Meltdown Carlton and Collingwood - who finishes higher in 2024?

[Fadge]

Well we played Collingwood, Melbourne, St kilda and GWS twice this year. Wouldn't call that a particularly easy draw.

And West Coast.

So it was easier than Collingwood's (despite Collingwood not being able to play against the best team in the competition).

Nonetheless, it's irrelevant. If you're good enough, you're good enough.

 

[Worm4]

Admissible

I really can't be bothered going back and fact checking every alleged Carlton SC breach, just too many of them

Suffice to say, the cheating was significant and consistent

The thing is , this supposed evidence was never presented to the AFL as a serious breach of salary cap rules , you really have to question whether it was factual or not. More likely not

Admissible

I really can't be bothered going back and fact checking every alleged Carlton SC breach, just too many of them

Suffice to say, the cheating was significant and consistent

 

[Fadge]

I wasn't explaining away any of Collingwood's success at all. Not everything is an attack on Collingwood

And your point about Carlton is way off. Bottom teams should be getting the easiest of draws in the comp - unfortunately we weren't so lucky in a lot of these years

2019 - Carlton after finishing last in 2018 (with only 2 wins!!!) had a more difficult draw (based on Champion data rankings) than Richmond who made a prelim plus six other teams

2020 - Carlton's fixture was ranked 6th hardest despite finishing 16th in 2019, and this was harder than 7/8 of the top 8 teams from 2019

2021 - Carlton's fixture was again ranked as the 6th hardest despite finishing 11th (7-10 record) in 2020, and this was more difficult than 5 of the top 10 teams from 2020

2022 - Carlton's fixture was ranked the easiest of the comp (thanks to the fact they finished 13th which puts them in the bottom 6 group for "weighted" fixturing) but it ended up being far from that due to the significant improvement of 3/5 of their double-up opponents who all missed finals in 2021 (Pies, Dockers and Tigers). Carlton ended up playing 11/22 games against the top 8 (only Giants, Saints and Bombers played more with 12).

I'm a bit confused about whether these 'difficulty' rankings were based on finishing positions the season prior, or finishing positions for that season.

Interesting that the teams who played the most games against top 8 teams in 2022 were all outside the top 8. Maybe if those teams win more games, their draw is 'easier'....

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Admissible

I really can't be bothered going back and fact checking every alleged Carlton SC breach, just too many of them

Suffice to say, the cheating was significant and consistent

There's no need to go back and fact check. All of the breaches were investigated, catalogued and punished and...

checks notes

1995 was NOT one of them.

Case closed.

 

[carlton_99]

I'm a bit confused about whether these 'difficulty' rankings were based on finishing positions the season prior, or finishing positions for that season.

Interesting that the teams who played the most games against top 8 teams in 2022 were all outside the top 8. Maybe if those teams win more games, their draw is 'easier'....

Difficulty rankings were done when the fixture was released so assuming it was based on previous year. But for a bottom 4 team the set draw was predicted to be relatively difficult

 

[OniAu]

Difficulty rankings were done when the fixture was released so assuming it was based on previous year. But for a bottom 4 team the set draw was predicted to be relatively difficult

oh dear lord. Who cares .

Only thing that matters in football is a flag. Both clubs have been miserable the past 20 years

 

[carlton_99]

oh dear lord. Who cares .

Only thing that matters in football is a flag. Both clubs have been miserable the past 20 years

Great thread cleanser

 

[PieLebo87]

Chief this thread has gone way over 10K posts.


Time to it

The topic of Collingwood being perennial bridesmaids is all good for 400 odd pages, but as soon as anyone shows lip back at Carlton, we call in the mods?

Let’s not have double standards.

 

[Corn Cobbers]

There's no need to go back and fact check. All of the breaches were investigated, catalogued and punished and...

checks notes

1995 was NOT one of them.

Case closed.

Well done, you went a whole year in the 90s without proven cheating!!

 

[No SPIN]

No it means Carlton were not charged for any premiership year, anything else is just a rumour,

No - it’s a fact you cheated with paper bag payments according to the AFL and fined accordingly. And you were serial offenders over a long period so the cheating was prolonged and systematic.
There’s no argument that flags resulted - otherwise the cheating was pointless.

I think I’ll rest there because I’ve emphatically made my point.

 

[No SPIN]

So again , it's not factual.
It's like Caro saying " it's my understanding...." knowing that whatever is reported , if wrong , cant come back to bite her as it is what her sources have told her.
Unless you can bring up a link from the AFL that Carlton were fined , suspended or whatever , then it's total bullshit and misreported. But it is the HUN , so it's more than likely rubbish

It’s factual - otherwise Collins would have sued for defamation.

 

[No SPIN]

There's no need to go back and fact check. All of the breaches were investigated, catalogued and punished and...

checks notes

1995 was NOT one of them.

Case closed.

That you actually believe that, makes you very naive.

 

[carlton_99]

I think I’ll rest there

one can only hope...

 

[Aphrodite]

The topic of Collingwood being perennial bridesmaids is all good for 400 odd pages, but as soon as anyone shows lip back at Carlton, we call in the mods?

Let’s not have double standards.

You obviously missed the sarcasm in my post.

This emoji was a giveaway.


As if this thread will be locked.

 

[JyeDye]

Collingwood were probably cheating for 40 years but no one gave a **** because they were still that shit.

 

[Arr0w]

As the great man will say -

View attachment 1789848

The one that had us finishing 11th?

 

[Elixuh]

Oof it’s been a while gentlemen. Carlton has come home strong late. I can feel a bit of fear creeping in from the Collingwood fans.

Could we see a wobble and a straight sets exit

 

[Fadge]

Oof it’s been a while gentlemen. Carlton has come home strong late. I can feel a bit of fear creeping in from the Collingwood fans.

Could we see a wobble and a straight sets exit

A Brisbane supporter talking about wobbles in finals.

Very cute.

 

[Elixuh]

A Brisbane supporter talking about wobbles in finals.

Very cute.

This is how it starts. H&A form tanks in the last few weeks of the season. The coach reassures everyone it’s ok. Wobble against melb in a qualifying final. Coach reassures everyone it’s ok. Then the wobble turn into water against Carlton and it’s all over.

 

[No SPIN]

Collingwood were probably cheating for 40 years but no one gave a * because they were still that s**t.

Lame response friend- lift your game.

 

[Fadge]

Lame response friend- lift your game.

He's certainly lost his spark over the past week or so.

Must be getting nervous now that his team's finally qualified in the top 45% of teams, and about to enter the real stuff...

 

[No SPIN]

This is how it starts. H&A form tanks in the last few weeks of the season. The coach reassures everyone it’s ok. Wobble against melb in a qualifying final. Coach reassures everyone it’s ok. Then the wobble turn into water against Carlton and it’s all over.

Or win win win !!!!

 

[Fadge]

This is how it starts. H&A form tanks in the last few weeks of the season. The coach reassures everyone it’s ok. Wobble against melb in a qualifying final. Coach reassures everyone it’s ok. Then the wobble turn into water against Carlton and it’s all over.

What I can't get my head around if that if this scenario is such a sure thing, why haven't any Carlton supporters taken me up on my offer of an Avatar bet?

 

[Fadge]

Or win win win !!!!

The inconvenient reality is that this scenario is infinitely more probable, given no minor premier has exited the finals in straight sets under the current finals system.

 

[Elixuh]

What I can't get my head around if that if this scenario is such a sure thing, why haven't any Carlton supporters taken me up on my offer of an Avatar bet?

Because they're as afraid as you are