Official Club Stuff Carlton Academy - Next Gen & Father/Son/Daughter Discussion

[WalshistheGOAT]

 

[The Defender]

Hanger, one handed pick ups, snags, stride length panther like

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Hanger, one handed pick ups, snags, stride length panther like

It's over for the league isn't it? No wonder they're trying to change the rules.

 

[ray8182]

Don't agree with this.

Firstly because Ben is rated as a first round by most so that just flat makes sense to match a bid, but secondly it's a bad precedent to set to other kids in your academy/f/s program in that you're flimsy with your commitment to them, which isn't good for the former player or the other kids in the room.

The Edwards v Crows issue was a good example, the Crows have damaged their relationship with a former champion because they messed around with Luke. You don't really want to be alienating your greats over a bid match of pick 12 vs pick 15. Granted if it's something crazy like pick 5 then a decision needs to be made, but mostly you'll match a bid in the general vicinity of their value, even if it's a couple picks higher than expected.

Even then clubs don't normally bid that far out from their true rating anyway, they don't want to pick a kid with a 27 value at pick 13 just to mess with you.

Every club and future father son draftee has to face up to some hard truths around the father son program. That is that if a bid comes in that is too high it will not be matched. I’m sure the club would make this clear to the player from the start.

In the past clubs have not matched bids. Pretty sure Collingwood has passed over father sons. Didn’t cause problems with Moore or daicos brothers. Past players don’t dictate how we draft today.

If Ben is bid on at 15 and l rate him more around pick 30 lm not taking him.

There are some draft watchers who rate Ben in the first round. That does not mean clubs rate him first round. Opinions vary. From limited viewing of watching some highlights and a little bit of the champs my opinion is that Ben is an inside midfielder with a poor to average kick who has no second position. Doesn’t mean he can’t be a good player. It just means l don’t rate him in the first round.

On top of that l don’t think the inside midfield position is a priority for Carlton at the moment. We need to address other areas.

 

[DangerousD]

Don't agree with this.

Firstly because Ben is rated as a first round by most so that just flat makes sense to match a bid, but secondly it's a bad precedent to set to other kids in your academy/f/s program in that you're flimsy with your commitment to them, which isn't good for the former player or the other kids in the room.

The Edwards v Crows issue was a good example, the Crows have damaged their relationship with a former champion because they messed around with Luke. You don't really want to be alienating your greats over a bid match of pick 12 vs pick 15. Granted if it's something crazy like pick 5 then a decision needs to be made, but mostly you'll match a bid in the general vicinity of their value, even if it's a couple picks higher than expected.

Even then clubs don't normally bid that far out from their true rating anyway, they don't want to pick a kid with a 27 value at pick 13 just to mess with a club.

What did Crows do with Edwards? I agree with most of your view but i thought Edwards wasnt good enough, sometimes parents need to suck it up if their kid isn’t up to the level.

 

[marcmurphy3]

Every club and future father son draftee has to face up to some hard truths around the father son program. That is that if a bid comes in that is too high it will not be matched. I’m sure the club would make this clear to the player from the start.

In the past clubs have not matched bids. Pretty sure Collingwood has passed over father sons. Didn’t cause problems with Moore or daicos brothers. Past players don’t dictate how we draft today.

If Ben is bid on at 15 and l rate him more around pick 30 lm not taking him.

There are some draft watchers who rate Ben in the first round. That does not means clubs rate him first round. Opinions vary. From limited viewing of watching some highlights and a little bit of the champs my opinion is that Ben is an inside midfielder with a poor to average kick who has no second position. Doesn’t mean he can’t be a good player. It just means l don’t rate him in the first round.

On top of that l don’t think the inside midfield position is a priority for Carlton at the moment. We need to address other areas.

What you're saying makes sense if we rate Ben 30 and he is bid on at 15. That said, I doubt there will be a 15-pick disparity between where the bid comes and where we rate Ben.

 

[swuzzlebubble]

A discount is necessary to be able to match a bid though, especially with what it seems like the points will be, either this year or next (ie only points values on top 40 picks only).

We'll need to see the details of how it will work if it goes that way. Eg if there's some sort of "use the next pick" option beyond 40, will there be some variation of that for the bids in the 30s etc...

 

[Ninja Worrier]

Stop it

 

[Juice030103]

not many players his age make you go WOW
but he certainly does

 

[ray8182]

What you're saying makes sense if we rate Ben 30 and he is bid on at 15. That said, I doubt there will be a 15-pick disparity between where the bid comes and where we rate Ben.

More simply If another club bids on Ben before our first round pick l wouldn’t match it. Once you get into the 20’s it becomes a little greyish.

We have no idea where the club rates Ben in this draft and they probably won’t know until the end of the season when they do there analysis of all the draftees.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[FlowersByIrene]

More simply If another club bids on Ben before our first round pick l wouldn’t match it. Once you get into the 20’s it becomes a little greyish.

We have no idea where the club rates Ben in this draft and they probably won’t know until the end of the season when they do there analysis of all the draftees.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

It's not grey, once it gets past 20 we're either interested or we're not. Everyone beyond the 20's is a lottery, if we like them at all, we'll be taking them once they get into that range. You could make an argument for Top 15, but by 20.. the story would be worth more than the pure shot you have at nailing a later pick.

 

[Red_man2008]

Those pick ups are elite for a mature player. The kid could go at one. **** these new rules.

 

[Dramoth]

But he will forever be known as a Carlton player and premiership assistant coach.

Even Jezza ended up at the saints- but everyone considers him a Carlton great

The Aint's was the Carlton footballers retirement society. When they finished their elite career at Carlton, they went to St Kilda for a couple of years to fund their retirement.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

So if Ben hasn't been bid on by the time our first pick comes along, but gets bid on after our pick but still in the first round (assuming we don't win the flag), what happens then if we have already used our pick, but the AFL want us to pay a first rounder for him? Do we use our 2025 1st rounder or do we miss out?

Is this going to revert to the old system where clubs put in bids prior to the draft? I remember this happened with Darcy Moore

30

Darcy Moore

Age

28

Ht

203cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.1

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

4.1

3star

M

4.8

5star

T

1.6

4star

MG

169.1

3star

D

13.9

3star

K

7.3

3star

HB

6.6

4star

M

4.9

5star

T

0.7

1star

MG

182.0

3star

D

6.8

2star

K

4.2

2star

HB

2.6

3star

M

2.6

3star

T

1.8

4star

MG

87.4

2star

.

 

[Triniboy]

Ben looks a player…good hands…creates space. reminds me a bit of the hyphen.

 

[swuzzlebubble]

Is this going to revert to the old system where clubs put in bids prior to the draft?

Could be necessary if bids are to be matched with picks within a fixed range. The bids might need to be prior to trade week.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

So if Ben hasn't been bid on by the time our first pick comes along, but gets bid on after our pick but still in the first round (assuming we don't win the flag), what happens then if we have already used our pick, but the AFL want us to pay a first rounder for him? Do we use our 2025 1st rounder or do we miss out?

Is this going to revert to the old system where clubs put in bids prior to the draft? I remember this happened with Darcy Moore.

Guess we will find out on draft night as I’ve no doubt all things won’t be presented to clubs next week and they will make it up on the spot.

 

[My Hat]

So if Ben hasn't been bid on by the time our first pick comes along, but gets bid on after our pick but still in the first round (assuming we don't win the flag), what happens then if we have already used our pick, but the AFL want us to pay a first rounder for him? Do we use our 2025 1st rounder or do we miss out?

Is this going to revert to the old system where clubs put in bids prior to the draft? I remember this happened with Darcy Moore.

Clearly this is the solution. Get yourself the last pick in a round, select anyone else's father-son or academy picks, and there's nothing anyone can do to stop you.

 

[Lace_Out]

Might have to try and turn our 1st into 2 1st rounders by adding a future 2nd rounder perhaps.

Sent from my SM-G998B using Tapatalk

 

[TPC05]

What do we think the likelihood of getting both the twins are if these changes come into affect?

 

[goreds]

What do we think the likelihood of getting both the twins are if these changes come into affect?

We will get both.

 

[Coops93]

What did Crows do with Edwards? I agree with most of your view but i thought Edwards wasnt good enough, sometimes parents need to suck it up if their kid isn’t up to the level.

He was picked in the 50s so it wasn't as though it was an expensive bid match. He was always going to draft, but drafted low. I'm going back now but iirc I believe the Crows had indicated earlier on they would take him, but ultimately didn't, which turned the nose of Edwards' a bit. But in terms of the quality of player, it's not a big issue as he's obviously not quite good enough anyway.

 

[Coops93]

More simply If another club bids on Ben before our first round pick l wouldn’t match it. Once you get into the 20’s it becomes a little greyish.

We have no idea where the club rates Ben in this draft and they probably won’t know until the end of the season when they do there analysis of all the draftees.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Like I said in my first reply, if it's a pick 12 bid and we're at 14 you'd match it for sure. Your example of pick 30 and 15 goes to what I said about it being a big discrepancy.

I believe we have some idea on how they're rated given how strongly Voss responded to the question around changes and how it likely stops us being able to get them both. We obviously are wanting them both and have set up our draft around taking them. In overall draft ranking, perhaps we don't know exactly. But what we do know is they've set up the entire draft around these 2, so we obviously rate them and are prepared to match fairly decent bids for them.

 

[ferrisb]

Wonder where these changes are coming from?
I suspect gws and gcs and the new tassie team have raised it

Been an issue for a number of years.

I think Gold Coast's massive haul last year pushed clubs over the edge.

 

[Coops93]

Been an issue for a number of years.

I think Gold Coast's massive haul last year pushed clubs over the edge.

Daicos to Collingwood I think also had an effect, those 2 events in subsequent yrs has probably been enough.