Nick Daicos already GOAT by round 6 this year.
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AFLW 2024 - Round 4 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
Opinion Can Dustin Martin be the GOAT? (Answer: no)
- Thread starter adammania9
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Atkins was good - very reliable performances that get consistent BnF votes rather than Brownlow votes - , probably picked up coaches votes most frequently of any Cats player in the back end of the year - and yes it goes beyond stats, he was the only one contesting and defending too a lot of the time around the clinches. Dangerfield was our best attacking mid when he was in there, but moreso before he broke his ribs and played out the season from that difficulty. Hammy during one game (missing a month after that), broken ribs during another and playing out the season injured meant he picked up few votes after round 9. He was well, well ahead of Martin for coaches and Brownlow votes at that point.
Remember, Martin's two best games came when the season was already over for Richmond. Even with that, Dangerfield finished on 87% the amount of coaches votes as Martin and had 50% more Brownlow votes. Not bad despite the bad injuries.
He somehow had 9 more goal assists than Martin with a couple games less - 70% game time vs 85% for Martin. It's curious.
Comp for forwards is less (even Breust made AA squad), and although Martin basically acted as an extra midfielder his official status was as a forward. Then there were the 4 extra games missed or incurring injuries through them. But no, Dangerfield's season STILL despite all of that was pretty close to Martin's. Minus dead rubbers, he wins the coaches votes and Brownlow votes but was lower in the BnF.
Noidnadroj
Norm Smith Medallist
- Dec 8, 2020
- 6,756
- 24,893
- AFL Club
- Richmond
Martin v Danger:
Disposal average: 23.6 v 20.5
Score Inv: 154 v 106
Goals: 25 v 11
GA’s: 15 v 24
As you’ve said with comparisons previously, with scoring related stats it’s the totals that count.
So more of the ball despite Danger playing permanent midfield, more goals, way more scoreboard impact, AA squad, 2nd in B&F v 8th … and better performances against top-8 teams:
Martin got 25 coaches votes against top-8 teams, so 53% of his 47 votes v top-8 at 2.5 per game.
Danger got 15 votes against top-8, so 37% of his 41 votes v top-8 at 1.67 per game.
Brownlow; Martin got 5 votes v top-8 and Danger got 4-votes.
The B&F shows your coaches didn’t think Danger had a very good year. AA selectors didn’t consider him. He captained a dominant flag team to out of the finals.
But but but … Martin played a couple of good games when Richmond couldn’t make finals, so their seasons were very similar.
I repeat… Danger got 62 B&F votes…. Guthrie got 87, Atkins got 105 and Stewart got 135. So it wasn’t just him finishing 8th … it was the huge chasm to the leaders.
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You can always tell you're struggling when you revert to.(this part of season, against this group of teams, at this time of day) type separations.
The only thing we've identified that matters as these isolating factors are:
-Games when side was in finals contention (e.g not dead rubbers). Because the game doesn't matter any more than a pre season contest. Look at Geelong putting 10 players to surgery the second they couldn't make finals.
So:
Dangerfield: 12 Brownlow votes, 41 coaches votes
Martin: 5 Brownlow votes, 30 coaches votes
When their sides season was alive. On that, Dangerfield clearly wins. It's not that close. I give that preference over a Geelong BnF finishing place, given Dahlhaus did well in 2019.
Dusty has the statistical edge you alluded to.
Ultimately in a line ball decision it goes to Martin, from sheer minutes/games played. Give Dangerfield 20 and Martin 18 games and that would be flipped. Therefore, "in the same ball park". Quite obviously behind Ablett 2019, as we agreed on a few days ago, but close to each other.
Noidnadroj
Norm Smith Medallist
- Dec 8, 2020
- 6,756
- 24,893
- AFL Club
- Richmond
Danger 8th in B&F (43 votes behind Tom Atkins and less than half the votes of the winner) no AA squad.
Martin 2nd in B&F and AA squad.
You’re welcome to whatever somersaults you wish to equate these seasons.
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- Oct 19, 2020
- 24,694
- 34,476
- AFL Club
- Richmond
4 more years
- Dec 9, 2015
- 7,585
- 13,075
- AFL Club
- Collingwood
Two max, by then it will be obvious who the GOAT is and the thread will be even more ridiculous
- Oct 19, 2020
- 24,694
- 34,476
- AFL Club
- Richmond
A pure mid or half back will never be the goat.
- Dec 9, 2015
- 7,585
- 13,075
- AFL Club
- Collingwood
He's gonna kick millions of goals, and set up even more, sit back and enjoy a TRUE GOAT
Noidnadroj
Norm Smith Medallist
- Dec 8, 2020
- 6,756
- 24,893
- AFL Club
- Richmond
He's gonna kick millions of goals, and set up even more, sit back and enjoy a TRUE GOAT
We are told he played the greatest season ever seen by a 20yo player in the history of the game … it was just good enough to pip Tom Mitchell - who played multiple games as sub - in the B&F.
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The AA CHB finished 9th or 10th didn't he? So maybe finishing close to the bottom of the top 10 in a BnF in a top 2 side isn't a big deal. And maybe we should apologise to Martin 2019 etc for that, while not OVER criticising a player like Moore for finishing 9th instead of 2nd (in a poor side).
PowerfulPies2023
Club Legend
- Oct 5, 2023
- 1,593
- 1,333
- AFL Club
- Collingwood
Who cares. Brownlow votes dispute otherwise. Everyone knows he would have won it if not for the injury.
In any case, Collingwood are premiers. And this '' kid '' is the best anyone's ever seen for his age. Absoloute gun.
You can cry all you want. It doesn't change facts. It just exposes your feelings of hatred and jealousy. Good luck with that
Caligo
Premiership Player
- Aug 18, 2023
- 3,556
- 2,862
- AFL Club
- Hawthorn
You didn't actually use any facts though. It is your opinion he would have won the brownlow and it is your opinion he is the best 20 year old. A 20 year old in his first season kicked 100 goals. That is a fact.Who cares. Brownlow votes dispute otherwise. Everyone knows he would have won it if not for the injury.
In any case, Collingwood are premiers. And this '' kid '' is the best anyone's ever seen for his age. Absoloute gun.
You can cry all you want. It doesn't change facts. It just exposes your feelings of hatred and jealousy. Good luck with that
EatMyDusty
Draftee
- Oct 7, 2023
- 19
- 10
- AFL Club
- Richmond
- Banned
- #4,867
Have to be Hall of Fame Legend status to be considered as GOAT by definition. Should get rid of 99% of players mentioned in this thread.
Although I believe Dusty, buddy and GAJ are locks to be legends. Regardless of what you think of them as players their records/awards are why Hall of Fames are created in the first place.
Can’t see a world where the most decorated H&A and Finals players in the history of the game are not legends. Players have been elevated to Legends with a lot less.
Although I believe Dusty, buddy and GAJ are locks to be legends. Regardless of what you think of them as players their records/awards are why Hall of Fames are created in the first place.
Can’t see a world where the most decorated H&A and Finals players in the history of the game are not legends. Players have been elevated to Legends with a lot less.
- Feb 27, 2011
- 14,905
- 16,280
- AFL Club
- Collingwood
Lucky for him he pushes forward and kicks goals too.
- Oct 19, 2020
- 24,694
- 34,476
- AFL Club
- Richmond
Not like Dustin does.
- Feb 27, 2011
- 14,905
- 16,280
- AFL Club
- Collingwood
What was Dusty doing in his 2nd year?
- Oct 19, 2020
- 24,694
- 34,476
- AFL Club
- Richmond
Taking eckies and partying. He didn't need his Nonna to cook his meals either.
- Sep 15, 2011
- 32,955
- 51,297
- AFL Club
- West Coast
A lot has changed between now and the early 2000s in terms of media fawning, focus etc, so I don’t pay that much attention to Brownlow votes, but Judd’s first year was better, imo.Who cares. Brownlow votes dispute otherwise. Everyone knows he would have won it if not for the injury.
In any case, Collingwood are premiers. And this '' kid '' is the best anyone's ever seen for his age. Absoloute gun.
You can cry all you want. It doesn't change facts. It just exposes your feelings of hatred and jealousy. Good luck with that
EatMyDusty
Draftee
- Oct 7, 2023
- 19
- 10
- AFL Club
- Richmond
- Banned
- #4,873
Who cares. Brownlow votes dispute otherwise. Everyone knows he would have won it if not for the injury.
In any case, Collingwood are premiers. And this '' kid '' is the best anyone's ever seen for his age. Absoloute gun.
You can cry all you want. It doesn't change facts. It just exposes your feelings of hatred and jealousy. Good luck with that
You misspelt Judd.
Naicos didn’t even win his B&F this year.
Tough luck with the games he missed players have missed out on Brownlows and AA teams due to injury.
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lifeonmar5
Draftee
- Oct 7, 2023
- 1
- 0
- AFL Club
- Richmond
Whilst it's almost impossible to determine who is the GOAT in a team sport, Dustin's ability to carry Richmond time and time again to win finals has him with very few peers. Many have come before him, but maybe statistics don't show that Dustin has more often than not created the goals that have allowed Richmond to win those big games. He was best afield against all his peers in the only State of Origin game and has consistantly made the other so called star players look silly (danger/fyfe/selwood) when matched up one on one.
Here is a clip from this season.
These type of clips are unbelievably hard to achieve for most players.
It's the fend off of one of the games best players, the read off the ruck and then the superb lace out kick inbetween a sea of defenders.
What could make Dustin the GOAT by career end, is his ability to rise at the requried moment, make the best possible decision and then execute.
As a fan of football for a long time, if you had to pick one player at their peak to come to your club, Dustin would likely be close if not at the top of that list. No supporter really cares about H&A, they just want their team to win flags. It's possible that Dustin is the player that if put in any team would give them the best chance at acheiving that goal.
If Dustin were to win 1 more flag and contribute heavily, then it prob cements it.
Here is a clip from this season.
These type of clips are unbelievably hard to achieve for most players.
It's the fend off of one of the games best players, the read off the ruck and then the superb lace out kick inbetween a sea of defenders.
What could make Dustin the GOAT by career end, is his ability to rise at the requried moment, make the best possible decision and then execute.
As a fan of football for a long time, if you had to pick one player at their peak to come to your club, Dustin would likely be close if not at the top of that list. No supporter really cares about H&A, they just want their team to win flags. It's possible that Dustin is the player that if put in any team would give them the best chance at acheiving that goal.
If Dustin were to win 1 more flag and contribute heavily, then it prob cements it.
Caesarr
Senior List
- May 13, 2018
- 185
- 370
- AFL Club
- Hawthorn
Martins 2nd year had more goals and inside 50s than Naicos. They also had the same amount of clearances and contested possessions. Naicos did get significantly more of the ball however (uncontested possessions).
I remember being at the R6 game against Brisbane in 2011. Me and my Lions mates were completely blown away by his performance that night.
I remember being at the R6 game against Brisbane in 2011. Me and my Lions mates were completely blown away by his performance that night.
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