Autopsy Rd 8: Dogs battle bravely and come up just short against Hawks

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ossie_21 said:
Pretty much this whole board wants him to be playing, why not is up to our questionable coaching team.

I would 100% debut him against a weak Richmond team, we have absolutely nothing left to lose at this point.
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Flat out “not ready” according to Bevo a few weeks ago. While we pluck JOD from obscurity and then basically play him five minutes after he walks through the door.


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Oliver G said:
I think a big part of the problem is our forward half pressure, the amount of times we kick it straight to the opposition in our forward half and the way we defend kick ins is pathetic. We consistently race the ball forward only to then turn it straight over. That makes it near impossible for our back 6 to defend. It’s a team wide issue.
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Our foot skills were abysmal turned it over so much. And often not under that much pressure
 
Some Idiot said:
We were absolutely smashed in work rate. Our two way running is non existent.
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When we drafted Busslinger (18 months ago I think) there were some saying we should draft Weddle instead. There are still people saying that and I'm not here to say they are wrong or right.

My point is this: had we drafted Weddle and assuming he had duly progressed to being a regular senior playerfor us as he has done at Hawthorn, what's the chances he would be there on the most distance covered list as a Bulldog? I can't prove it but I reckon the chances would be very small indeed.

What does this tell us? It's not the individual player being lazy, unwilling or incapable.
It's our system, our expectations, our coaching.
 
Coaches Votes

Western Bulldogs v Hawthorn​

9 Jarman Impey (HAW)
9 Marcus Bontempelli (WB)
5 Dylan Moore (HAW)
3 James Sicily (HAW)
2 Blake Hardwick (HAW)
2 Conor Nash (HAW)
 
dogwatch said:
When we drafted Busslinger (18 months ago I think) there were some saying we should draft Weddle instead. There are still people saying that and I'm not here to say they are wrong or right.

My point is this: had we drafted Weddle and assuming he had duly progressed to being a regular senior playerfor us as he has done at Hawthorn, what's the chances he would be there on the most distance covered list as a Bulldog? I can't prove it but I reckon the chances would be very small indeed.

What does this tell us? It's not the individual player being lazy, unwilling or incapable.
It's our system, our expectations, our coaching.
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I’ve interpreted our performances since 2022 as a reflection that the players don’t totally buy in to whatever it is we’re doing one week to the next. When you don’t have total buy in, you don’t have total effort.
 
NthBondiDoggies said:
Without aggression at the ball it doesn’t matter much who plays. We won’t deserve it.

One thing that made us stand out when we were a better team was our team defence - pressure on the whole way forcing turnovers. Contrast to today - a half attempt at a tackle then a walk and watch and a lots of ball watchers. Our play off the ball is as important as on it and we were bad without the ball also.

Was also laughable (but not at all funny to see 3 or even 4 talls all in the same part of the ground (deep middle) spoiling each other and with no-one on the ground. Hawks mopped it up in over and over - what didn’t we spread and give our talls area to work in and a small partner. I have talked a few times about mini-teams rather than chaos of 6-12 players trying to work to one plan in the same space.

Hawthorn played the man and it worked - we cracked and at the moment that is our game.

We are mid season and we have to decide whether to adjust our style or go harder at it. I say go harder and faster - I only want people to go for the ball courageously and tacklers!

We had so many bad players today I can’t see it as a match committee thing.

Even in hindsight only maybe Keath and Sanders would have been picked over JOD or Khamis and Clarke or VDM.

Friejah was excellent in the VFL and is building nicely and the game from Williams probably deserves a message.
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Season is most likely cooked I would start investing time into Sanders, Freijah and Busslinger. Khamis is just not good enough defensively if he can't mark he doesn't really bring much too the table
 
Peter Wallis said:
He wasn't the reason we lost but that had to be one of the worst debuts from Clarke that I have seen from a young player in many years. He looked like he had lead in his boots and just panicked whenever he got the ball. Hope he gets another chance next week to try and redeem himself. Clearly nerves got the better of him.
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Yes I do hope he gets a second chance as he could play a solid role. Unfortunately he was that bad that might have to send him back for his own good.
Depends on his personality and the club will have to make that call.
 
VDM cops it a bit but he scored a goal from a centre stoppage on the run going inside 50 (1 of 2 good goals on the night). An interesting variation on the way to use him in the absence of a genuine burst mid. Some paper over a crack but nonetheless it was effective in those instances and to the surprise of many I presume ... he executed. And Bont gave it to him.

If I'm not mistaken, he was charging up CCs as an option to run I50 and shoot. Worth persevering with IMO.
 

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We try and take the game on and play 'quick' footy. But the reality is we just aren't skilled enough to do so. We make poor decisions or poor execution and turn the ball over. It just takes the ball to end up in the hands of anyone but Bont, Libba, Dale, Macrae and the play breaks down.

Our defence other than Jones are not capable of winning contests once we turn the ball over. Our ability to defend turnover is just about the worst in the league and had been for some time.

Watching Melbourne beat Geelong the other night, that's how we need to play. It's boring and slow, but it works. Melbourne slow play the ball more often than not. Taking minimal risk, chipping around the 50, being patient. Allows for the defence to set up behind the footy and makes it near impossible to get scored against on quick transition.

That's our only option to play with the cattle we have. It makes no difference if we move the ball quickly anyway, our tall forwards still end up together competing for the same footy. We may as well play slower and atleast help our helpless backline.
 
Oliver G said:
Learn to read before posting mate, I will still be supporting the club financially, but I will not be renewing my men’s membership until I see actual change in the coaching department. Fortunately it looks like Bevo will be gone by the time renewal comes around.

Oh and the club of late is financially in of it’s best positions it’s ever been in, so the comparison to 89 in that respect is meaningless.
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Sorry but this kind of attitude has just reminded me why our fans are some of the worst in the league. Give credit to bombers and blues they kept turning up despite 20 years of crap from their sides because they love their club.

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BeMoreBont said:
We try and take the game on and play 'quick' footy. But the reality is we just aren't skilled enough to do so. We make poor decisions or poor execution and turn the ball over. It just takes the ball to end up in the hands of anyone but Bont, Libba, Dale, Macrae and the play breaks down.

Our defence other than Jones are not capable of winning contests once we turn the ball over. Our ability to defend turnover is just about the worst in the league and had been for some time.

Watching Melbourne beat Geelong the other night, that's how we need to play. It's boring and slow, but it works. Melbourne slow play the ball more often than not. Taking minimal risk, chipping around the 50, being patient. Allows for the defence to set up behind the footy and makes it near impossible to get scored against on quick transition.

That's our only option to play with the cattle we have. It makes no difference if we move the ball quickly anyway, our tall forwards still end up together competing for the same footy. We may as well play slower and atleast help our helpless backline.
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But even when we move it slow if we turn it over our structure behind the balls a shit show and we get outnumbered
 
Norm De Guerre said:
The umpires were awful. The rest is just the usual woe is me defeatist crap that we as supporters have historically fallen back on during our pitiful history.

To use the umpires as a crutch to prop up the shambolic way that our side played on weekend is just a cop out.

This game was lost at selection, when we chose to go in so tall against a side almost bereft of the same.

I could understand this approach if it was a well oiled machine, smashing teams off the park with its aerial dominance. But it just isn't. The reality is that it didn't look like working when we tried it last year. And it shows no signs of working this year. Indeed it's an albatross around our neck as we are shown up week after week by better balanced teams that have more run and a willingness to work hard both ways.
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Many events coalesce during a game. It is never just one thing that determines victory or defeat.

I’m not saying we shouldn’t address the other factors which contributed to our defeat.

However to ignore a factor that is becoming a consistent concern that has significantly contributed to us losing close games would be equally foolish. We seriously need to do better as a crowd and supporter group. If we don’t complain it will keep happening.

BTW I agree we made some bad selection calls. Marra in for Lobb being one, omitting Daniel another, and not playing Keath in front of Buku a third.
 
Claudonious said:
Correct


Cast Offs or too old

Bramble
Baker
Harmes
Duryea


Not at the level

Vandermeer
Garcia


Developing and Jury out

JOD
Khamis
Gallagher
Clarke

Flakey and out of form

JJ
Williams


That is 12 of the 23. Yes, our top 5 are great - but it falls away.Coach challenges aside - half our team is average or worse.
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Thats how averages work. The key is to give the bottom half of the team specific roles that they can execute and have them give maximum effort
 
Next Waiting said:
VDM cops it a bit but he scored a goal from a centre stoppage on the run going inside 50 (1 of 2 good goals on the night). An interesting variation on the way to use him in the absence of a genuine burst mid. Some paper over a crack but nonetheless it was effective in those instances and to the surprise of many I presume ... he executed. And Bont gave it to him.

If I'm not mistaken, he was charging up CCs as an option to run I50 and shoot. Worth persevering with IMO.
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After he kicked the first goal of the game (in about 15 seconds) he didnt have another possession for more than 2 quarters
 
Libba39 said:
Sorry but this kind of attitude has just reminded me why our fans are some of the worst in the league. Give credit to bombers and blues they kept turning up despite 20 years of crap from their sides because they love their club.

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And for 20 years neither of those clubs had lists with strengths even comparable to ours. They had a lot of average players play 100-200+ games in those eras.
 
Libba39 said:
Sorry but this kind of attitude has just reminded me why our fans are some of the worst in the league. Give credit to bombers and blues they kept turning up despite 20 years of crap from their sides because they love their club.

On SM-A505YN using BigFooty.com mobile app
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I remember looking at total memberships over the last couple of decades. And for a time back then we were on par with, and even ahead of a few teams that now somehow have 10k more members than we do. Despite us being competitive and making finals regularly. Whilst the others have been terrible and done nothing.

Baffling how teams with poor form, were able to race well ahead of us, despite us making finals, and a flag and more up years than down years.

Granted Melbourne had their rally behind Stynes where they raced out by a few thousand more ahead of us. The flag just brought out a few thousand more and they are now well ahead (though it tells me they probably always had loads more, just bandwagoners). And North had their relocation scare campaign where they to seemed to gain a few thousand ahead of us, over a decade ago. And both teams never looked back since despite being two of the worst teams for most of the same period.

Saints have done nothing and are now well ahead of us as well. Makes me wonder where we went wrong? From being on par with other teams, to being well behind on total memberships despite better years? Club poor at recruiting new fans? Our fans suck? Other teams always had way more, just only just decided to rock up in recent times? Would have loved to have kept pace with all those teams and not be a fair bit behind. Imagine how far back we'd be if we were poor like Demons and North were.
 
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_Cerberus_ said:
I remember looking at memberships over the last couple of decades. And for a time we were on par with, and ahead of a few teams that now somehow have 10k more members than we do. Despite us being competitive and making finals regularly. Whilst others have been terrible and done nothing.

Baffling how teams with poor form, were able to race well ahead of us, despite finals and a flag and more up years than down years. Granted Melbourne had their rally behind Stynes where they raced out by a few thousand more. Though they might have always had thousands of more, given their further massive increase when they won the flag. And North had their relocation scare campaign where they to seemed to gain a few thousand over a decade ago. And they never looked back since despite being two of the worst teams for most of the same period.

Saints done nothing and are well ahead of us as well. Makes me wonder where we went wrong? From being on par with other teams, to being well behind on total memberships despite better years? Club poor at recruiting new fans?
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Nah the name change and then the Ballarat experiment are bringing in the members
 
CarnTheScray said:
And for 20 years neither of those clubs had lists with strengths even comparable to ours. They had a lot of average players play 100-200+ games in those eras.
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Unlike many on here I reckon our list is way overrated.

-English is an average ruck lacking aggression
-Macrae, Duryea, JJ and Daniel all past their best
-Several players have potential but are still young, inexperienced or lack physical maturity (Darcy, Odonnell, Khamis and even JUH)
-Lack midfield depth after Dunkley and -Lipinski leaving (plus Baz injury)
-Lobb trade proving to be a major bust





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Oliver G said:
Learn to read before posting mate, I will still be supporting the club financially, but I will not be renewing my men’s membership until I see actual change in the coaching department. Fortunately it looks like Bevo will be gone by the time renewal comes around.

Oh and the club of late is financially in of it’s best positions it’s ever been in, so the comparison to 89 in that respect is meaningless.
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i know how to read. Just think you are childish and pathetic, like a mini Bruce Mathieson. We have a $6m judgement debt.
 

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Autopsy Rd 8: Dogs battle bravely and come up just short against Hawks

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