Bluemour 'Silly Season' Edition XXXIV

[Juice030103]

According to Lloyd and kornes View attachment 1527224

To be fair cornes said he would put Carlton in there.


Lloyd is just a knob tho. In my view worse than cornes. He’s the biggest prisoner of the moment Analyst going round.

 

[carlton_99]

Lloyd is getting laughable at this point


Has Port as a premiership chance but not us. I mean it means nothing at all but gee for some reason that * scum really got on my nerves

Hard to win a flag with a list that doesn't have finals experience. The core list of Port have that.

 

[Sector 7G]

According to Lloyd and kornes View attachment 1527224

According to Lloyd and kornes

That's what you are relying on?

 

[Mezzoculo]

Backline: Docherty, Newman, Saad, Young, McGovern, Marchbank, Williams (Depth: Boyd, Plowman, Durdin)
Ruck: Pitto
Midfield: Kennedy, Cerra, Hewett, Acres (Depth: Setterfield)
Forward line: Martin

13 plus a few probable depth options.

That being said, I think Cookie is talking out his arse. The fact that he'd gone with "no more than 4-6 players" and had that immediately shot down with this year's premiers is a good indication that it's not a researched position, but a guesstimate.

There may still be truth to it. Having more success in developing your own players means they learn your system from the beginning of their career, they learn their teammates' games, you build your gameplan around what they offer over a longer period etc. Teams with a strong development program also tend to get better value from later picks (see Geelong this year).

However, that's not to say that a team with more players traded in can't win a flag. No way you can put a number on it though.

Yep. And I'd argue that the 'quality' of imports across the best 22 is important too - many of ours are players in the 10 to 20 bracket, so could easily be replaced by draftees over the coming seasons.
Definitely more complex than a simple head count of imported players...

 

[Sam The Doc]

According to Lloyd and kornes View attachment 1527224

So only teams who made the 8 this season can. On the fence much?!

 

[Arr0w]

According to Lloyd and kornes View attachment 1527224

Wondering what they think of the Lions

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Docherty, Marchbank, Kennedy, Plowman, Young etc barely count as imports. We've done near if not all of their development ourselves and the club wouldn't be paying them any different to anyone else that we've drafted. Players like Williams or Acres are different as they are established players and generally would have been paid overs to join (even though Acres is coming across as cheap as it gets).

The idea a team with too many non-drafted players can't win a flag is completely rubbish if they've been here since a very early age over an extended period of time. Mature age recruits is a different story but even then theres no set rule to win a premiership... Just like how Geelong won this year with the oldest team in history with plenty of mature age recruits.

 

[JustaBattler]

No team has ever won a GF without the right balance of blonde versus no blonde hair-coloured players and in the AFL era no team has ever won a flag with too many players favouring white Y front undies on Tuesdays.

 

[BlueTang]

If they don’t stand up this year could see us trading a…

JSOS
s for cover…
Kemp
Plowman
McGovern

Along with delisting a few…

I don't disagree with making some trades, but JSOS is like our own child (as supporters). The rest are mostly cousins in this analogy. You don’t trade Jsos, he's heart and soul Carlton. Reckon as a club we would stand to lose more by trading him. The SOS family are core Carlton, id be furious if we traded him.

McGov/Wiliams, it's like they married into us, if they leave so be it. Reckon thats why everyone was so disappointed when we lost Stocker, he was heart and soul and it was a cool way in which he was recruited

 

[branedotorg]

I don't disagree with making some trades, but JSOS is like our own child (as supporters). The rest are mostly cousins in this analogy. You don’t trade Jsos, he's heart and soul Carlton. Reckon as a club we would stand to lose more by trading him. The SOS family are core Carlton, id be furious if we traded him.

Players are assets, cold as it is, to build a successful team on. To use a different analogy they are livestock, not pets.

At some point Jack's journey at Carlton will end and the club will go on. Hope for his sake he can improve and continue in the side but it had be better on merit, not on name alone

 

[Coops93]

Players are assets, cold as it is, to build a successful team on. To use a different analogy they are livestock, not pets.

At some point Jack's journey at Carlton will end and the club will go on. Hope for his sake he can improve and continue in the side but it had be better on merit, not on name alone

I don't think it is that cold anymore. It used to be but now more than ever clubs are creating an environment whereby the cold reality of business is pushed to the side as much as reasonably possible in favour of a stable and comforting environment. It's interesting as that doesn't seem to be the trend in any other major sport globally.

Shafting a favourite son of the fans and team mates as well as the a large figure in the history of the club in the name of incremental improvement would do more damage than good to the supporter base and the culture. Imo, obviously.

 

[Bletch]

On a side note, saw this 82 premiership 40 year reunion thing pop up on my Facebook. My grandpa always mentions how that side was the best we ever had but I don’t know many of the names.

Just interested to see what you “oldies” think

Really strong side (as you'd expect with 3 premierships in 4 years). Best ever? Hard to say, '95 was faultless. '68 to '72 would be up there too. And I imagine 1906-08 must have been pretty good!! But '79 through '82 is certainly up there.


Backline. Tough, uncompromising. Reliable, not flashy. Star-studded forward line. That half-forward line would be hard to beat in any era. And really strong on-ball group. It's the tail-end of our "mosquito fleet" era. Ashman, Marcou, Johnston, Buckley, Sheldon and Harmes. A premiership team built around this brilliant group of smalls, rather than the traditional key talls that dominated most premiership teams of the era.

 

[Juice030103]

Really strong side (as you'd expect with 3 premierships in 4 years). Best ever? Hard to say, '95 was faultless. '68 to '72 would be up there too. And I imagine 1906-08 must have been pretty good!! But '79 through '82 is certainly up there.

View attachment 1527275
Backline. Tough, uncompromising. Reliable, not flashy. Star-studded forward line. That half-forward line would be hard to beat in any era. And really strong on-ball group. It's the tail-end of our "mosquito fleet" era. Ashman, Marcou, Johnston, Buckley, Sheldon and Harmes. A premiership team built around this brilliant group of smalls, rather than the traditional key talls that dominated most premiership teams of the era.

Let’s hope that this team can have similar success


Thinks it’s in them to hold the cup

 

[teagueyubeauty]

Backline: Docherty, Newman, Saad, Young, McGovern, Marchbank, Williams (Depth: Boyd, Plowman, Durdin)
Ruck: Pitto
Midfield: Kennedy, Cerra, Hewett, Acres (Depth: Setterfield)
Forward line: Martin

13 plus a few probable depth options.

That being said, I think Cookie is talking out his arse. The fact that he'd gone with "no more than 4-6 players" and had that immediately shot down with this year's premiers is a good indication that it's not a researched position, but a guesstimate.

There may still be truth to it. Having more success in developing your own players means they learn your system from the beginning of their career, they learn their teammates' games, you build your gameplan around what they offer over a longer period etc. Teams with a strong development program also tend to get better value from later picks (see Geelong this year).

However, that's not to say that a team with more players traded in can't win a flag. No way you can put a number on it though.

All that tells me is we’ve done well to plug the drafting hole of some prime picks between 2016 and 2019.

You can’t keep buying in good players, the salary cap can’t handle it. Draft picks are cheap for 4-5 years.

We have to nail our prime picks of 10 & 28 this year and start finding good players from the chaff of later in the draft and rookie draft like we were so good at doing through the noughties

I’m confident in Durdin making it, he’s a ripper that I hope starts to get some time in the middle, Motlop looks the goods though still too early. Not sold on Carroll but recognise he’s still very young and has shown quite a bit in the 2’s. But it’s the prime picks that matter the most


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[Benaly28]

If they don’t stand up this year could see us trading a…

JSOS
s for cover…
Kemp
Plowman
McGovern

Along with delisting a few…

Plowman is worth 0.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Benaly28]

Lloyd is getting laughable at this point


Has Port as a premiership chance but not us. I mean it means nothing at all but gee for some reason that * scum really got on my nerves

I like Lloyd for speaking his truth but to not have us in the conversation for flag contenders but have port and dogs ahead of us is just crazy.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Kramer1]

I like Lloyd for speaking his truth but to not have us in the conversation for flag contenders but have port and dogs ahead of us is just crazy.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Crazy we're not in the conversation for flag contenders?

Let's play a final first.

 

[Michael Jezz]

Docherty, Marchbank, Kennedy, Plowman, Young etc barely count as imports. We've done near if not all of their development ourselves and the club wouldn't be paying them any different to anyone else that we've drafted. Players like Williams or Acres are different as they are established players and generally would have been paid overs to join (even though Acres is coming across as cheap as it gets).

The idea a team with too many non-drafted players can't win a flag is completely rubbish if they've been here since a very early age over an extended period of time. Mature age recruits is a different story but even then theres no set rule to win a premiership... Just like how Geelong won this year with the oldest team in history with plenty of mature age recruits.

Your analysis is personal opinion over evidence based historical fact

 

[JustaBattler]

Point made then

We'll start 2023 with roughly 12 of our best 22 from other clubs

It's disproportionate and not a good indicator

All the regular attendees in finals have had their own VFL teams and development personnel for decades - Carlton decided it was a good idea - 2 years ago. Your observations are valid - but lagging indicators.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Your analysis is personal opinion over evidence based historical fact

Compared to 'You can't win a premiership if 1/2 of your team aren't drafted by the original team' ... That's not fact that's just hogwash.

It may be historically true that teams with a high number of imports haven't won, but in no way does that mean it's impossible to do so.

 

[Stamos]

National Recruiting Manager
Old Avondale Heights mate of Liddle and Lloyd

But he only got made National Recruiting Manager in 2020.
He's been in charge for the last 2 drafts, before that is was Brodie.

 

[Earls Smother]

Docherty, Marchbank, Kennedy, Plowman, Young etc barely count as imports. We've done near if not all of their development ourselves and the club wouldn't be paying them any different to anyone else that we've drafted. Players like Williams or Acres are different as they are established players and generally would have been paid overs to join (even though Acres is coming across as cheap as it gets).

The idea a team with too many non-drafted players can't win a flag is completely rubbish if they've been here since a very early age over an extended period of time. Mature age recruits is a different story but even then theres no set rule to win a premiership... Just like how Geelong won this year with the oldest team in history with plenty of mature age recruits.

The odd thing is we embarked on a full-blown rebuild i.e. strip right back, get as many high picks as you can and hit the draft. We should have a higher number than usual of drafted players in our team.

We could potentially win a flag next year with only 4 guys drafted during the SOS era playing - Weitering, Charlie, Harry and Walsh.

Obviously there would likely be a few of Cuningham, JSOS, Fisher, TDK, O'Brien and Cottrell added to that, but individually none of those are certainties to be in our best side.

The real imbalance with us is, the traded in players are simply better than most of our high draft picks, which really shouldn't be the case.

 

[bigdog43]

Lloyd is getting laughable at this point


Has Port as a premiership chance but not us. I mean it means nothing at all but gee for some reason that * scum really got on my nerves

We have not achieved anything in 20 years. Until we stand up on the big stage we do not deserve to be in the conversation.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

The odd thing is we embarked on a full-blown rebuild i.e. strip right back, get as many high picks as you can and hit the draft. We should have a higher number than usual of drafted players in our team.

We could potentially win a flag next year with only 4 guys drafted during the SOS era playing - Weitering, Charlie, Harry and Walsh.

Obviously there would likely be a few of Cuningham, JSOS, Fisher, TDK, O'Brien and Cottrell added to that, but individually none of those are certainties to be in our best side.

The real imbalance with us is, the traded in players are simply better than most of our high draft picks, which really shouldn't be the case.

Well you must remember we've had a few genuine busts in SPS and Dow and a lot of our 2nd round picks over those years were used on bringing in high draft picks from other clubs that were in a similar position to Dow and Setterfield are for us right now.

But as I said, where a player was drafted has no effect on their output. Kennedy shows more heart and passion for the jumper than players like Dow or Cuningham and would also be on a bare minimum contract. Marchbank, Docherty, Newman... these are Carlton players now and where they began their careers really has no impact on their careers at our club.

 

[tarczonandjane]

All the regular attendees in finals have had their own VFL teams and development personnel for decades - Carlton decided it was a good idea - 2 years ago. Your observations are valid - but lagging indicators.

And let’s not forget that 2020 and 2021 were basically wipeout years for the seconds competition. It was like a double whammy for us… we basically wised up to the importance of development and started to resource it properly, and then a global pandemic laid our efforts to waste.