Club Focus Brisbane Lions 2024 - in search of another KPF?

[Ticky009]

Data from footywire. To check the draft order see the thread here.

Footywire says: "While we make every effort to keep up to date with player contracts, it is likely that our data may at times be out of date, incomplete or inaccurate. If you find any player contracts that need updating, please let us know using our brand new contract submission form."

 

[lionshine]

Why? The suns have Jed Walter, Ethan Read, King, Sam Day, Casboult and Mac Andrews already.

Day was delisted. Casboult may have been as well?

Regardless, as I stated yesterday, Himmelberg signed with the Suns today.

 

[Tonythetiger]

Going off on a tangent here.

Why should Joe be paid any money for 2025 ?. He will not be playing, so why should he get paid ?.

I look at it this way, he has a contract to play, for $ XXX a year. Brisbane pay him for services rendered. He withdraws his services, Brissie say thanks, but you are now off our payroll.

Depends on how the contract is written. There is what 'ought' to happen and what his and the clubs entitlements are.

 

[crankygeese]

Going off on a tangent here.

Why should Joe be paid any money for 2025 ?. He will not be playing, so why should he get paid ?.

I look at it this way, he has a contract to play, for $ XXX a year. Brisbane pay him for services rendered. He withdraws his services, Brissie say thanks, but you are now off our payroll.

It's not a matter of should, that's part of the CBA agreement between the AFL and the AFLPA

Retiring players contracts, in the event where a player before the contract expires, must still be paid in their entirety and count towards the teams cap unless 1 of 2 things happens
1 - A payout is negotiated between club and player. In this instance the payout still counts towards the cap for the remainder of the contract but the amount is reduced
2 - It's a medical retirement and the club gets cap relief as per the Brayshaw rules introduced this year.

It's obviously not a medical retirement, so unless the Lions and Daniher agree upon a sum for 1, his contract must be paid out and still counts towards the cap.

It's happened with other teams and other players, Tippett and the Swans, Beams and the Magpies, for example. Brisbane and Daniher are no different.
As a result, they don't have the money to spend all of a sudden. They certainly wouldn't have the money to afford Lynch for example, but that's not really a problem, as they also don't have the draft capital because they need to cover Ashcroft and Marshall.
Unless they can convince some players to move to Melbourne as part of a trade with the Tigers or trade with other teams for that Draft capital and to free up cap space, the Lions are left picking through the scrap heap or developing kids.

 

[crankygeese]

It's not a matter of should, that's part of the CBA agreement between the AFL and the AFLPA

Retiring players contracts, in the event where a player before the contract expires, must still be paid in their entirety and count towards the teams cap unless 1 of 2 things happens
1 - A payout is negotiated between club and player. In this instance the payout still counts towards the cap for the remainder of the contract but the amount is reduced
2 - It's a medical retirement and the club gets cap relief as per the Brayshaw rules introduced this year.

It's obviously not a medical retirement, so unless the Lions and Daniher agree upon a sum for 1, his contract must be paid out and still counts towards the cap.

It's happened with other teams and other players, Tippett and the Swans, Beams and the Magpies, for example. Brisbane and Daniher are no different.
As a result, they don't have the money to spend all of a sudden. They certainly wouldn't have the money to afford Lynch for example, but that's not really a problem, as they also don't have the draft capital because they need to cover Ashcroft and Marshall.
Unless they can convince some players to move to Melbourne as part of a trade with the Tigers or trade with other teams for that Draft capital and to free up cap space, the Lions are left picking through the scrap heap or developing kids.

As an addendum to this, it should also be noted that the Daniher Free Agency contract that the Lions signed him to doesn't fall under the so called "Frankin rule".
Any time a team signs a Free Agent away from their original team, that new team is on the hook for the entire amount of the initial contract, regardless of any later negotiations, with no possibility of a buyout.
So if Franklin had retired before he saw out his contract, the Swans still would have had to payout the full amount, and the full amount would have been counted against the Swans cap.

The same rule applies to Perryman and Battle this year, should they not see out their FA contracts with Collingwood and Hawthorn respectively. Or Mckay with the Bombers last year, although the Bombers managed that quite well by front loading the living hell out of the Mckay contract, so even if he doesn't see his contract out, it won't be much of a cap hit in the later years.

If you'll remember, Brisbane actually got around that with Daniher in somewhat controversial circumstances, by offering him a massive 3 year contract to get the Bombers Band 1 compo, then 12 months later tacking on another 2 years at a slightly lower rate. Daniher was still on good coin for years 4 and 5, but because they weren't a part of his original free agency contract, the Lions actually have the option of being able to negotiate a payout to avoid the full cap hit next year. Whether they do or not is up to them.

You could say, "Well, you're just jealous that the Lions did that". Of course I am, I'd imagine most clubs and their fans are. It was a brilliant loophole move by an excellent Lions list management team, everybody would be jealous of that move, and I respect the hell out of them for pulling it off.

But you can't dodge every bullet.

 

[M Malice]

Starcevich, Rayner, Lohmann, Morris, Fletcher, Answerth, Neale, Ashcroft, Bailey are all out of contract in the next 2 seasons, and all of them will attract serious pay rises while being targeted by other clubs.

Daniher's money doesn't come out of the cap next year, because he wasn't medically retired, so unless he waives all of his money next year they'll still be on the hook for it, though I'd imagine he'll accept a partial payout.

They have 1228 DVI points for Ashcroft and Marshall and are going to need somewhere between 2400 and 3000 points. They can probably get another 300-400 points by trading their 1st rounder this year.
Guys like DevRob, Tunstill, Prior will be lucky to get them 400 points combined.
Then they'll need to trade their future 2nd and 3rd at the very least to make up the difference, but probably the future 1st as well considering the change in DVI scaling next year making their future 3rd a lot less valuable.

So they have little no draft capital for the next 2 seasons and not much cap space to work with.

Best case scenario is Morris or some other kids take a step up, and after that the only realistic options are Membrey as a Free Agent or they get Stringer on the cheap if the Bombers are actually keen to get rid of him for next to nothing.

They'll still be good with Lohmann, Bailey, Cameron, Rayner, thrown into the mix, but they'll need to get creative in how they restructure their forward line. Because they won't be able to replace Daniher with anything besides players from the scrap heap.

Going off on a tangent here.

Why should Joe be paid any money for 2025 ?. He will not be playing, so why should he get paid ?.

I look at it this way, he has a contract to play, for $ XXX a year. Brisbane pay him for services rendered. He withdraws his services, Brissie say thanks, but you are now off our payroll.

The talk on our board is that Joe has forfeited all his 2025 contract money so it will not be included in our 2025 salary cap.

He has walked away from circa 800K, Joe's mantra is there is more to life than money, he is happy to spend his future in anonymity on his farm at Byron Bay.

 

[Perrip]

Day was delisted. Casboult may have been as well?

Casboult is just without a contract for 2025 - Inside Trading

Levi Casboult is keen to play on for a 16th season in 2025.
Gold Coast is understood to be in conversations with Casboult about another one-year deal, after considering Day but moving on from the inaugural Sun.

 

[peasantbruh69]

Following the theme of Brisbane going after players with injury histories, maybe Hayes from St Kilda as a low cost/potential high reward type.

 

[Jeremias]

I don’t think they’ll overpay for a key forward.

More likely they tinker a little and play a little smaller if need be.

They’ve got a huge amount of talent in that medium and smaller forward brigade.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

TEEEEEEEEEEEEXXX

Loyal club man who doesn't want to move as kids have started school.

Peter Wright I'd on the outer at Dons, would be worth going after as capable backup ruckman too.

Tom Lynch from Richmond as they are looking to rebuild.

 

[blueiris]

I’m sure Fagan will probably just back in Brandon Ryan as that fwd/Ruck combination and look at a free agent in 26

 

[SpecialBruce]

I’m sure Fagan will probably just back in Brandon Ryan as that fwd/Ruck combination and look at a free agent in 26

Ryan is a spud.

 

[blueiris]

Ryan is a spud.

 

[masai tu]

As an addendum to this, it should also be noted that the Daniher Free Agency contract that the Lions signed him to doesn't fall under the so called "Frankin rule".
Any time a team signs a Free Agent away from their original team, that new team is on the hook for the entire amount of the initial contract, regardless of any later negotiations, with no possibility of a buyout.
So if Franklin had retired before he saw out his contract, the Swans still would have had to payout the full amount, and the full amount would have been counted against the Swans cap.

The same rule applies to Perryman and Battle this year, should they not see out their FA contracts with Collingwood and Hawthorn respectively. Or Mckay with the Bombers last year, although the Bombers managed that quite well by front loading the living hell out of the Mckay contract, so even if he doesn't see his contract out, it won't be much of a cap hit in the later years.

If you'll remember, Brisbane actually got around that with Daniher in somewhat controversial circumstances, by offering him a massive 3 year contract to get the Bombers Band 1 compo, then 12 months later tacking on another 2 years at a slightly lower rate. Daniher was still on good coin for years 4 and 5, but because they weren't a part of his original free agency contract, the Lions actually have the option of being able to negotiate a payout to avoid the full cap hit next year. Whether they do or not is up to them.

You could say, "Well, you're just jealous that the Lions did that". Of course I am, I'd imagine most clubs and their fans are. It was a brilliant loophole move by an excellent Lions list management team, everybody would be jealous of that move, and I respect the hell out of them for pulling it off.

But you can't dodge every bullet.

Bloody good union agreement.

In basic employment jargon, a player has withdrawn his services ( retired for other employment ), his employer shouldn’t pay for not attendance at work.

I’d love my employer to pay another year on my existing work contract, whilst I leave and work elsewhere. Sever the contract by mutual agreement (retire), shake hands, take your leave entitlements, and off they go.

 

[dean33]

It's not a matter of should, that's part of the CBA agreement between the AFL and the AFLPA

Retiring players contracts, in the event where a player before the contract expires, must still be paid in their entirety and count towards the teams cap unless 1 of 2 things happens
1 - A payout is negotiated between club and player. In this instance the payout still counts towards the cap for the remainder of the contract but the amount is reduced
2 - It's a medical retirement and the club gets cap relief as per the Brayshaw rules introduced this year.

It's obviously not a medical retirement, so unless the Lions and Daniher agree upon a sum for 1, his contract must be paid out and still counts towards the cap.

It's happened with other teams and other players, Tippett and the Swans, Beams and the Magpies, for example. Brisbane and Daniher are no different.
As a result, they don't have the money to spend all of a sudden. They certainly wouldn't have the money to afford Lynch for example, but that's not really a problem, as they also don't have the draft capital because they need to cover Ashcroft and Marshall.
Unless they can convince some players to move to Melbourne as part of a trade with the Tigers or trade with other teams for that Draft capital and to free up cap space, the Lions are left picking through the scrap heap or developing kids.

Daniher can’t retire and still be paid his full contract. He might have an amount written into his contract that he may get in the case of retirement however he isn’t getting the full $800k-$1mil he was getting. Not sure about the lions cap though.

 

[dean33]

Loyal club man who doesn't want to move as kids have started school.

Peter Wright I'd on the outer at Dons, would be worth going after as capable backup ruckman too.

Tom Lynch from Richmond as they are looking to rebuild.

Lynch would only be an option for us for a first rd pick. We are already going to bundle up late picks for the lions first anyway. So the only way we would consider if we got the suns pick 12 with our late picks and then got the lions first for lynch. However lions need the points so can’t see how they could do this.

 

[The 747]

With Daniher retiring they would be silly not to try for a replacement in the years that they could win another flag.

Who do they trade for?

I think Deven Robertson and a pick may attract someone half decent?

Essendon- Stringer/Wright?

Fremantle- Tabener (free agent)

Adelaide- Taylor Walker ?

Hawthorn- Mitch Lewis?

Gold COast- Lukosis?

GWS- Riccardi?

None of those are half decent. They have Morris who is a better prospect than anyone they could pick up.

 

[TylerDurden]

Talking to Mitch Lewis apparently.

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

Talking to Mitch Lewis apparently.

Hawthorn wouldnt be that stupid surely?

 

[TylerDurden]

Hawthorn wouldnt be that stupid surely?

I hope not.

 

[Elixuh]

Hope we don’t go after Mitch Lewis. Has never kicked 40 in a season.

 

[blueiris]

Talking to Mitch Lewis apparently.

Where has this come from?

 

[Chaisa]

None of those are half decent. They have Morris who is a better prospect than anyone they could pick up.

I think the issue is neither him nor Hipwood could realistically ruck.

Might just be a case of picking Fort or Smith regularly, though.

 

[Obeanie1]

It's not a matter of should, that's part of the CBA agreement between the AFL and the AFLPA

Retiring players contracts, in the event where a player before the contract expires, must still be paid in their entirety and count towards the teams cap unless 1 of 2 things happens
1 - A payout is negotiated between club and player. In this instance the payout still counts towards the cap for the remainder of the contract but the amount is reduced
2 - It's a medical retirement and the club gets cap relief as per the Brayshaw rules introduced this year.

It's obviously not a medical retirement, so unless the Lions and Daniher agree upon a sum for 1, his contract must be paid out and still counts towards the cap.

It's happened with other teams and other players, Tippett and the Swans, Beams and the Magpies, for example. Brisbane and Daniher are no different.
As a result, they don't have the money to spend all of a sudden. They certainly wouldn't have the money to afford Lynch for example, but that's not really a problem, as they also don't have the draft capital because they need to cover Ashcroft and Marshall.
Unless they can convince some players to move to Melbourne as part of a trade with the Tigers or trade with other teams for that Draft capital and to free up cap space, the Lions are left picking through the scrap heap or developing kids.

Something doesnt add up there.

Medically retired players get paid out. Sure. Common sense.

But a player who decides to retire simply because they had had enough playing AFL at the top level and didnt feel like forfilling their contract?

They are breaching their contract. Why would they get paid out in full?

 

[halfback dasher]

Where has this come from?

Your club approaching his management

 

[halfback dasher]

Framework maybe
Lions to Eagles
Dev R
Eagles to Hawks
TB
Hawks to lions
ML