Autopsy Canny Crows take a giant dump on dopey dogs from up high. 63-62.

[lachy]

As for yesterday's game, we are in trouble this year. Too shallow in talls and recruiting to many of the same type of players. A few injuries to those talls and we are seriously exposed.

The bigger issue is no one can be properly developed in pursuit VFL team with our unbalanced list.

We could still make finals this year as there are very few consistently good teams

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[lachy]

We only offered him one year until West Coast made an offer.
Sweet has a lot of work to do, especially considering he hasn't been able to replicate his VFL from from the start of last year which was pretty good.

But surely here is where the problem lies Mof. We already had him fir a couple of years. Martin is cooked and is the only ruck we have brought in since Sweet. Surely we need 2 to 3 developing rucks so at least one has an opportunity to step up. Yet the best we have done is sign a known player who even up to last year was not trusted to develop in the seniors

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[lachy]

To be in a position where we have 2 back up ruckman who are incapable of playing 1sts is terrible list management.

Martin around 70% game time and negative metres gains for the match while his opponent dominated

Our hope Sweet with a 2 year contract renewal struggles at VFL level

What were they thinking last off season off a GF, we are not in rebuild mode

100% correct but it is longer than just last trade/draft period.

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[D Mitchell]

Actually he said Dale was no good as a defender one on one, which his isn't.

The way he framed his comments about Jong were not respectful, but Jong was a player with serious limitations who got the best out of himself.

He did Actually have very close contacts within the playing group which did provide very accurate tream selection news which was often bagged and no apologies were forthcoming.

He did make personalised comments, often when others disagreed, but often after not only personal comments were made against him and there were a few posters, who actually personally attacked him and his business outside of this forum. Btw I could name 10.posters who regularly still post who make personal insults against other posters if they disagree with them.

The fact is he is no longer posting but more than enough posters have replaced him with many threads off topic and personal insults still flying around.



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Well done, Lachy. It isn't always easy to take a stand against a pile on and in the diplomatic way you have. That bit about posters who "personally attacked him and his business outside of this forum" is disturbing, though.

 

[lachy]

What part was illogical? We're f***ed in the ruck with or without Martin, but what are the viable alternatives? English unavailable, Sweet non-existent form-line.
Cordy/Schache when Cordy can't run out a full game playing on the ball. Schache can, but if they're splitting ruck 50/50, they'll both be too f***ed to rest anywhere except the bench.

Nothing wrong with any of this. We basically have English then give up any competitiveness in the 6 to 8 minutes he is off and have nothing at all if English is injured.

This is why we needed to get games into Sweet when we had an opportunity as we could not be any worse off with the list we have

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[ScragCity]

That bit about posters who "personally attacked him and his business outside of this forum" is disturbing, though.

It would be if it were true, which I doubt. Knowing MD it was another fantasy invented to feed his victim complex.

 

[Foxman98]

It would be if it were true, which I doubt. Knowing MD it was another fantasy invented to feed his victim complex.

What is the point of adding that? Just say yes its not on.

 

[lachy]

Yep of course all my fault. Love the line knowing MD.

Actually I do know MD away from this forum, where we had many a debate, and it is 100% correct

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[threenewpadlocks]

People are honestly losing tbe plot if they think Khamis could have come in and done better. He's the only AFL listed player in our VFl front six among a bunch of guys we'vve recruited out of the WRFL, NAB League and Ammos (so not ex-AFL players) so whilst it's a good sign he's performing while out of position, you'd still expect him to be the best player out of that group. And we're not playing him in a position he's retrained in for literally 1 week in the VFL that is likely just a way to try snd save his career after younger Raak and Clearly play the same position and look just as good.

Poiny being is that McNeil kicked 5 and in two games has clearly looked below the standard. Butler and McComb won the most touches for our VFL team and clearly looked below the standard. By virtue of being about one of the 8 AFL listed blokes of which 4 of them are not 1st year players in a VFL game doesn't mean you're up to AFL standard.

I'm somewhat surprised Roarke wasn't an instant inclusion for Hunter to play a similar role even with worse VFL form than McComb or whatever. At least Roarke has some AFL runs on the board. There's a fundamental reason blokes like Khamis and McComb were available to us with effectively our final list spots, as much as I'd like to cheer for them to beat the odds.

 

[D Mitchell]

To be in a position where we have 2 back up ruckman who are incapable of playing 1sts is terrible list management.

Martin around 70% game time and negative metres gains for the match while his opponent dominated

Our hope Sweet with a 2 year contract renewal struggles at VFL level

What were they thinking last off season off a GF, we are not in rebuild mode

We chased Martin some years back, ironically, because Bev liked his work around the ground. I imagine that the thinking was that Martin had 2 years left in him, it looks like it was 1. We won a Premiership without a ruckman. It seems to me that Bev still sees the ruckman role as less important than many on this Board think. It isn't necessarily bad forward planning.

 

[Foxman98]

We chased Martin some years back, ironically, because Bev liked his work around the ground. I imagine that the thinking was that Martin had 2 years left in him, it looks like it was 1. We won a Premiership without a ruckman. It seems to me that Bev still sees the ruckman role as less important than many on this Board think. It isn't necessarily bad forward planning.

Boyd was actually growing into the ruck role. He is what we are missing now 201cm ruck/forward to swap with English and would be only 27

 

[D Mitchell]

Boyd was actually growing into the ruck role. He is what we are missing now 201cm ruck/forward to swap with English and would be only 27

Can you imagine a Boyd & English ruck-forward combo this year ? The mind boggles.

 

[lachy]

We chased Martin some years back, ironically, because Bev liked his work around the ground. I imagine that the thinking was that Martin had 2 years left in him, it looks like it was 1. We won a Premiership without a ruckman. It seems to me that Bev still sees the ruckman role as less important than many on this Board think. It isn't necessarily bad forward planning.

Agree we won a premiership without a genuine ruckman, though both Roughy and Boyd are better than Sweet and Martin.

We cleared many a stoppage through our 3rd man up which was disallowed after that season.

Would it be fair to say we have not accepted the impact of that rule change 6 seasons ago, which has precluded us from strengthening that position since?

Have we tried to replicate Richmond's one ruck success?

Has Melbourne last year and West Coast in 2018 shown there was a shift in the role that we as a club missed?

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[D Mitchell]

Agree we won a premiership without a genuine ruckman, though both Roughy and Boyd are better than Sweet and Martin.

We cleared many a stoppage through our 3rd man up which was disallowed after that season.

Would it be fair to say we have not accepted the impact of that rule change 6 seasons ago, which has precluded us from strengthening that position since?

Have we tried to replicate Richmond's one ruck success?

Has Melbourne last year and West Coast in 2018 shown there was a shift in the role that we as a club missed?

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Roughhead came to the club as a ruckman. It's deceptive to say we won a Premiership without one, I suppose. It appears to me that Bev still sees ruckmen as less valuable than many others. Having said that, didn't we pick up English in 2017 as our first post premiership draft pick ? Confusing.

 

[lachy]

Roughhead came to the club as a ruckman. It's deceptive to say we won a Premiership without one, I suppose. It appears to me that Bev still sees ruckmen as less valuable than many others. Having said that, didn't we pick up English in 2017 as our first post premiership draft pick ? Confusing.

I think your last word really sums up the situation perfectly as what you point out is entirely accurate

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[ScragCity]

Actually I do know MD away from this forum

My sympathies

 

[Charlie Bucket]

MD's arguments:

• Dale is sh1t - AA defender
• Jong is sh1t - given his injury history, he was still best 22 in 2016 finals until injured
• Liam Jones was giving him "inside" info - LOL
• Bevo is autocratic and our assistants are sh1t - no one argued Bevo isn't autocratic, and looks like our assistants were good after all
• constantly posted "anyone who disagrees with me knows nothing about football" - LOL
• if someone posted an opposite view to his in the interests of discussion, immediately reverted to personal insults/name-calling ("lefties" was his default - he seemed to think that was some sort of insult, but one time when challenged on what a leftie actually is, was so far off the mark it wasn't funny)

There's probably a lot more, but that last one showed time and again he could not participate in a respectful exchange of opinions.

Many posters on here disagree with each other at times, even in recent posts above, very few resort to name-calling and insults when challenged. MD was a cancer on this board, and side-tracked virtually every thread he posted in.

I'd wager not one mod misses him.

Williams, Daniel and Dale would’ve been delisted if MD was in charge of the club.

“I’d rather play a rock in our back 6 than Dale”

MD’s take on Bevo trialling Dale in the backline. Even after Dale had played a few very good games.

He had one of the worst strike rates in here for getting things right. And that’s saying something.

 

[Foxman98]

My sympathies

Could you be more childish if you tried

 

[Foxman98]

Williams, Daniel and Dale would’ve been delisted if MD was in charge of the club.

“I’d rather play a rock in our back 6 than Dale”

MD’s take on Bevo trialling Dale in the backline. Even after Dale had played a few very good games.

He had one of the worst strike rates in here for getting things right. And that’s saying something.

None are good defenders. Dale would be better on a wing

 

[doggies ftw]

People are honestly losing tbe plot if they think Khamis could have come in and done better. He's the only AFL listed player in our VFl front six among a bunch of guys we'vve recruited out of the WRFL, NAB League and Ammos (so not ex-AFL players) so whilst it's a good sign he's performing while out of position, you'd still expect him to be the best player out of that group. And we're not playing him in a position he's retrained in for literally 1 week in the VFL that is likely just a way to try snd save his career after younger Raak and Clearly play the same position and look just as good.

Poiny being is that McNeil kicked 5 and in two games has clearly looked below the standard. Butler and McComb won the most touches for our VFL team and clearly looked below the standard. By virtue of being about one of the 8 AFL listed blokes of which 4 of them are not 1st year players in a VFL game doesn't mean you're up to AFL standard.

I'm somewhat surprised Roarke wasn't an instant inclusion for Hunter to play a similar role even with worse VFL form than McComb or whatever. At least Roarke has some AFL runs on the board. There's a fundamental reason blokes like Khamis and McComb were available to us with effectively our final list spots, as much as I'd like to cheer for them to beat the odds.

Stopped reading when you said we’ve moved Buku forward to try to save his career because Cleary & Raak are just as good now that’s a bad take if I’ve seen one

Cleary plays half back sure but he’s not even remotely comparable in the air and Raak has been absolutely no where at VFL and is actually playing mostly forward too - have you watched a game to come this conclusion?

Quite clearly Buku was trialled forward/ruck out of absolute necessity in the position due to no one else being available - he’s looked very good and hopefully can keep developing there. No ones saying he’s the answer lmao. Also I was unaware that being in a shit forward line makes you play better.

 

[Erect]

We've been hit with injuries, yes. But we knew before the season started that if we lost English and Keath we'd be ****ed. It's not a solid strategy to rely on 2 key position players to be fit all year. We need solid replacements that can play a simple role. Atm, we don't have that, our tall depth is easily the poorest in the competition, and we all knew this going into the season.

What can we do now? We need stability and to give some players specific simple roles. Bring Khamis in, set him forward, and give him a role on the opposition's intercept defender - don't let him take easy marks. If Stef is to continue to play he needs to be given the role - follow the opposition ruck and don't let him just sit behind the ball and mark everything. For me, this is the biggest problem in our team, we're playing like all our talls are guns like Naughton and giving them the freedom to do whatever they want. Each one of them has to be responsible for something and play within their limitations.

 

[footscray1973]

Nothing wrong with any of this. We basically have English then give up any competitiveness in the 6 to 8 minutes he is off and have nothing at all if English is injured.

This is why we needed to get games into Sweet when we had an opportunity as we could not be any worse off with the list we have

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Yep, agree re Sweet, but this is the conversation in the interim whilst English is unavailable. Which looks like another 3-4 weeks.

Going on Sweet's current inability to dominate games against second-string VFL ruckmen, no one seems to think he's currently the answer, or promotable to the seniors.

So it's Martin and Cordy, or Martin and Schache. I don't know what other options we have. Gardner to pinch-hit, O'Brien?

Until Big Tim is back, we may well set records for ruck contests/hitouts conceded.

There was a game many years ago where our ruck went down in Tassie v Saints, and Matthew Croft rucked the rest of the game. Crofty has a big heart and battled hard, but it was ugly.

 

[footscray1973]

We've been hit with injuries, yes. But we knew before the season started that if we lost English and Keath we'd be f’ed. It's not a solid strategy to rely on 2 key position players to be fit all year. We need solid replacements that can play a simple role. Atm, we don't have that, our tall depth is easily the poorest in the competition, and we all knew this going into the season.

What can we do now? We need stability and to give some players specific simple roles. Bring Khamis in, set him forward, and give him a role on the opposition's intercept defender - don't let him take easy marks. If Stef is to continue to play he needs to be given the role - follow the opposition ruck and don't let him just sit behind the ball and mark everything. For me, this is the biggest problem in our team, we're playing like all our talls are guns like Naughton and giving them the freedom to do whatever they want. Each one of them has to be responsible for something and play within their limitations.

Martin showed yesterday he can't ruck a full game, in fact not even 75%. Some of those marks down the line, Martin was easily outmarked by O'Brien anyway. For most of them though he was on the bench - or nowhere near O'Brien. He is so beyond cooked, I feel sorry for him.

 

[dergert]

Fremantle have leapfrogged us this year.

They're as exciting as us back in 2015- 2016.

 

[Erect]

Martin showed yesterday he can't ruck a full game, in fact not even 75%. Some of those marks down the line, Martin was easily outmarked by O'Brien anyway. For most of them though he was on the bench - or nowhere near O'Brien. He is so beyond cooked, I feel sorry for him.

So you're saying, we've basically screwed ourselves before the season even started

I guess the club was hoping Sweet would improve out of nowhere and become a suitable second-tier ruck for us.

Honestly, if Martin can't run out games he shouldn't be playing. He doesn't dominate enough in the middle for it to be worth it.