Bluemour 'Silly Season' Edition XXXIV

[branedotorg]

Thoughts on us helping Freo with the Jackson deal. 10 and 66 for 13 and future second that’s the kangaroos afl compo pick?

I would assuming we aren't fixated on a particular player this year

 

[Matty411]

Thoughts on us helping Freo with the Jackson deal. 10 and 66 for 13 and future second that’s the kangaroos afl compo pick?

Like the way you think, Doctor. Then try to flip that 2nd and pick 49 back into the top rung for a team that might want future stocks.

 

[Stamos]

Wasn’t SOS list manager before Austin?

No, SOS was General Manager of List Management and Strategy.

 

[Beyond Blue]

How does Nick Haynes fill a need for us?

We already have many similar type tall defenders, l would suggest this would not be a need for us.

He doesn’t. Same goes for Whitfield and Bowes. There’s a case for Greene as we lack a quality small forward but he will break the bank so hopefully we aren’t entertaining that either. People on here are stretching because they are impatient and have FOMO so they want us to be involved in deals we don’t need to be involved in. Cook, Voss, Austin et al I have been pretty clear post season what we are trying to achieve with the list and IMO it sounded good. I’d actually be disappointed if we got seduced into deviating from that plan by taking a big name. Acres was a great piece of opportunistic needs based recruiting. We have some other list needs (KPP depth, half forward) but hopefully what we address those in the draft.

 

[TENACIOUS]

A lot of pining for SDK going on. Yes he's better than Young, but Weiters + Young is still a damn solid KPD combination.

I'm more annoyed that we've thrown so much draft capital at wings and small forwards, yet we still don't have those positions sorted out (the eternal optimist hopes acres + lob + durdin + motlop work out, but it's still unproven).

Not sure if it's the want of SDK or more the fear of losing TDK...

Durdin and Motlop are young and going to take some time...
If we do look at Hollands at pick 11 and have brought in Acres, I'm confused as to why LOB and to a lesser extent Cottrell (Can play forward or tag)
got 2x years extension... Pecking order would be Acres, Hollands, Cerra, Walsh, LOB, Cottrell...

 

[Beyond Blue]

It's all subjective but I think Honey will be a good player and for a 2nd round rookie draft I think it was a good pick.

Walls??? Why would you replace our Recruiting Manager with a List Manager? And why would Walls want a demotion?

If the soft cap goes up we should spend all of that extra cash on recruiters. And poach the best Recruiting Manager out there.

Fair call.
The ship has probably sailed on Walls unless he came back to replace Austin which I doubt will happen as Austin is doing ok generally.
I understand yours and Jeremias’ views on Honey - not a bad pick in terms of draft capital used to get him - but I think he’ll be gone by the end of 2023 all the same.

 

[BigFrizz36]

Wonder if we could get Nick Haynes cheaply ?
Good solid player who would definitely fill a need for us.

You'd be taking on a big contract in a position that we have no need to boost. Solid no for me. Good player though.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Just what we need another 3rd tall defender. We could have the tallest back 6 in history. The position we have way too much cover in.

I do think that Haynes in would give us the leadership and organisation that we need down back, currently being provided by Newman. In turn, we could replace Newman in the side with Boyd who I think gives us the small lockdown defender we need as well as another quality distributor.

Newman, Weitering, Marchbank
Saad, Young, McGovern
(I/C: Williams)

vs.

Boyd, Weitering, Haynes
Saad, Young, McGovern*
(I/C: Williams)

*Could have Marchy here, but I've gone with Gov as the better offensive option to complement Weiters/Young/Haynes. Swinging Gov forward again and keep Marchy in the side would be another option. I have Doc further upfield in this scenario.

I want Boyd in the side, but I don't see how he fits alongside Saad, Williams and Newman, given Newman has shown himself to be our best defensive organiser. I'd love Weiters to take the reins more, but I think maybe he has his hands full (mentally) dealing with the best KPF each week.

 

[JuddgementDay]

I would like to see how Kemp, Philp and Carroll goes in 2023 before being to harsh on our recent recruits.

Kemp in particular, hopefully should step up and lock in a best 22 position

 

[Sector 7G]

I do think that Haynes in would give us the leadership and organisation that we need down back, currently being provided by Newman. In turn, we could replace Newman in the side with Boyd who I think gives us the small lockdown defender we need as well as another quality distributor.

Newman, Weitering, Marchbank
Saad, Young, McGovern
(I/C: Williams)

vs.

Boyd, Weitering, Haynes
Saad, Young, McGovern*
(I/C: Williams)

*Could have Marchy here, but I've gone with Gov as the better offensive option to complement Weiters/Young/Haynes. Swinging Gov forward again and keep Marchy in the side would be another option. I have Doc further upfield in this scenario.

I want Boyd in the side, but I don't see how he fits alongside Saad, Williams and Newman, given Newman has shown himself to be our best defensive organiser. I'd love Weiters to take the reins more, but I think maybe he has his hands full (mentally) dealing with the best KPF each week.

You left Doc out.

Haynes looked cooked this year with his worst season statistically since 2015. Will come with a salary we can't afford and I don't think he has shown leadership this season. We need to plug holes not increase depth in our VFL. Even if he does make our best 22 it will push a good player into the 2s. He is not replacing Plow (which would make us better) but Marchy or MMcG

 

[HarryFlashman]

A question- how is it that there has been no talk of Plow being shopped around for a trade?
Would have thought he had some value & is pretty much surplus to needs moving forward

 

[RPCB]

You can go crazy trying to come up with “strike rates” of good draft picks between a 5+ year period. I mean do most clubs in the competition and it’s probably the same as what Carlton’s would be.

And admittedly I have done the “Kemp over SDK, WTF were we thinking?” thing but there is no changing that. So we have to get over it and hope Kemp turns into what we hope he will become. But look at it this way, you can look at the drafting of most clubs, in every draft and say they should have selected another player instead of the one that they did, it doesn’t have to be in the 1st Round.

 

[Benaly28]

I would like to see how Kemp, Philp and Carroll goes in 2023 before being to harsh on our recent recruits.

Kemp in particular, hopefully should step up and lock in a best 22 position

They’re the big watch next season.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[carlton_99]

Not sure the name of the person with Cooney on Trade Radio but he just said "Dow is well paid, I am not saying 500K a year, but not far off". Hmm

 

[bmaurizio]

Fair call.
The ship has probably sailed on Walls unless he came back to replace Austin which I doubt will happen as Austin is doing ok generally.
I understand yours and Jeremias’ views on Honey - not a bad pick in terms of draft capital used to get him - but I think he’ll be gone by the end of 2023 all the same.

Yup agree and hope we clear other dead wood about the place, Austin is a little to averse to risk, conservative perhaps, unless he’s being directed.

 

[Benga]

Revisionist drafting, love it

Yep, either put up the posts screaming to pick xyz at the time, or shut up.

Added to that, those that think we need to sack one person to bring in another have no idea how many people are involved in the decision making to get to that point on draft day.

Most were licking their chops at the fact we got kemp at a ‘steal’.

 

[Stamos]

Austin is a little to averse to risk, conservative perhaps, unless he’s being directed.

You keep repeating this, when evidence suggests otherwise.
You think bringing in Williams, Saad, Hewett, Cerra, and trading out Samo for Young, in his first 2 years is conservative?

 

[BigFrizz36]

I do think that Haynes in would give us the leadership and organisation that we need down back, currently being provided by Newman. In turn, we could replace Newman in the side with Boyd who I think gives us the small lockdown defender we need as well as another quality distributor.

Newman, Weitering, Marchbank
Saad, Young, McGovern
(I/C: Williams)

vs.

Boyd, Weitering, Haynes
Saad, Young, McGovern*
(I/C: Williams)

*Could have Marchy here, but I've gone with Gov as the better offensive option to complement Weiters/Young/Haynes. Swinging Gov forward again and keep Marchy in the side would be another option. I have Doc further upfield in this scenario.

I want Boyd in the side, but I don't see how he fits alongside Saad, Williams and Newman, given Newman has shown himself to be our best defensive organiser. I'd love Weiters to take the reins more, but I think maybe he has his hands full (mentally) dealing with the best KPF each week.

You do realise that damo is reporting that Haynes has a contract worth $800k per year for the next two years. Good player and all but there us no way that we can take that on.

 

[JuddgementDay]

Not sure the name of the person with Cooney on Trade Radio but he just said "Dow is well paid, I am not saying 500K a year, but not far off". Hmm

Makes Acres super deal even better

 

[katmanblue]

we better sign up Cripps and Walsh's little brothers then...... yikes.

Ben Silvagni ripping up everywhere he goes.

On SM-F926B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Blue__Balls]

You do realise that damo is reporting that Haynes has a contract worth $800k per year for the next two years. Good player and all but there us no way that we can take that on.

Had seen it, wasn't commenting on it, just how I would see him fitting into the 22 if we went that path. As I said, I want to find a spot for Boyd but Newman is the one I think he's had to replace and I'm not sure our backline structures hold up without Newman (at least on 2022 evidence). Another preseason into the group and maybe we can pull the trigger and get the better ball user in the side without the group forgetting how to set up.

 

[BigFrizz36]

Yup agree and hope we clear other dead wood about the place, Austin is a little to averse to risk, conservative perhaps, unless he’s being directed.

I don't believe that is the case, for the reasons that Stamos outlined above. However I am the first to concede that I have no inside knowledge and am basing my opinion on just assessing the decisions that have been reached on his tenure as list manager.

I'd be interested to see the logic that you have used to come to your hypothesis? Or do you have some inside knowledge? Was delisting Stocker (for example,) averse to risk? Was trading a high pick for Saad (when many on here were losing their minds about it) being conservative?

 

[Monty1978]

All this talk about who to draft .. pretty hard job I reckon …besides dow , sps , I think we have done ok and if you really look at it , this list is built for a tilt at a premiership next year so it can’t be too bad

 

[Coops93]

Good selections 2016 onwards:

2016 (9 players taken):
27 Zac Fisher

2017 (7):
30 Tom De Koning

2018 (7):
1 Sam Walsh

2019 (7):
3 (R) Josh Honey

2020 (3):
37 Corey Durdin (maybe Carroll)

2021 (5):
19 (mid) Jordan Boyd
27 Jesse Motlop

So we've taken 38 players in that time with 7 of those turning into good players - not to say others are a complete bust. Still plenty of time for Mirkov, Kemp, Philp, etc. But that's 18% strike rate which seems pretty poor and flicking through a couple of other clubs records I think we're still well behind.

Goes to show how important 2015 was to the club. 4 of the 8 selections weren't just good they were outstanding. Without that one draft from SOS we'd be well and truly up 5h!t creek right now.

I hope when the soft cap expands we throw a LOT more money at recruitment and poach someone to replace Agresta.

Good point.

We are really carried by drafts from Cripps and then the big one with Curnow and co. Since then none of our draft picks have become A graders sans Walsh, who came into the league as an A grader.

Even the "good" picks are just so-so at the moment. Fisher is a B grader, TDK the jury is still out, Honey isn't in the team, Durdin looks good so far but at the moment isn't much more than a pressure forward and Motlop similar.

We could do with a few hits with quick returns in the next draft or 2. Every team would say that tbf but we could really use it.

 

[Blue__Balls]

You left Doc out.

Haynes looked cooked this year with his worst season statistically since 2015. Will come with a salary we can't afford and I don't think he has shown leadership this season. We need to plug holes not increase depth in our VFL. Even if he does make our best 22 it will push a good player into the 2s. He is not replacing Plow (which would make us better) but Marchy or MMcG

I made a note in there that I'd have Doc upfield in that set-up. Defensive wing/midfield rotation probably. Could have him as the 7th defender and use Williams through the middle and forward line as an alternative, but I think Doc showed he could add plenty in the hybrid wing/mid role.