Right, so then the same argument applies to Martin in finals. Was he outstanding when his team were flying, crushing practically every team in finals 2017, 2019, 2020? Sure. What about the years Richmond weren't a dominant finals side? 2013, 2014, 2015, 2018, 2022. His average scoring output goes right down. Looks like a front runner to me.
Irrelevant. He and Ablett shared a similar role at times. You can call it hybrid mid/forward but it wasn't a forward pocket like Ablett 2019. Yet he still was left behind for coaches and Brownlow votes, by a distance until the dead rubbers, somehow.
It has to do with the post I quoted.
If any other player got those numbers, nobody would try to claim it as an outstanding year.
Like I said, I'm not a fan of GOAT labels and I'm not saying that GAJ is the GOAT, but GAJ's peak was higher and for longer.
I'm showing that if you apply the same argument to most players it fits. Especially losing Vs winning finals and premiership Vs non premiership seasons. Martin 2023's H&A isn't elevated above GAJ's simply because he and his side ran out of puff when finals started.
The initial comparison was always H&A because it was a reply to Richmond supporters drumming up the Martin 2023 AA run. Within H&A the only people that cared about Martin's dominant dead rubber double was that same Martin AA crowd. For stats I think it's fine, but it's silly to not acknowledge 5 Brownlow votes and 30 coaches votes to the point Richmond were knocked out of finals contention was a modest total. If he actually played forward pocket fair enough. But he was that extra midfielder with a license to attack, attack, attack.
Still nowhere near the goat though. If it was a best 4 year contest it might be worth making a thread about.
No he's not the goat but at the end of his career there could well be a compelling case.
Atkins was good - very reliable performances that get consistent BnF votes rather than Brownlow votes - , probably picked up coaches votes most frequently of any Cats player in the back end of the year - and yes it goes beyond stats, he was the only one contesting and defending too a lot of the time around the clinches. Dangerfield was our best attacking mid when he was in there, but moreso before he broke his ribs and played out the season from that difficulty. Hammy during one game (missing a month after that), broken ribs during another and playing out the season injured meant he picked up few votes after round 9. He was well, well ahead of Martin for coaches and Brownlow votes at that point.
