made it seem to others that we will keep him and its been telegraphed that he wont be offered a deal, so no need to trade. I find this poor management from him, similar to what happened with Stocker and the same with Jack Martin.

Having a best 22 on the park is rare, the reality is Owies averages more goals than all the other smalls, more tackles than Durdin and Motlop, more possessions than Durdin.

The others might look better, probably should be better, but i dont see them being better yet.

His manager was the one that hit the press with the fact he had not been offered a contract. The press came up with the crazy 700k thing. Club nor player are on the record with any direction one way or another. Just symptomatic of this time of year.
Stocker was shopped around with no takers, Geelong pounced on Martin because he is a free call option, not prepared to pay.
Don't really buy into the narrative we let all this talent leave for free.
Regardless it is almost key, Owies, Kennedy (hate the idea) and one other are moved on to change the dynamic of the list. More I think about it, it needs to be done.

 

[HarryFlashman]

Seperate argument and discussion, posters are continually distorting facts to justify their position on Houston, there’s no need, Houston is 27, not 28, he’s not old.

No need to ask Melb anything, we have several long deals here and funnily enough, when our club does it, there’s not as much criticism.

He is not exactly a spring chicken for a 6 yr deal when his greatest asset is an elite attacking kick & explosive movement - exactly the kind of thing players with those attributes have trouble with nearing 30.
You brought up Pendles which is a ridiculous person to use in any argument- he’s a complete outlier in terms of longevity & injury.

 

[Stamos]

Understand the market place

What, worked harder to find a buyer?

 

[Arr0w]

This is why I’m pissed with the clubs current strategy, we are in win mode but are seemingly moving on solid players to bring in untried kids, it would be different if we were bringing in a player to replace Owies or Durdin or targeting Barass to help Weits but we didn’t do that either.

We finished 8th and looking unlikely to strengthen the best 23 during the trade period, our VFL team finished last (or thereabouts) and people think our youth and depth is good enough, other teams are strengthening and still taking picks to the draft.

My confidence in Austin has been slowly dying.

Still needs to be within our strategy

I'd pay a late ish 1st and 2nd for say a Houston, but would walk away if it cost us more

Barrass wants to join the million dollar club, I think that would be negligent by us

 

[Arr0w]

What, worked harder to find a buyer?

Owies could get more at other clubs, but could sacrifice some coin to stay, but the club should also compromise a little on their position

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Without forcing or nudging out players on the list we will be stuck in no mans land. While other teams may be making 'bigger' moves, us going to the draft to pick up elite young talents who actually fit the bill of what we need on our list (Speed and Footskills) is just as likely to be equally or more effective for our prospects going forward.

Is Kennedy a better player than a brand new 18 year old kid? Almost certainly... But Kennedy is part of the reason our list is so imbalanced. We have a surplus of big lumbering inside mids and as a whole our list lacks run and speed across the ground. Whether we take a backwards step for 12 months or the first half of the year next season is irrelevant in my eyes, it's a necessary evil.

Just as StK need to bottom out to finally fix their lack of star talent, we need to move on some quality players to change the make up of our list so its better suited to contend in the future - whether that be next year or the years after.

 

[DangerousD]

Stocker and Martin. If you have issue with either of those delisting's in hindsight I don't think we'll agree on anything related to this.

Owies will not be missed next season

Where have i said i have a problem with them being moved on, i have a problem with the club being so obvious that we dont want them anymore, thus diminishing their value.

Martin was picked up straight away, dont you think we could have pushed for a 4th round pick? Allowing us to package up ours in another deal maybe.

Stocker was a 1st round pick only a few years prior, players in that situation generally hold a small amount of value.

I get you dont really rate Owies or the above players, its not the point and its not why i and others are frustrated, its that other clubs can move fringe players and get some sort of return, yet we struggle.

 

[Stamos]

Owies could get more at other clubs, but could sacrifice some coin to stay, but the club should also compromise a little on their position

I don’t understand what you think the compromise would be?
We don’t have the list spots?

 

[no fate]

What's that (speed)?

I couldn't even watch most games fully through into the second half of the season due to our slow plodding style, terrible transition and by some way having the slowest team in the league.

My worry is we've ****ed up and it's not fixable now.

I hope it was just injuries/continuity but it seemed we just got smashed by teams playing fast football for the whole second half of the year. Teams that are not even very good. Was heartbreaking.

I have no faith we will fix this glaring deficiency in any meaningful way and have wasted an era having a top 3 mid, top 3 kpd and two top 10 key forwards.

I like some of this, but:

• Everything is fixable - a few new players, less injuries, rotations and some game plan tweaks could work wonders.
• Top 1 mid. No question.

 

[DangerousD]

He is not exactly a spring chicken for a 6 yr deal when his greatest asset is an elite attacking kick & explosive movement - exactly the kind of thing players with those attributes have trouble with nearing 30.
You brought up Pendles which is a ridiculous person to use in any argument- he’s a complete outlier in terms of longevity & injury.

I didn’t bring up Pendles, someone else did, stating Houston isn’t Pendles to which i responded that Houston will be 33 at the end of his deal, 3 years younger than Pendles is now.

33 isn’t an outlier for quality AFL players.

Do you have an issue with Harry and Charlies contracts?

 

[DangerousD]

Without forcing or nudging out players on the list we will be stuck in no mans land. While other teams may be making 'bigger' moves, us going to the draft to pick up elite young talents who actually fit the bill of what we need on our list (Speed and Footskills) is just as likely to be equally or more effective for our prospects going forward.

Is Kennedy a better player than a brand new 18 year old kid? Almost certainly... But Kennedy is part of the reason our list is so imbalanced. We have a surplus of big lumbering inside mids and as a whole our list lacks run and speed across the ground. Whether we take a backwards step for 12 months or the first half of the year next season is irrelevant in my eyes, it's a necessary evil.

Just as StK need to bottom out to finally fix their lack of star talent, we need to move on some quality players to change the make up of our list so its better suited to contend in the future - whether that be next year or the years after.

I think you’re spot on here and i see our discussion previously as seperate to this, for whatever reason i think we are getting rid of players for less than what other clubs are getting for the players they move on.

 

[Arr0w]

I don’t understand what you think the compromise would be?
We don’t have the list spots?

Do you think Owies is bottom 4-6 currently on our list? If he is asking overs, then fair enough, otherwise look at other options

We bemoan the lack of depth, and or trading capital, yet allow players that clearly have some value to possibly walk away for free

 

[DangerousD]

Still needs to be within our strategy

I'd pay a late ish 1st and 2nd for say a Houston, but would walk away if it cost us more

Barrass wants to join the million dollar club, I think that would be negligent by us

It doesnt have to be these two, I’m surprised by our lack of movement across several areas, obviously still a lot to play out, i actually thought there would be more movements happening across the board.

 

[Arr0w]

It doesnt have to be these two, I’m surprised by our lack of movement across several areas, obviously still a lot to play out, i actually thought there would be more movements happening across the board.

It will be a busy trade period across the league, just waiting for some of the bigger deals to get done