Bluemour 'Silly Season' Edition XXXIV

[BigFrizz36]

* that's depressing reading.

Might be if it was true.

 

[rp84]

It's a sport though, which must adhere to some kind of equality, not really comparable to regular employment.
Change occupations if it is unsuitable.

Correct. Happens to military and medical people all the time. Engineers. I'm sure there's heaps of other examples.

AFLPA has developed way too much power. If the AFL isn't bullshitting about a fair and equitable league, then they need to reign it in.

Otherwise just do away with salary caps and let all the big clubs have at it. Don't think anyone wants the EPL model.

I find it nauseating all these little ****ing tossbags crying to go home after a couple years. There's the odd occasion there is a somewhat reasonable reason but it's exceedingly rare.

 

[rp84]

Might be if it was true.

That exact scenario is not gospel but the idea that anything other than that one draft was even barely acceptable is a fallacy.

Thank **** they couldn't not pick walsh.

The whole rest of it is incredibly depressing.

 

[teddy-hopkins]

Our drafting has been honestly quite atrocious since 2015 but that one is likely to haunt us for 15 years...

Good selections 2016 onwards:

2016 (9 players taken):
27 Zac Fisher

2017 (7):
30 Tom De Koning

2018 (7):
1 Sam Walsh

2019 (7):
3 (R) Josh Honey

2020 (3):
37 Corey Durdin (maybe Carroll)

2021 (5):
19 (mid) Jordan Boyd
27 Jesse Motlop

So we've taken 38 players in that time with 7 of those turning into good players - not to say others are a complete bust. Still plenty of time for Mirkov, Kemp, Philp, etc. But that's 18% strike rate which seems pretty poor and flicking through a couple of other clubs records I think we're still well behind.

Goes to show how important 2015 was to the club. 4 of the 8 selections weren't just good they were outstanding. Without that one draft from SOS we'd be well and truly up 5h!t creek right now.

I hope when the soft cap expands we throw a LOT more money at recruitment and poach someone to replace Agresta.

 

[Beyond Blue]

Good selections 2016 onwards:

2016 (9 players taken):
27 Zac Fisher

2017 (7):
30 Tom De Koning

2018 (7):
1 Sam Walsh

2019 (7):
3 (R) Josh Honey

2020 (3):
37 Corey Durdin (maybe Carroll)

2021 (5):
19 (mid) Jordan Boyd
27 Jesse Motlop

So we've taken 38 players in that time with 7 of those turning into good players - not to say others are a complete bust. Still plenty of time for Mirkov, Kemp, Philp, etc. But that's 18% strike rate which seems pretty poor and flicking through a couple of other clubs records I think we're still well behind.

Goes to show how important 2015 was to the club. 4 of the 8 selections weren't just good they were outstanding. Without that one draft from SOS we'd be well and truly up 5h!t creek right now.

I hope when the soft cap expands we throw a LOT more money at recruitment and poach someone to replace Agresta.

Josh Honey? Gee you’re easily pleased if you think he has been a good pick up.

That said I also think Agresta needs to go.

Just need to swallow our pride and grab Walls’ son from the Dockers.

He has performed brilliantly in multiple drafts with early and late picks.

 

[The Blue Weirdo]

Correct. Happens to military and medical people all the time. Engineers. I'm sure there's heaps of other examples.

AFLPA has developed way too much power. If the AFL isn't bullshitting about a fair and equitable league, then they need to reign it in.

Otherwise just do away with salary caps and let all the big clubs have at it. Don't think anyone wants the EPL model.

I find it nauseating all these little ******* tossbags crying to go home after a couple years. There's the odd occasion there is a somewhat reasonable reason but it's exceedingly rare.

Any player entering the league should agree to a waiver that acknowledges the leagues rules to some kind of equalization.
The AFLPA's power's should only exist when clubs over step this line.

 

[teddy-hopkins]

Plus as I've said before it's not true. We had Jones with about 5 years left on the clock and Weitering with 8+ at that time so no great need with a high draft pick KPD. Can't recall any suggestion that SDK was on our radar at the time. Unfortunately things didn't pan out as we thought that they would. Still holding out hope for Kemp though.

I know we were probably after run around the midfield but that was a result of Samo / Dow / LOB / etc. not really working - which again is poor recruiting.

We slid back from the pick where we could have taken Kozy Pickett (to get Kemp+Philp) and then the very next year declared we needed a small forward and went for Durdin. So any way you cut the recruiting since 2015 has been patchy at best.

Just as an example the Dogs 2016 draft wins from 6 picks:
19 Timothy English
28 Patrick Lipinski
49 Lewis Young

9 Aaron Naughton
16 Ed Richards
25 (r) Roarke Smith

6 from 11 players taken - 55% hit rate versus our 18%.

 

[Red_man2008]

Good selections 2016 onwards:

2016 (9 players taken):
27 Zac Fisher

2017 (7):
30 Tom De Koning

2018 (7):
1 Sam Walsh

2019 (7):
3 (R) Josh Honey

2020 (3):
37 Corey Durdin (maybe Carroll)

2021 (5):
19 (mid) Jordan Boyd
27 Jesse Motlop

So we've taken 38 players in that time with 7 of those turning into good players - not to say others are a complete bust. Still plenty of time for Mirkov, Kemp, Philp, etc. But that's 18% strike rate which seems pretty poor and flicking through a couple of other clubs records I think we're still well behind.

Goes to show how important 2015 was to the club. 4 of the 8 selections weren't just good they were outstanding. Without that one draft from SOS we'd be well and truly up 5h!t creek right now.

I hope when the soft cap expands we throw a LOT more money at recruitment and poach someone to replace Agresta.

Obrien
Cotterell
Owies
All good decisions

 

[teddy-hopkins]

Josh Honey? Gee you’re easily pleased if you think he has been a good pick up.

That said I also think Agresta needs to go.

Just need to swallow our pride and grab Walls’ son from the Dockers.

He has performed brilliantly in multiple drafts with early and late picks.

It's all subjective but I think Honey will be a good player and for a 2nd round rookie draft I think it was a good pick.

Walls??? Why would you replace our Recruiting Manager with a List Manager? And why would Walls want a demotion?

If the soft cap goes up we should spend all of that extra cash on recruiters. And poach the best Recruiting Manager out there.

 

[SurreyBlue]

Don't give üp on Philp. Kid can play..needs 2 get fit.
Absolute ripping kid as well. 100% perfect attitude
Just needs some luck with injuries.

This can be said about many on our current list, incl. 1 or 2 being pushed out, or even let go.

 

[teddy-hopkins]

Obrien
Cotterell
Owies
All good decisions

Borderline. I'd maybe give you Cotterell. For a supplemental pick he's done really well but I suspect Acres and Cerra/Walsh play wings next year which could kill off O'Brien/Cotterell.

Love Owies but he's just not quick enough to play small forward so can't see it working out.

Good depth players though.

 

[Stamos]

I hope when the soft cap expands we throw a LOT more money at recruitment and poach someone to replace Agresta.

That said I also think Agresta needs to go.

Agresta has been in charge for 2 drafts, and had a total of 3 ND picks (all of which look good).
Why are you potting him?

 

[DangerousD]

It's a sport though, which must adhere to some kind of equality, not really comparable to regular employment.
Change occupations if it is unsuitable.

On equality, the NRL have no draft, no trades, yet the teams seem to cycle through periods of success, a better spread of clubs have premierships in a league where players can just go where they want.

 

[btdg]

Not sure if that was what happened though. We had Jones and Weitering as our key backs and it looked to be a position that we didn't really have a need to spend draft capital on. Of course we weren't to know that their was a pandemic to come and that Jones would refuse to be vaccinated. The Dogs believe that he will be good for another 3 years and if so we wouldnt have needed a high price KPD till 2025.

At the time there was no prior discussion that we had an interest in SDK. We were very allegedly keen on Hayden Young and to a lesser extent Serong. When they were both gone before our pick SOS put in bids on Henry and Green which were both matched and then decided to split and trade down as he wanted Kemp and thought that he would still be available due to injury.

It's also worth remembering that there were 18 picks taken before SDK not just our one pick. If we had a crystal ball and the benefit of hindsight SDK would have been a great pick. Sadly we didn't have either.

Jones was 28 at the time and we were paper thin - our key defensive backups were really just Ben Silvagni and Hugh Goddard. Perfect time to take a guy like De Koning. In a similar vein of thought, this year would be the perfect time to look at a longer term prospect key position forward (who could spend 2-3 years developing, backing up Curnow/McKay and provide injury insurance...) if one were available, and particularly if it was one with the pedigree of De Koning.

I remember a bit of discussion on De Koning and also remember the draft live. Everyone knew we wanted Kemp... my point is that it was a massive mistake. At the time, I was screaming to go for De Koning (it just made so much sense...), and we had that second pick for Kemp (who lets face it, was a massive risk).

Yes, other clubs passed on De Koning too... they didn't have the connection to him that we did. In my view it was a no brainer at the time and its going to be brutal to watch for the next decade.

 

[teddy-hopkins]

Agresta has been in charge for 2 drafts, and had a total of 3 ND picks (all of which look good).
Why are you potting him?

He has been there for nearly 5 years but a fair point he wasn't recruiting manager for the bulk of that time.

I would like to see us get very aggressive in the recruitment space though - and that includes poaching the best Recruitment Manager out there.

Why are under-resourced clubs like the dogs so much better at it than us? And there is no question in my mind that they are. It's been our biggest issue since the VFL became the AFL.

 

[Stamos]

He has been there for nearly 5 years but a fair point he wasn't recruiting manager for the bulk of that time.

I would like to see us get very aggressive in the recruitment space though - and that includes poaching the best Recruitment Manager out there.

Why are under-resourced clubs like the dogs so much better at it than us? And there is no question in my mind that they are. It's been our biggest issue since the VFL became the AFL.

If the Dogs are so much better at recruitment, why is their best KPD their newly acquired 32 year old Liam Jones?

 

[btdg]

Good selections 2016 onwards:

2016 (9 players taken):
27 Zac Fisher

2017 (7):
30 Tom De Koning

2018 (7):
1 Sam Walsh

2019 (7):
3 (R) Josh Honey

2020 (3):
37 Corey Durdin (maybe Carroll)

2021 (5):
19 (mid) Jordan Boyd
27 Jesse Motlop

So we've taken 38 players in that time with 7 of those turning into good players - not to say others are a complete bust. Still plenty of time for Mirkov, Kemp, Philp, etc. But that's 18% strike rate which seems pretty poor and flicking through a couple of other clubs records I think we're still well behind.

Goes to show how important 2015 was to the club. 4 of the 8 selections weren't just good they were outstanding. Without that one draft from SOS we'd be well and truly up 5h!t creek right now.

I hope when the soft cap expands we throw a LOT more money at recruitment and poach someone to replace Agresta.

I think even your categorisation of 'good players' is extremely generous. Walsh is a star. Fisher is fine. De Koning is fine, but 5 years in the system and still not really 'proven' at any position isn't any more than that.

The rest... Honey, Durdin, Boyd, Motlop - I guess if you are being really generous, but out of those I think only Motlop has shown what I'd like to see. Kemp, Philp, Mirkov aren't far off busts either....

Agreed completely on 2015. Take that out and you can go back to:
2014: lets just completely erase this debacle from memory
2013: Cripps was a good pick, otherwise awful
2012: Yikes... I guess Nick Graham counts as a solid late selection?
2011: Bootsma? No wait, that was hideous. Tom Bell in the rookie draft is solid
2010: OH my god this one is a bad draft... 11 players, but at least redeemed by Ed Curnow in the rookie draft
2009: A horrid start (Kane Lucas, Marcus Davies, Rohan Kerr) followed by some really good rookie drafting (Casboult, Touhy, Simon White along with 3 other flubbed picks)

Take out 2015 and you can go back 13 years and sum it up as:
- Walsh and Cripps are excellent first round picks
-Zach Fisher, Tom De Koning, Lochie O'Brien are the only 'solid' picks from roughly 4000 attempts inside the top 30 (plus Durdin/Motlop etc where its probably early to tell)
- Outside the top 30, from roughly 500000 picks in the national and rookie drafts we can point to Nick Graham, Tom Bell, and Ed Curnow.

2015 was a gold-rush but yikes that is a woeful history. I'd wager we could have done better just by 'autodrafting' using the next player up in Knightmare's rankings or similar.

 

[Jeremias]

Josh Honey? Gee you’re easily pleased if you think he has been a good pick up.

The guy has played senior footy and likely would have played a fair bit more had it not been for injury.

What more could we possibly have expected from someone taken in the rookie draft? Who taken after him has done anything of note, let alone more than him?

He was a good pick. You're simply being absurdly critical of the club if you think he hasn't been.

 

[Jeremias]

Kemp over De Koning was an all time howler of a decision imo.

Probably no real need to continue on from here. The kid is 21 and missed a year of footy through injury.

 

[teddy-hopkins]

I think even your categorisation of 'good players' is extremely generous. Walsh is a star. Fisher is fine. De Koning is fine, but 5 years in the system and still not really 'proven' at any position isn't any more than that.

The rest... Honey, Durdin, Boyd, Motlop - I guess if you are being really generous, but out of those I think only Motlop has shown what I'd like to see. Kemp, Philp, Mirkov aren't far off busts either....

Agreed completely on 2015. Take that out and you can go back to:
2014: lets just completely erase this debacle from memory
2013: Cripps was a good pick, otherwise awful
2012: Yikes... I guess Nick Graham counts as a solid late selection?
2011: Bootsma? No wait, that was hideous. Tom Bell in the rookie draft is solid
2010: OH my god this one is a bad draft... 11 players, but at least redeemed by Ed Curnow in the rookie draft
2009: A horrid start (Kane Lucas, Marcus Davies, Rohan Kerr) followed by some really good rookie drafting (Casboult, Touhy, Simon White along with 3 other flubbed picks)

Take out 2015 and you can go back 13 years and sum it up as:
- Walsh and Cripps are excellent first round picks
-Zach Fisher, Tom De Koning, Lochie O'Brien are the only 'solid' picks from roughly 4000 attempts inside the top 30 (plus Durdin/Motlop etc where its probably early to tell)
- Outside the top 30, from roughly 500000 picks in the national and rookie drafts we can point to Nick Graham, Tom Bell, and Ed Curnow.

2015 was a gold-rush but yikes that is a woeful history. I'd wager we could have done better just by 'autodrafting' using the next player up in Knightmare's rankings or similar.

One small excuse has been that we've gotten what are effectively discounted draftees in Kennedy, Cerra, Setters (ok he could be gone soon), Marchbank (the recruiters wouldn't have known he'd be injured all the time), Doc, etc. where we've been able to exchange draft capital for former high draft picks only 2 years into their careers.

That's a list management decision but does mean the recruiters are picking from further back in those drafts.

 

[My Hat]

Correct. Happens to military and medical people all the time. Engineers. I'm sure there's heaps of other examples.

AFLPA has developed way too much power. If the AFL isn't bullshitting about a fair and equitable league, then they need to reign it in.

Otherwise just do away with salary caps and let all the big clubs have at it. Don't think anyone wants the EPL model.

I find it nauseating all these little ******* tossbags crying to go home after a couple years. There's the odd occasion there is a somewhat reasonable reason but it's exceedingly rare.

Just to be clear, does your list of nauseating little ******* tossbags include people like Adam Cerra and Sam Docherty?

 

[Beyond Blue]

Agresta has been in charge for 2 drafts, and had a total of 3 ND picks (all of which look good).
Why are you potting him?

He has been at the club for 5 years. What was his role before that?

 

[TENACIOUS]

Correct. Happens to military and medical people all the time. Engineers. I'm sure there's heaps of other examples.

AFLPA has developed way too much power. If the AFL isn't bullshitting about a fair and equitable league, then they need to reign it in.

Otherwise just do away with salary caps and let all the big clubs have at it. Don't think anyone wants the EPL model.

I find it nauseating all these little ******* tossbags crying to go home after a couple years. There's the odd occasion there is a somewhat reasonable reason but it's exceedingly rare.

It's the environment you put them in...
We don't have a problem with kids wanting to go home and we don't have a problem draft interstate players...

31% of our list is from interstate...

WA
Cripps, Motlop, Carroll, McGovern, Martin & Fisher

NSW
Williams (Vic Border), Kennedy & Setterfield (Vic Border)

SA
C.Durdin, Hewett, Young & S.Durdin,

 

[Manhattanite]

Kemp over De Koning was an all time howler of a decision imo.

De Koning was a prospect who filled a clear need in terms of list balance, had tremendous upside, good character, and his brother played for us. An obvious first selection after we traded back. Kemp had suffered a knee reconstruction, has no clear position or particular skill set at afl level (not that he's a bad player, but he doesn't stand out at anything).

I still believe that we simply got too clever. We intended on drafting De Koning, thought that Geelong had no interest, and felt Kemp too good to pass up because he was a top 10 rated prospect who slid due to injury. We took Kemp, expecting De Koning to be there 3 picks later, got wind he might not be and traded up, then panicked a bit when De Koning was gone and reached for Philp (who was really someone to look at with our next pick at 34 and a reach where we took him).

Our drafting has been honestly quite atrocious since 2015 but that one is likely to haunt us for 15 years...

I don’t think this is right at all…

From memory we wanted to pick up someone like Young or Serong with our pick 11 but once they went we decided we would go for Kemp so we traded 11 down to 17 and 22

We picked up Kemp with 17 as intended and SDK was always linked with Geelong so we thought he would go there and from memory we had no interest in him so early

We then moved up from 22 to 20 as we believed that Richmond would take Philp with pick 21 as he had been connected to them. Richmond then ended up with the other brother available - Thomson Dow.

So yes we considered Kemp better than SDK and no Philp wasn’t going to be available later on


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[GoBlues!]

If the Dogs are so much better at recruitment, why is their best KPD their newly acquired 32 year old Liam Jones?

Stamos, maybe we’re just better at unearthing 28 year olds and developing their full potential so they peak at 32…