Brisbane All Time Team as of '24

[lionshine]

B Johnson Michael Leppa
HB Kiddy Andrews Rich
C McCluggage Black Lappin
HF Power Brown Zorko
F Akermanis Lynch Bradshaw
R Keating Voss Neale
I Daniher Cameron Pike Adcock White


Unlucky - Patfull, Notting, Drummond, Merrett, Scott Twins, Hart, Macrae, McGrath, Ashcroft snr, Rockliff, Redden, Beams, Robinson, Dunkley, Stef Martin, McCarthy.

Will be in contention one day - Wilmot, Will Ashcroft, Rayner, Berry, Starcevich, Lohmann.

Justifications, I tried to prioritise some of the guys who played over 200 games for the club e.g. Adcock and Rich. Originally had Notting & McGrath on the cusp for the same reasons but couldn’t fit them in. Kiddy got a nod due to being our best player in the finals last year culminating in our first grand final appearance since 2003 last year.

Dunkley hasn’t been around long enough but would get a look in. Wanted to fit Patfull in as a multi BnF but couldn’t displace Mal, Harris or Leppa. As good as Hart & Macrae were as small forwards I’m taking Cameron & Zorko. Seriously considered Ash McGrath as another 200 gamer. Daniher would be an unbelievable second ruck/chop out for Lynch/Brown/Bradshaw, he could almost roam up around the wing. I am biased but no way I’m not including cult heroes during the golden era White & Pike which is why the Scott twins missed out. Stef Martin very unlucky but Keating gets the nod due to being Mr September.

 

[martinson]

B Johnson Michael Leppa
HB Kiddy Andrews Rich
C McCluggage Black Lappin
HF Power Brown Zorko
F Akermanis Lynch Bradshaw
R Keating Voss Neale
I Daniher Cameron Pike Adcock White


Unlucky - Patfull, Notting, Drummond, Merrett, Scott Twins, Hart, Macrae, McGrath, Ashcroft snr, Rockliff, Redden, Beams, Robinson, Dunkley, Stef Martin, McCarthy.

Will be in contention one day - Wilmot, Will Ashcroft, Rayner, Berry, Starcevich, Lohmann.

Justifications, I tried to prioritise some of the guys who played over 200 games for the club e.g. Adcock and Rich. Originally had Notting & McGrath on the cusp for the same reasons but couldn’t fit them in. Kiddy got a nod due to being our best player in the finals last year culminating in our first grand final appearance since 2003 last year.

Dunkley hasn’t been around long enough but would get a look in. Wanted to fit Patfull in as a multi BnF but couldn’t displace Mal, Harris or Leppa. As good as Hart & Macrae were as small forwards I’m taking Cameron & Zorko. Seriously considered Ash McGrath as another 200 gamer. Daniher would be an unbelievable second ruck/chop out for Lynch/Brown/Bradshaw, he could almost roam up around the wing. I am biased but no way I’m not including cult heroes during the golden era White & Pike which is why the Scott twins missed out. Stef Martin very unlucky but Keating gets the nod due to being Mr September.

The one I can't have is Kiddy . He's played what , half a year of really good footy . You need a body of work. Long way to go before he gets near Ashcroft imo.

 

[p4p1]

Of the ones I saw play Murray ,Wilson ,Roos ,Pert ,Quinlan and Murphy would have to be automatic inclusions because they were all champions and many of the players in the team weren't. They're just classes above the Scott Bros ,McCluggage , Rich , McCrae for a start . Roos and Pert were much better players than Leppitsch , Patfull or Michael. By a long way . Players get overrated because they were lucky enough to play at a time when we won flags.

Bunton has a record that's impossible to match in terms being adjudged the best player in the comp in most seasons he played.

It's too hard to judge of the ancient guys. The Baron was obviously a freakish player . But just not possible to compare from eras so distant although Bunton was considered by many to be the greatest of all time prior to say the '70's.

Someone like Bunton who wins multiple best player in the comp awards, 6 x in 11 seasons + 1 runner up in 1934, average of 2 goals a game playing mostly as a rover etc is easy to slot in despite the difference in times because of his outstanding record.

FB: C Johnson G Pert D White
HB: N Lappin P Roos (vc) K Murray
C: J Akermanis M Voss (c) G Wilson
HF: D Zorko B Quinlin J Murphy
FP: C Cameron A Lynch D Bradshaw
Foll S Martin H Bunton Sr L Neale
Int: J Brown L Power S Black H McCluggage

If we just went from the 60s onwards + Bunton because as I said, it is a pretty easy inclusion, would the team look something like this or would there be more changes to be made?

 

[p4p1]

B Johnson Michael Leppa
HB Kiddy Andrews Rich
C McCluggage Black Lappin
HF Power Brown Zorko
F Akermanis Lynch Bradshaw
R Keating Voss Neale
I Daniher Cameron Pike Adcock White


Unlucky - Patfull, Notting, Drummond, Merrett, Scott Twins, Hart, Macrae, McGrath, Ashcroft snr, Rockliff, Redden, Beams, Robinson, Dunkley, Stef Martin, McCarthy.

Will be in contention one day - Wilmot, Will Ashcroft, Rayner, Berry, Starcevich, Lohmann.

Justifications, I tried to prioritise some of the guys who played over 200 games for the club e.g. Adcock and Rich. Originally had Notting & McGrath on the cusp for the same reasons but couldn’t fit them in. Kiddy got a nod due to being our best player in the finals last year culminating in our first grand final appearance since 2003 last year.

Dunkley hasn’t been around long enough but would get a look in. Wanted to fit Patfull in as a multi BnF but couldn’t displace Mal, Harris or Leppa. As good as Hart & Macrae were as small forwards I’m taking Cameron & Zorko. Seriously considered Ash McGrath as another 200 gamer. Daniher would be an unbelievable second ruck/chop out for Lynch/Brown/Bradshaw, he could almost roam up around the wing. I am biased but no way I’m not including cult heroes during the golden era White & Pike which is why the Scott twins missed out. Stef Martin very unlucky but Keating gets the nod due to being Mr September.

I agree with what martinson said about Kiddy but I do think if he continues on his trajectory he absolutely is in the conversation. If we had kicked one more goal, he probably has a Norm Smith.

I'm not high on including Rich in the team. I just don't think he offers what some others do. I am thankful he stayed around when others left but defensively he seemed to get caught out and with Johnson in the team, I don't think you need his left foot coming out of defence, especially if you have Kiddy there as you do.

 

[martinson]

Someone like Bunton who wins multiple best player in the comp awards, 6 x in 11 seasons + 1 runner up in 1934, average of 2 goals a game playing mostly as a rover etc is easy to slot in despite the difference in times because of his outstanding record.

FB: C Johnson G Pert D White
HB: N Lappin P Roos (vc) K Murray
C: J Akermanis M Voss (c) G Wilson
HF: D Zorko B Quinlin J Murphy
FP: C Cameron A Lynch D Bradshaw
Foll S Martin H Bunton Sr L Neale
Int: J Brown L Power S Black H McCluggage

If we just went from the 60s onwards + Bunton because as I said, it is a pretty easy inclusion, would the team look something like this or would there be more changes to be made?

That's a great team.

Without putting up suggestions as to who would replace them the ones I query are Martin ,Bradshaw and McCluggage because they just don't have the class of the others . But in any sport it's impossible to compare athletes from different eras ,you can only accurately compare them to their peers who are competing in the same circumstances. We also are comparing full time professionals to others where the system and any assistance was completely different.

 

[Nuggo]

Luke Hodge to throw a cat amongst the pigeons. If talking players at their prime, though the argument is his prime was with Hawthorn.

 

[martinson]

I agree with what martinson said about Kiddy but I do think if he continues on his trajectory he absolutely is in the conversation. If we had kicked one more goal, he probably has a Norm Smith.

I'm not high on including Rich in the team. I just don't think he offers what some others do. I am thankful he stayed around when others left but defensively he seemed to get caught out and with Johnson in the team, I don't think you need his left foot coming out of defence, especially if you have Kiddy there as you do.

I reckon the Norm Smith is an overrated award. It's the team that gets you to play in that game and the players from 16 teams don't get that chance. In fact the high majority of players never get that chance.

Of course when someone like Dusty wins 3 well you have to realise something's going on there.

Tbh I'm shocked that Kiddy would be considered in this conversation which isn't any reflection his potential.

 

[Loyal Lion]

From my limited knowledge on the Roys I know that Murray, Roos, Bunton and Quinlan come straight in.

And one of the greatest rovers of all-time, Garry Wilson is a lock for Fitzroy's TOTC.

 

[p4p1]

That's a great team.

Without putting up suggestions as to who would replace them the ones I query are Martin ,Bradshaw and McCluggage because they just don't have the class of the others . But in any sport it's impossible to compare athletes from different eras ,you can only accurately compare them to their peers who are competing in the same circumstances. We also are comparing full time professionals to others where the system and any assistance was completely different.

I just tried to find straight swaps more or less for the players you mentioned as locks. I don't disagree re: Clugg he is good and still has time to get better but I am not sure if he has reached the level of Power who due to the quality around him is probably underrated by most.
Bradshaw is a hard one for me to know exactly where he should be. He kicked 70 or so less goals than Browny in 25 less games but also spent decent chunks playing in the backline. So part of me says he goes to the bench and Browny goes to a FP playing the third tall.

 

[Loyal Lion]

Someone like Bunton who wins multiple best player in the comp awards, 6 x in 11 seasons + 1 runner up in 1934, average of 2 goals a game playing mostly as a rover etc is easy to slot in despite the difference in times because of his outstanding record.

FB: C Johnson G Pert D White
HB: N Lappin P Roos (vc) K Murray
C: J Akermanis M Voss (c) G Wilson
HF: D Zorko B Quinlin J Murphy
FP: C Cameron A Lynch D Bradshaw
Foll S Martin H Bunton Sr L Neale
Int: J Brown L Power S Black H McCluggage

If we just went from the 60s onwards + Bunton because as I said, it is a pretty easy inclusion, would the team look something like this or would there be more changes to be made?

Only positions I'd change is:

Bunton on the wing, Murphy ruck-rover, Wilson rover, Neale half forward.

The ruck is a weakness there. Stef Martin was serviceable, But Norm Brown should be ahead of him. Even Ron Alexander who played in the 70's - 80's & captained the side with aplomb, was far better than Martin IMO. He was a tough & fearless leader who looked after the little blokes. He was also a very good ruckman. I go back to 1974 for my Fitzroy days.

 

[martinson]

And one of the greatest rovers of all-time, Garry Wilson is a lock for Fitzroy's TOTC.

Flea would've been unstoppable in this era. He got physically targeted most times he went near the ball with tactics that would be instant suspensions these days.

It's be interesting to know how players like Quinlan ,Wilson and Murphy who copped a lot every week would go without the physical intimidation.

I remember Whoosha broke Roosy's jaw in an interstate game with a roundarm kinghit from behind that was happily shown on the Footy shows with no report .

I'm not one of those who thinks players were any better in prior eras ,in fact across the board they were demonstrably worse , but the great ones were in the eras where individual efforts were paramount in the success of your team.

 

[p4p1]

I reckon the Norm Smith is an overrated award. It's the team that gets you to play in that game and the players from 16 teams don't get that chance. In fact the high majority of players never get that chance.

Of course when someone like Dusty wins 3 well you have to realise something's going on there.

Tbh I'm shocked that Kiddy would be considered in this conversation which isn't any reflection his potential.

I think the weight of Dusty winning 3 is massively overplayed. Yes he won 3 but none of his games were as good as Black in 03, Tracc in 21, among others. Everyone wants to be BoG in the GF so it is a huge achievement and winning 3 is incredible.
It has only been handed out since 1979, so I am sure others, if handed out earlier would have won 3 or more.
Barry Cable won 3 Simpson medals back to back. Maurice Rioli won 2 Simpson medals back to back, 1 in a losing GF, then backed that up with a Norm Smith in '82 during his first year in the VFL. So 3 in a row.

 

[martinson]

Only positions I'd change is:

Bunton on the wing, Murphy ruck-rover, Wilson rover, Neale half forward.

The ruck is a weakness there. Stef Martin was serviceable, But Norm Brown should be ahead of him. Even Ron Alexander who played in the 70's - 80's & captained the side with aplomb, was far better than Martin IMO. He was a tough & fearless leader who looked after the little blokes. He was also a very good ruckman. I go back to 1974 for my Fitzroy days.

Yeah ,Ron and Norm were better players than Stef , much and all that I loved Stef. In fact Matt Rendell had a period where he was better than all of them , just because of his athleticism and capacity to go forward and impact the scoreboard one way or another.

 

[p4p1]

Only positions I'd change is:

Bunton on the wing, Murphy ruck-rover, Wilson rover, Neale half forward.

The ruck is a weakness there. Stef Martin was serviceable, But Norm Brown should be ahead of him. Even Ron Alexander who played in the 70's - 80's & captained the side with aplomb, was far better than Martin IMO. He was a tough & fearless leader who looked after the little blokes. He was also a very good ruckman. I go back to 1974 for my Fitzroy days.

He is a West Aussie so this all makes sense tbh.
I did not know that Ron Alexander, former WCE coach played for the roys.
I don't think the Brisbane Lions have ever had a dominant ruckman, so I am not surprised that it is the weakness of the team.

 

[McIvor]

Imo miles better at their best , the outlier being Andrews who is a different type and plays a different game. Pert and Roos could play anywhere. When Sheedy coached Victoria in an interstate game there was a howling wind so he put Pert at full back when they were kicking against it and switched him to full forward at quarter time. Sheedy said Pert was the best player he'd seen of that era in football but injuries cruelled him.

Roos was an out and out champion who Captained Victoria several times even when Fitzroy was struggling and that was a huge honour at the time. He started his career on the wing and played at both ends of the ground as well ,but predominantly in the backline.

Many old Roys I know including the old man still to this day are dirty that Roos didn’t win the Brownlow in 86 and said he was miles ahead of any other player in the comp all from CHB?

 

[McIvor]

Yeah ,Ron and Norm were better players than Stef , much and all that I loved Stef. In fact Matt Rendell had a period where he was better than all of them , just because of his athleticism and capacity to go forward and impact the scoreboard one way or another.

Would I be correct in thinking Rendell kicked 9? I vaguely recall the old man talking about him doing that at a ground in St Kilda? Was he an out and out ruck or forward ruck?

 

[martinson]

Would I be correct in thinking Rendell kicked 9? I vaguely recall the old man talking about him doing that at a ground in St Kilda? Was he an out and out ruck or forward ruck?

We used to call him the biggest rover in the League.

He started off as full forward and moved into the ruck as he matured. He was always a natural on baller but yes he kicked 9 one day . Imagine that.

Roosy got robbed in 86. Wilson got robbed twice. In those days if you played for Fitzroy you had to be absolutely outstanding to get votes.

Kevin Murray managed to win it in the twilight of his career after finishing runner up a couple of times.

 

[martinson]

Talking of Brownlows I get really annoyed at how underrated Neale is in the general footy community. I don't care how the media or footy supporters rate the Brownlow his performance in that award in as tough a competition and with so many great players is just about without modern precedent.

I think I'll throw up if he doesn't make AA tonight. Especially if some of the other names being touted get in.

 

[Loyal Lion]

Yeah ,Ron and Norm were better players than Stef , much and all that I loved Stef. In fact Matt Rendell had a period where he was better than all of them , just because of his athleticism and capacity to go forward and impact the scoreboard one way or another.

Geez I forgot about Matt Rendell. Yep he would be my pick as the ruckman in that side. Not only was he a very good, mobile ruckman, but he could play forward as well. He kicjed 46 goals from FF in his 1st year in 1981.

 

[Loyal Lion]

Many old Roys I know including the old man still to this day are dirty that Roos didn’t win the Brownlow in 86 and said he was miles ahead of any other player in the comp all from CHB?

He should have BOLTED the 86 Brownlow in. Roos was so dominant that year. Similarly when Garry Wilson should have won the 78 & 79 Brownlows, or at least one of them.

 

[3KZ is Football]

How would you rate the likes of Pert and Roos against the likes of Leppitsch, Andrews, Michael etc.

I’d have Roos at CHB and Pert just shades Mal Michael at Full Back.

 

[3KZ is Football]

FB: C Johnson G Pert B Stephen
HB: N Lappin P Roos (vc) K Murray
C: J Akermanis M Voss (c) W Smallhorn
HF: G Wilson B Quinlan J Murphy
FP: C Cameron A Lynch D Bradshaw
Foll Matt Rendell H Bunton Sr L Neale
Int: J Brown L Power S Black M Conlan
Sub: Ryan Lester

35

Ryan Lester

Age

32

Ht

192cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.9

4star

K

7.9

3star

HB

7.0

4star

M

3.9

4star

T

2.7

4star

MG

170.4

3star

D

10.3

3star

K

5.8

2star

HB

4.5

3star

M

2.7

3star

T

1.5

2star

MG

140.7

3star

D

12.6

4star

K

6.8

3star

HB

5.8

4star

M

3.8

4star

T

0.6

3star

 

[3KZ is Football]

Many old Roys I know including the old man still to this day are dirty that Roos didn’t win the Brownlow in 86 and said he was miles ahead of any other player in the comp all from CHB?

Mark Dwyer, of all players, stole votes off Roos.

 

[3KZ is Football]

These guys are LOCKS!

 

[Loyal Lion]

Flea would've been unstoppable in this era. He got physically targeted most times he went near the ball with tactics that would be instant suspensions these days.

It's be interesting to know how players like Quinlan ,Wilson and Murphy who copped a lot every week would go without the physical intimidation.

I remember Whoosha broke Roosy's jaw in an interstate game with a roundarm kinghit from behind that was happily shown on the Footy shows with no report .

I'm not one of those who thinks players were any better in prior eras ,in fact across the board they were demonstrably worse , but the great ones were in the eras where individual efforts were paramount in the success of your team.

Before Bernie came to Fitzroy in 1978, it was a case of stopping Wilson & Murphy & you beat the Roys. We had a plethora of great little men in those days - Wilson, Murphy, Irwin, Allan to name a few. But we had no real star key position players. Until Bob Beecroft was moved to FF. He was a great success there. But Wilson used to get bashed most weeks, unfairly of course. You were right about Worsfold in the state game. Except that he broke Osborne's jaw, Not Roos's.