Bluemour Season Blast Off Edition XXXIII

[Blue and Blue]

He is our very own soothesayer.....hahahaha

 

[Cripptonite]

There is an article on AFL.com about a potential “salary dump” for North to take on Darcy Macpherson

44

Darcy Macpherson

Age

27

Ht

175cm

Wt

76kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.1

4star

K

9.3

4star

HB

5.8

4star

M

3.4

3star

T

4.9

5star

MG

187.8

3star

D

11.0

3star

K

6.3

3star

HB

4.8

3star

M

2.1

2star

T

2.5

3star

MG

137.3

2star

D

11.6

3star

K

6.2

3star

HB

5.4

4star

M

2.2

3star

T

4.8

5star

MG

113.6

2star

’s contract and also receive a pick upgrade.

Please correct me if I’m wrong but I’m sure we tried to do the same thing with Lobbe and Port a few years ago and the AFL denied the potential upgrade of picks for us.

 

[bigblueboy]

I'll start the negativity.............way too short..........next...........

Not enough e in Hart

 

[Kaladin Stormblessed]

On a different note, I spoke with a friend who works at a footy club (not ours). He absolutely ripped some of our off-season off-field moves as being '20 years behind the times'.

In particular: Greg Williams, who is very old school, tough love, and doesn't really have much sense of the new fandangled tactics or technical stuff (he also has a chronic brain disorder, not that should preclude people from working but hardly what you want). Voss as a coach is perceived as being a good bloke and motivator, but not so good with the tactical stuff or the development of players. Hamill - similar story there too - a 'motivator' rather than a teacher or

Basically, we're seen to be putting together a great 1990s coaching panel: good blokes, jobs for the boys, guys who keep it simple and call it as they see it etc, but a panel that is miles off in terms of tactical strength, use of data/analytics, and the modern side of things.

I'm not saying I agree necessarily with those sentiments at all - that's just what was conveyed to me. My take is we're hoping to address the cultural side of things first, and that to be honest, that might matter more given where we have been. Will we be better off with a 'roll the ball out and let them play' coaching staff who maybe don't develop the players or game plan? A club philosophy that is just 90s motivation?

With Voss, that actually worked ok with the veteran team he took over. They'd looked to be fading but he coaxed some life out of aging guys and initially had a decent run. But after 5 years, with the young guys notn nreally coming through and the old stars gone, it fell away a bit. For us: I reckon there's some hope there. We aren't a young team any more, and so much of our short-term success is going to be wrapped up in whether the new coach can get the best out of our mid-age players (24-30): Cripps, Weitering, Curnow, McKay, Docherty, Williams, Saad, Jones, Martin, McGovern, Hewitt (presumably), Pittonet, Newnes, Newman, Silvagni, etc. Throw in Walsh / Cerra as young guys who play with maturity and we really have a mature core that should be playing for premierships - we have very few untested/unproven young guys (and those who aren't on the list below have shown.... very little).

So I'm not doom and gloom about that assessment, nor do I speak about someone who is hugely influential, just an insider take.

Good post. I have very much the same concerns especially once you add in Cook.

Not to take away anything away from their individual skills. They are probably good operators on their own but clubs (and workplaces in general) need diversity. Age, gender, management style, critical thinking, analytics amongst all.

Hence been banging on about getting some fresh ideas and younger generation of assistants and football people to round out the department.

Cannot afford to stuff this round of appointments up. We are in for a dark dark period otherwise. Maybe no coming back from that if this rebuild is a bust.

 

[Sector 7G]

Did they? Where and when did they say this?

According to Sam Edmund at the start of September "Sydney has shown zero interest in re-signing him at this stage and that’s unlikely to change." . Swans tried to trade him last year with no takers.

 

[Stickitupthem]

We

Hope Sydney get something decent so we dont have to trade.

We won’t moan

Hope Sydney get something decent so we dont have to trade.

I wouldn’t worry they’ll get something decent from their plethora of endless academy picks

 

[katmanblue]

He is our very own soothesayer.....hahahaha

That reminds me.



On SM-F926B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

I honestly think lower averages are more due to lack of opportunity than lack of ability. Sydney’s midfield runs pretty deep, and the balance of veterans and kids would be hard to strike. Kennedy, Parker and Florent are mainstays, Heeney and Papley rotating through, Campbell, Warner, Gulden and Stephens needing some CB time. Compare that to our very shallow midfield pool and it’s easy to see why Hewett would see more opportunities with us.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

2019 F & B runner up. No fluke.

 

[Kings of Lygon]

Genuine question: are there any good AFL midfielders who showed as little as Dow/O'Brien in their first 4 years? I don't think either has a game that you can really point to where they had an impact (although I guess Dow did get a Brownlow vote this year in a bit of an odd match vs Freo)

I guess it really depends on how you rate the two of them, not very highly by the sounds of it. I think Dow has the better chance of the two and has shown really good glimpses, there are some fair enough question marks around O'Brien. Not letting them off the hook, but they were both extremely light on body wise when they came to us, makes a fair difference in the first few years. I'm concerned O'Brien doesn't look any bigger or more athletic than some draftees still to be honest, but I think a lot of people are a bit hysterical about them at times. I'm frustrated at their perceived lack of development too, but I think they still have time to become good AFL players.

As for slow starters to their AFL careers, there are a fair few that were persevered with and turned out well off the top of my head. Jobe Watson is probably the poster boy for it. I recall him being a bit of a chubby, nothing player for quite a number of years early on and was probably lucky his last name was Watson. Shane Edwards is one that stands out too. He was incredibly flakey early on and just seemed to float along, very maligned by Richmond supporters and low production albeit highly skilled. Dayne Zorko couldn't even get a go until he was 23. Dane Swan was playing VFL mostly and smashing KFC until he was well into his 20s. Ben Keays has taken until now to even be a consistently picked AFL player, was on the scrap heap at 21 and he's going pretty well. Darcy Parish hadn't had a good season really until this year and he's 24. Maybe that's a touch harsh because he played a fair bit, but he looked almost a bust 18 months ago. Brett Kirk, Jimmy Bartel & Luke Hodge to varying degrees took a while to turn the corner.

Our very own Edward Curnow we redrafted at 22 and kicked on from there, Andrew Carrazzo similar. I'm sure I've missed plenty.

Really important to remember that Dow hasn't even turned 22 yet and O'Brien did so last month. Very young players still.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

There is an article on AFL.com about a potential “salary dump” for North to take on Darcy Macpherson’s contract and also receive a pick upgrade.

Please correct me if I’m wrong but I’m sure we tried to do the same thing with Lobbe and Port a few years ago and the AFL denied the potential upgrade of picks for us.

Think the AFL changed the rules with the salary cap cuts. A few clubs are very tight at the moment.


Right as we finish our rebuild. . . SOS would’ve loved this.

 

[Earls Smother]

I honestly think lower averages are more due to lack of opportunity than lack of ability. Sydney’s midfield runs pretty deep, and the balance of veterans and kids would be hard to strike. Kennedy, Parker and Florent are mainstays, Heeney and Papley rotating through, Campbell, Warner, Gulden and Stephens needing some CB time. Compare that to our very shallow midfield pool and it’s easy to see why Hewett would see more opportunities with us.


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Mills and Rowbottom 2 others.

When Mills missed a bunch of games late in the year, Hewett's numbers went up. Swans fans would know better, but he seemed to be one back from their main rotations, but stepped up when given the opportunity.

 

[ABigOlDoofus]

Umm am i missing something
There is nothing special about Hewitt
His averages are worse than Kennedys

Almost as if you shouldn't base your analysis purely on stats...

Played a fair bit of footy outside of the middle, much more than Kennedy who has played pure mid apart from his stint as a medium forward.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

Wouldn't worry too much though as Mitch McGovern contract runs out this year

You sure about this???

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

I honestly think lower averages are more due to lack of opportunity than lack of ability. Sydney’s midfield runs pretty deep, and the balance of veterans and kids would be hard to strike. Kennedy, Parker and Florent are mainstays, Heeney and Papley rotating through, Campbell, Warner, Gulden and Stephens needing some CB time. Compare that to our very shallow midfield pool and it’s easy to see why Hewett would see more opportunities with us.


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Yep! Also one plays on ball in the square and the other tags and plays wing... Different positions.

 

[thylacine60]

2 years without a game for george hewett

29

George Hewett

Age

29

Ht

187cm

Wt

87kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.7

4star

K

7.4

3star

HB

10.3

5star

M

2.7

3star

T

4.1

5star

CL

3.3

5star

D

13.8

3star

K

4.8

2star

HB

9.0

4star

M

1.8

2star

T

3.2

4star

CL

2.8

4star

D

11.2

3star

K

7.8

3star

HB

3.4

3star

M

3.4

4star

T

4.0

5star

CL

0.4

3star

after being taken second round 2013..............they do develop the shit out of them, the swannies..........

 

[BigFrizz36]

You sure about this???

Whoops! From the end if 2018 not the start as I assumed. Still, depending on how he goes this year there will be options (e.g good year 2022 extend and average salary out, bad year/injuries look to trade whilst paying some of the salary.

 

[kjr8]

Genuine question: are there any good AFL midfielders who showed as little as Dow/O'Brien in their first 4 years? I don't think either has a game that you can really point to where they had an impact (although I guess Dow did get a Brownlow vote this year in a bit of an odd match vs Freo)

I agree on Dunstan - I don't really see him being the answer.

With Dow and O'Brien, the argument is that both still look like lost little boys when they play, and their development the last 2 yeasr has been stifled/ruined by our club and COVID not letting them get reserves time. I agree completely that another year for both makes sense, definitely more than adding Dunstan to clog the rotations.

I'm actually worried more that like this year we're adding too many guys, and it'll create positional congestion and problems.

In the midfield, we want time for Cripps, Walsh, Kennedy, and presumably Hewitt and Cerra. That only leaves 1-2 rotation spots - and yet Williams, Dow, Curnow, Fisher, Cuningham, Gibbons (if re-signed) would all have claims to time there.

Teague got caught in two minds between old stagers and young guys, and I hope the same doesn't happen for Voss. Better to simplify things so guys know where they stand...

Darcy from the bummers


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[Choc Milk]

I guess it really depends on how you rate the two of them, not very highly by the sounds of it. I think Dow has the better chance of the two and has shown really good glimpses, there are some fair enough question marks around O'Brien. Not letting them off the hook, but they were both extremely light on body wise when they came to us, makes a fair difference in the first few years. I'm concerned O'Brien doesn't look any bigger or more athletic than some draftees still to be honest, but I think a lot of people are a bit hysterical about them at times. I'm frustrated at their perceived lack of development too, but I think they still have time to become good AFL players.

As for slow starters to their AFL careers, there are a fair few that were persevered with and turned out well off the top of my head. Jobe Watson is probably the poster boy for it. I recall him being a bit of a chubby, nothing player for quite a number of years early on and was probably lucky his last name was Watson. Shane Edwards is one that stands out too. He was incredibly flakey early on and just seemed to float along, very maligned by Richmond supporters and low production albeit highly skilled. Dayne Zorko couldn't even get a go until he was 23. Dane Swan was playing VFL mostly and smashing KFC until he was well into his 20s. Ben Keays has taken until now to even be a consistently picked AFL player, was on the scrap heap at 21 and he's going pretty well. Darcy Parish hadn't had a good season really until this year and he's 24. Maybe that's a touch harsh because he played a fair bit, but he looked almost a bust 18 months ago. Brett Kirk, Jimmy Bartel & Luke Hodge to varying degrees took a while to turn the corner.

Our very own Edward Curnow we redrafted at 22 and kicked on from there, Andrew Carrazzo similar. I'm sure I've missed plenty.

Really important to remember that Dow hasn't even turned 22 yet and O'Brien did so last month. Very young players still.

I don't think we are going to drug obrien and dow up though.......

 

[Blue Reaper]

2 years without a game for george hewett after being taken second round 2013..............they do develop the sh*t out of them, the swannies..........

Only Carlton .... Oh wait.

 

[DangerousD]

I think they are two different issues. His body might be ok but we're not great at keeping players on the park - let alone take on someone with proven issues - sorry, that was my point.

Originally I thought he would have quite a bit of interest and I wasn’t interested in paying much for a depth player, but interest seems to be not there, which may point to further issues.

Other than this season, he’s been very durable for a long time, so it’s not like he’s had persistent injury concerns.

I do want to focus on players who can get on the park and stay there though.

 

[Justnetime]

Genuine question: are there any good AFL midfielders who showed as little as Dow/O'Brien in their first 4 years? I don't think either has a game that you can really point to where they had an impact (although I guess Dow did get a Brownlow vote this year in a bit of an odd match vs Freo)

Im the same on both of these. Lots of discussions get raised about Teague and Bolton or development killing these two players. And SPS. It is a really tough one as Walsh faced the same process and thrived.

I do think it is a combo. Walsh is an exception in that he trusts himself completely with his ability to find the ball thru elite running. The others don’t have that luxury So development and physical maturity is required. Despite allowing for a little bit of development blame I think all of Dow, SPS and LoB have limitations in the current landscape of the midfielder game. They don’t trust themselves so fail in a brutal sport.

If you look at examples of peers who turn it around, there are usually smatterings of games that illustrate the talent. Champion data’s ratings formula of using the ball well shows someone like Parish score well in odd games…just couldn’t put it together in all games or was played out of his preferred position.

Dow has never got a high champion data rating or even close to it. SPS had 1/2 good games but is just a very slow undersized inside mid who is not hard and who does dinky kicks. LoB can’t even rack them up in the VFL …I did really like his last game of 2021.

Maybe they need the authoritarian coach and not the soft communicator of Teague.

 

[Aphrodite]

Whoops! From the end if 2018 not the start as I assumed. Still, depending on how he goes this year there will be options (e.g good year 2022 extend and average salary out, bad year/injuries look to trade whilst paying some of the salary.

Contracted until end of 2023.

 

[DangerousD]

I guess it really depends on how you rate the two of them, not very highly by the sounds of it. I think Dow has the better chance of the two and has shown really good glimpses, there are some fair enough question marks around O'Brien. Not letting them off the hook, but they were both extremely light on body wise when they came to us, makes a fair difference in the first few years. I'm concerned O'Brien doesn't look any bigger or more athletic than some draftees still to be honest, but I think a lot of people are a bit hysterical about them at times. I'm frustrated at their perceived lack of development too, but I think they still have time to become good AFL players.

As for slow starters to their AFL careers, there are a fair few that were persevered with and turned out well off the top of my head. Jobe Watson is probably the poster boy for it. I recall him being a bit of a chubby, nothing player for quite a number of years early on and was probably lucky his last name was Watson. Shane Edwards is one that stands out too. He was incredibly flakey early on and just seemed to float along, very maligned by Richmond supporters and low production albeit highly skilled. Dayne Zorko couldn't even get a go until he was 23. Dane Swan was playing VFL mostly and smashing KFC until he was well into his 20s. Ben Keays has taken until now to even be a consistently picked AFL player, was on the scrap heap at 21 and he's going pretty well. Darcy Parish hadn't had a good season really until this year and he's 24. Maybe that's a touch harsh because he played a fair bit, but he looked almost a bust 18 months ago. Brett Kirk, Jimmy Bartel & Luke Hodge to varying degrees took a while to turn the corner.

Our very own Edward Curnow we redrafted at 22 and kicked on from there, Andrew Carrazzo similar. I'm sure I've missed plenty.

Really important to remember that Dow hasn't even turned 22 yet and O'Brien did so last month. Very young players still.

Whilst I’m sure you have missed many, you are talking about exceptions, outliers, players who have bucked the trend and of course it’s entirely possible that Dow, LOB, Setters or SPS come good with a new coach, position or environment, I’m hoping one or two do, I certainly don’t think they all will.

The 4 mentioned there, if they are at Carlton or anywhere else, are running out of time to turn things around and let’s hope they do.
But this Darcy Parish hadn’t had a good season until now, he looked like a bust and anytime someone says stuff like this, makes me scratch my head, last year was Parish’s worst season as an AFL player numbers wise, worse than his debut season, last year he averaged 19 possessions and 3 tackles, n shortened matches, every season before that, he averaged over 20 touches and 3 tackles, how can anyone who supports Carlton use Parish as an example of a draftee not coming on?

His worst season, is streets ahead of Dow’s, SPS, Setterfields, O’Brien’s, Stockers best.

 

[BlueTongue]

Would only take trade radio as a very very rough guide towards the truth.

I would imagine that with Cerra and Hewitt coming in we will be close to our cap this year. Wouldn't be surprised if part of the reason that sps is leaving is to clear enough cap space to make it work.

Wouldn't worry too much though as Mitch McGovern contract runs out this year and there are quite a few midfielders like Dow and Setterfield etc who are facing make or break years. Should be enough in 2023 to get Sam Walsh signed up.

Might mean that this is our last year to bring in big money free agents/trades for a bit and go back to the draft for next year.

2023 apparently: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/thre...-team-list-and-contract-status.368412/page-62

 

[ferrisb]

Some just sit on this thread all day & ignore other threads.

There are other threads?!?