Can we afford all of De Goey, Grundy, and Moore

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No SPIN said:
No - people are saying you can also trade them in.
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Its very hard to trade them in when you have nothing to trade given we love trading away future draft picks...

Oh but we could trade them in this year by getting rid of Moore and Grundy...

Lets put it this way, we trade Grundy for 2 top picks this year, or lose him next year to free agency and get 1 first round pick which is probably just after our pick, which we will have probably traded away for some washed up 30 year old...
 
eddiesmith said:
Its very hard to trade them in when you have nothing to trade given we love trading away future draft picks...

Oh but we could trade them in this year by getting rid of Moore and Grundy...

Lets put it this way, we trade Grundy for 2 top picks this year, or lose him next year to free agency and get 1 first round pick which is probably just after our pick, which we will have probably traded away for some washed up 30 year old...
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We are not trading 2 generational talents, on risky untried kids IMO.
You build teams around talents like Grundy Moore and JDG.

You win flags with that type of talent - you don’t trade it for unknown quantities and POTENTIAL.

And yes I believe Moore will overcome his hammy problems just as Grimes did.
And your earlier point that WC won a flag without their number one ruckmen - its a reflection of the quality of their list not the lack of importance of a ruck man.
 

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No SPIN said:
We are not trading 2 generational talents, on risky untried kids IMO.
You build teams around talents like Grundy Moore and JDG.

You win flags with that type of talent - you don’t trade it for unknown quantities and POTENTIAL.

And yes I believe Moore will overcome his hammy problems just as Grimes did.
And your earlier point that WC won a flag without their number one ruckmen - its a reflection of the quality of their list not the lack of importance of a ruck man.
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No, its the lack of importance of ruckmen in the modern game. The AA discussion centres entirely around 2 players last year and again this year, neither of which is a chance to feature in the latter part of September this year. We are supposed to have the no1 ruckman in the game along with an elite midfield yet we lose the centre clearances time and time again, what does that tell you? Ruckmen are overrated or Grundy gets lots of useless hitouts?
 
eddiesmith said:
No, its the lack of importance of ruckmen in the modern game. The AA discussion centres entirely around 2 players last year and again this year, neither of which is a chance to feature in the latter part of September this year. We are supposed to have the no1 ruckman in the game along with an elite midfield yet we lose the centre clearances time and time again, what does that tell you? Ruckmen are overrated or Grundy gets lots of useless hitouts?
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That statistical assessment of a midfield as a stand alone measure is crap.
 
eddiesmith said:
No, its the lack of importance of ruckmen in the modern game. The AA discussion centres entirely around 2 players last year and again this year, neither of which is a chance to feature in the latter part of September this year. We are supposed to have the no1 ruckman in the game along with an elite midfield yet we lose the centre clearances time and time again, what does that tell you? Ruckmen are overrated or Grundy gets lots of useless hitouts?
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If it’s only about hit outs why is Grundy considered the best player in the game by Mathews and others?
 
West Coast were missing their best ruckman in the Grand Final,but they had two very good ruckmen that day who worked Grundy over and helped them get over the line.If they'd just gone in with one ordinary ruckman they almost certainly would have lost that game.Ruckmen are still important,even in today's game.
 
Every man has his price, but Grundy is an outstanding talent. The new rules have made ruckmen extremely important again. I would retain him at any cost
Every man has his price, but de Goey is a super talent. His recent on-ball form has greatly impressed me - and opposition clubs will be very worried when he rests in the forward line. (think Fyfe) I would trade him ONLY if the offer was ridiculous.
We can build a team around this pair.

On the other hand, while every man has his price I think that Moore is vulnerable; if one of the three had to go, I would trade Darcy if we received a good enough offer (eg an automatic selection and a top 10 draft pick).
All of the above presumes that the boys' salary demands are reasonable. One player does not win a flag and we have to keep enough money in the cap to satisfy the rest of the squad.
 
eddiesmith said:
No, its the lack of importance of ruckmen in the modern game. The AA discussion centres entirely around 2 players last year and again this year, neither of which is a chance to feature in the latter part of September this year. We are supposed to have the no1 ruckman in the game along with an elite midfield yet we lose the centre clearances time and time again, what does that tell you? Ruckmen are overrated or Grundy gets lots of useless hitouts?
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The thing with Grundy is not only does he win hitouts but he's gets as many touches as another midfielder and he can mark around the ground. He's unparalleled as a ruckman at ground level.
 
Out of the 3 If I could only keep 1 it would be JDG - out of the 3 he is real match winner and can play multiple positions.
Moore is worth extra years if he can stay on the field.
Grundy is good but not great - yes he gets tap outs but his skills by hand and foot are not very good.
As well he lacks the discipline of not giving away dumb free kicks.
GC last week - 1st half Grundy fumbles handball in the centre square GC take away - goal.
2nd half dumb free kick in the GC 50 arc - goal.
Great players don't do that.
Grundy is worth keeping - but if the reward is high trade him - and draft more ruck talent or go to free agency.
If you have good mids you can get away with an average ruckman.
Tigers seem to be going back to old days of resting a ruckman in the forward line and if they score it is a bonus.
We cannot use Cox as a viable ruckman as he does not have the skill set to get the job done.
I hope to see Lynch and see what he can do.
 
If Grundy wants to stay, we should do whatever it takes to make that possible. He is a generational ruckman, a proper A grade talent and arguably our beat player.

If Grundy doesn't want to stay, we need to establish that as soon as possible. The Crows are in a good position to trade for him at the end of this year with Carltons first rounder likely to be a top 3 pick. Add in a future first and perhaps a Victorian kid who has a brother at Collingwood already, and you might have yourself a compelling deal (again, this is in the event that Grundy wants to leave).

Following that, we could have a sniff around at the free agency market and try and sure up some problem areas. We could consolidate some of our available cap room to re sign some key players (particularly DeGoey). We could also look at flipping our future first rounder (or the one we receive from the Crows) for a ready made ruckman to fill the gap and keep us competitive.
 
Collingwoodity said:
The issue with this blind optimism is that it is displaced and undermines reality.

The reality, what you call 'bullshyte', is that those 1st round picks have been constantly in and out of the side for years. Their talent is generally unquestioned.

Despite these players' ability to play football, we still cannot win a flag. The Pies generally look to be, at best, the second best side in any single season. Rarely do the Pies look like the best side, and even when that happens we lose the flag (2011).

As some might say, runner up means that you are the first loser, the best of the losers, never the winner.
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Never quite understood the 2011, we are the best side notion.
We played one side three times and lost three times of which only one of those games was relatively close.

I kind of think we were a clear second best side and Geelong had our measure.

They had a great era circa 2007 to 2011.
 

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Thatsmyname said:
Moore is the one that's expendable, with the emergence of Roughead he really should be playing forward but he's injured all the time, so just pull the trigger and get a key forward we can put a premiership around
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Moore be lot harder to Replace then De Goey
 
Thatsmyname said:
No, De Goey is a once in a gen player, Moore hasn't proved that yet and has durability concerns
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Well I feel like we have Stephenson/WHE who could play Simmlar Role the another KPP
 
Jordy is probably a once in a generation player, Moore could be a generational defender, though both are more flexible in term of positions, than Grundy who is probably the best of the three.
 

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