Carlton formally request Priority Pick

[Fossey]

You should be lobbying Gil and city hall for the cap allowances that Eddie was very strong in abolishing, instead of demanding changes to the draft order. Player retention is your issue, not which jumper Josh Schache pulls on.

I largely agree ... But actually think compo picks should be at end of round (& that includes for Leuy). AFL has totally stuffed it last year. Whilst on it, I reckon sides picking up Free Agents should also be having to give something up !!

 

[Doro]

I largely agree ... But actually think compo picks should be at end of round (& that includes for Leuy). AFL has totally stuffed it last year. Whilst on it, I reckon sides picking up Free Agents should also be having to give something up !!

Yeah maybe some sort of weighting in line with what they've done with the F/S rule for the compo picks, either I think any changes have to be flagged early in the season, rather than after final ladder positions are in place.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

I don't think you take in much that ODNs says - his podcast speech about the club was anything but regurgitation of club talking points.

Stop being so fond of your own sweeping generalisations.

JD does like to waffle. Claims a lot of victories that only he sees. Says I keep getting proven wrong but doesn't say where. Reckon he's trying recapture some long gone relevance as some sort of stirrer. Game has passed him by.

 

[Gmod23]

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I actually DON'T totally disagree re PP.. But Lions certainly need structural compensations (eg Salary cap retention allowance) to try and combat go-home factor, which as has been stated is PREDOMINANTLY because of the minor sport status of AFL up here. (I really don't believe AFL States have any idea of where AFL sits up here in the scheme of things ..... & the only chance of this changing is for a competitive Lions (& Suns). At worst, when they go thru the inevitable decline as they did after the 3-peat it cant last too long.... Which is exactly the case at the moment.

Lions absolutely abused the extra salary cap space last time. No way they will get it back. No sympathy from us, as they used the pick to get Blake Caracella (spelling?) from the bombers after beating them in a grand final, rather than using it on their own players.
Might not like my response but you made your bed on not getting extra cap allowance. What Lions do need to do is concentrate on their academy. Huge advantage, wish we had one! That is your leveler. It will take years to fix things though.
A better idea than another high pick that will leave, is to get more rookie spots. Those players are really driven and can really grow the team. Dogs just played finals with 7 ex-rookie listed players in that team and with a super inexperienced team almost beat Adelaide.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Lions absolutely abused the extra salary cap space last time. No way they will get it back. No sympathy from us, as they used the pick to get Blake Caracella (spelling?) from the bombers after beating them in a grand final, rather than using it on their own players.

Uh, dude, we got Caracella with the cap space that was earmarked for Headland until he decided to choof off at the last minute.

How is that abusing the extra cap space? A good player left, so we replaced him.

 

[Gmod23]

Uh, dude, we got Caracella with the cap space that was earmarked for Headland until he decided to choof off at the last minute.

How is that abusing the extra cap space? A good player left, so we replaced him.

You lost 1 player (who you replaced, on a higher salary than other non-finals teams could match) in an era where your competitors lost players due to the cap.

 

[Crankyhawk]

Perhaps. However it's more about saying "x" club is about handouts and should fold. All clubs have taken handouts at some stage be it monetary or draft wise.

Crows may be the exception.

 

[Crankyhawk]

A special shout out to all you logic busters out there who claimed in this thread that the Blues don't need this PP while also claiming in another thread that Parkin was right: Carlton's list is a shambles. Enjoy that cake.

The logic holds up.

Carlton currently have abysmal list.

They have not suffered for long enough to get a priority pick.

 

[Crankyhawk]

Yes we should get a priority pick. So should Brisbane. Any club that gets 4 wins or less should get a priority pick. The old system was working fine. People bitched about tanking but most of it was nonsense. The reality was that the competition was more even, the eight and the top four changed every year, and clubs weren't left to rot on the bottom for a decade before their supporters saw the light. The current situation sucks.

Afl need to accept tanking will happen and manipulation of the ladder is a logical action. Will it upset the betting agencies? Probably. But if that means they stop offering betting markets that's a positive.

 

[pinot]

We should apply for priority pick to speed up our re build.

But we need to improve the numbers on injury list more. Since 2012 we have had 10-15 starting 22 players on the injury list by round 10.

Freo take 11 starting 22 players out and they get thumped.

I don't think Hawthorn will be able to cope with 10-15 starting 22 players out injured.

 

[pinot]

Judd, Carrazzo (injury prone) Warnock (injury prone), Henderson(gets a lot of soft tissue injuries that keeps him out for 3-4week stretches) leaving will improve our injury list.

 

[Crankyhawk]

We had a PP in 2002 (stripped), 2003 (Walker, 1st pick stripped), 2005 (Murphy/Kennedy), 2006 (Hampson second round), and 2007 (Kreuzer/#3 traded for Judd).

Not arbitarily decided PPs. They all qualified under the system at the time. 3 first round PPs and 1 second round.

So technically we got Walker, Murphy, Hampson and Kreuzer as PPs but given we would have recruited Murph and Kreuzer without the PP, it was really Walker, Kennedy, Hampson and #3.

Would you have got kruezser? Tigers would've had pick 1, I don't remember if they had a pressing ruck need though.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Would you have got kruezser? Tigers would've had pick 1, I don't remember if they had a pressing ruck need though.

Tigers seemed to be into Cotchin, so much so that West Coast wanted #1 for the Judd trade because they would have taken Cotchin with #1 and trumped Richmond.

 

[Hollow Knight]

You lost 1 player (who you replaced, on a higher salary than other non-finals teams could match) in an era where your competitors lost players due to the cap.

We lose a former number one draft pick who was sixth in the Brownlow that year. Him leaving freed up the cap space to replace him.

It's as simple as that. Regardless of you trying to obscure it.

 

[okeydoke7]

We should apply for priority pick to speed up our re build.

But we need to improve the numbers on injury list more. Since 2012 we have had 10-15 starting 22 players on the injury list by round 10.

Freo take 11 starting 22 players out and they get thumped.

I don't think Hawthorn will be able to cope with 10-15 starting 22 players out injured.

You're right, the Hawks probably wouldn't cope with those injuries. Combining that worry with the Hawks' old list, the AFL really should get on the front foot and give the Hawks a priority pick to ensure they don't spend too long rebuilding when the time comes.

Seriously this is an absolute joke by Carlton. Disgusting. Won a final a couple of years back. Some poor list management decisions (with former blues players combining for more goals than Carlton kicked for 2015) and some bad injuries (your midfield was hit hard) combined with a noticeable lack of effort at times led to a very poor 2015 for a club the AFL would like to be doing well.

Priority pick? Please. I barrack for a club that have won 11.5 games of the last 66. Consider the fact that 1 of those wins was against Freo's WAFL side a few years back and this years noticeable improvement was helped by the easiest fixture we have had in years, we have been considerably poor. We have actually taken measures that ensure we fast track our own rebuild. We traded out/let players go for FAIR value (dal, BJ, Mcevoy) not a ridiculous free agency pick like Frawley's. But we have done this without selling the farm (Melbourne style) and still rely heavily on older players such as Riewoldt, Montagna, Dempster, Fisher etc. So the rebuild is far from over as these players continue to get towards the end.

But I don't want a handout, nor think m y club deserves a handout. It just shits me when other clubs approach the AFL with their hands out waiting for a little gift after 1 or 2 bad years. Get real.

 

[Bostonian]

Love supporting an honest club.

You must be a gen Y kid.

Some nasty skeletons in your clubs closet.

 

[windyhill]

Absolute gold from the blues, very bloody funny.

 

[Off The Couch]

That they even had the audacity to ask - embarassing. Brisbane was told no so you would expect the blues to be told the same.

 

[Chief]

That they even had the audacity to ask - embarassing. Brisbane was told no so you would expect the blues to be told the same.

Pretty much a summary of the "against" crowd on this thread.

 

[Off The Couch]

Pretty much a summary of the "against" crowd on this thread.

Would you prefer I have said no due to

A Poor football department;
Poor development of the already number 1 draft picks you've had - 2005, 2006, 2007
Poor trading - hello daisy
Let Eddie go because you didn't think he was worth hanging on to;
The ongoing sense of entitlement from those at Carlton - Ratts had them coming along nicely - just not quickly enough

You had a coach who said that you were in a good position - couldn't see where you were going to lose a game

It makes you no different from Brisbane - in fact you would say that you are in a far better position than them - most would rather go to the blues in Victoria than leave the state to go to Brisbane.

Okeydokey7 summed it up beautifully - Hawks, Geelong, Richmond, pies, North and even the saints and dogs have done it the hard way and yet here are Carlton with the bowl out again - spare me

 

[Doro]

Would you prefer I have said no due to

A Poor football department;
Poor development of the already number 1 draft picks you've had - 2005, 2006, 2007
Poor trading - hello daisy
Let Eddie go because you didn't think he was worth hanging on to;
The ongoing sense of entitlement from those at Carlton - Ratts had them coming along nicely - just not quickly enough

You had a coach who said that you were in a good position - couldn't see where you were going to lose a game

It makes you no different from Brisbane - in fact you would say that you are in a far better position than them - most would rather go to the blues in Victoria than leave the state to go to Brisbane.

Okeydokey7 summed it up beautifully - Hawks, Geelong, Richmond, pies, North and even the saints and dogs have done it the hard way and yet here are Carlton with the bowl out again - spare me

Spare me the arrogant sermon. The club are making changes to address the mistakes of the past. The request was made as a result of the Brisbane Schache posturing. We are well aware it will not amount to much. Back to your pulpit.

 

[Chief]

Off The Couch

And another summary of 20 pages of teeth-gnashers.

Carlton are playing the game the AFL set up. If others did not need to play that way when they were in a similar spot, that was just the state of affairs at the time. I can guarantee you that if any club has a shot at a priority pick or other advantage they take that shot.

 

[pinot]

You're right, the Hawks probably wouldn't cope with those injuries. Combining that worry with the Hawks' old list, the AFL really should get on the front foot and give the Hawks a priority pick to ensure they don't spend too long rebuilding when the time comes.

Seriously this is an absolute joke by Carlton. Disgusting. Won a final a couple of years back. Some poor list management decisions (with former blues players combining for more goals than Carlton kicked for 2015) and some bad injuries (your midfield was hit hard) combined with a noticeable lack of effort at times led to a very poor 2015 for a club the AFL would like to be doing well.

Priority pick? Please. I barrack for a club that have won 11.5 games of the last 66. Consider the fact that 1 of those wins was against Freo's WAFL side a few years back and this years noticeable improvement was helped by the easiest fixture we have had in years, we have been considerably poor. We have actually taken measures that ensure we fast track our own rebuild. We traded out/let players go for FAIR value (dal, BJ, Mcevoy) not a ridiculous free agency pick like Frawley's. But we have done this without selling the farm (Melbourne style) and still rely heavily on older players such as Riewoldt, Montagna, Dempster, Fisher etc. So the rebuild is far from over as these players continue to get towards the end.

But I don't want a handout, nor think m y club deserves a handout. It just shits me when other clubs approach the AFL with their hands out waiting for a little gift after 1 or 2 bad years. Get real.

Wow on the pedestal you go. The club should explore all options to rebuild faster.

I am happy with the structure the Blues have in place now. Bolton as Head Coach, Silvagni as dedicated list manager, elite training facilities.. very good coaches.

The list is terrible - and albeit asking for priority pick seems a little tongue in check and mostly political as a member I want the rebuild to be as fast as possible. Simple as that.

BTW your club is going around in circles not winning any flags.

 

[Blue Heart]

You're right, the Hawks probably wouldn't cope with those injuries. Combining that worry with the Hawks' old list, the AFL really should get on the front foot and give the Hawks a priority pick to ensure they don't spend too long rebuilding when the time comes.

Seriously this is an absolute joke by Carlton. Disgusting. Won a final a couple of years back. Some poor list management decisions (with former blues players combining for more goals than Carlton kicked for 2015) and some bad injuries (your midfield was hit hard) combined with a noticeable lack of effort at times led to a very poor 2015 for a club the AFL would like to be doing well.

Priority pick? Please. I barrack for a club that have won 11.5 games of the last 66. Consider the fact that 1 of those wins was against Freo's WAFL side a few years back and this years noticeable improvement was helped by the easiest fixture we have had in years, we have been considerably poor. We have actually taken measures that ensure we fast track our own rebuild. We traded out/let players go for FAIR value (dal, BJ, Mcevoy) not a ridiculous free agency pick like Frawley's. But we have done this without selling the farm (Melbourne style) and still rely heavily on older players such as Riewoldt, Montagna, Dempster, Fisher etc. So the rebuild is far from over as these players continue to get towards the end.

But I don't want a handout, nor think m y club deserves a handout. It just shits me when other clubs approach the AFL with their hands out waiting for a little gift after 1 or 2 bad years. Get real.

Interestingly enough you are criticising other clubs for looking for a PP handout and while I don't think Brissy or Carlton will get a PP or even deserve one for that matter, your post is a bit rich really. Obviously you must be only 13 years old or maybe even younger ... otherwise you wouldn't have forgotten the significance that when the Saints were down and out in the 1990's, the club was more than happy to accept the PP help that came their way courtesy of the AFL ... and if you remember, your club recruited one of your all time greats in Rooy with that PP, way back in the 2000.

You all of people should see how the Rooy PP pick benefited and helped resurrect your club long term and without his presence, I doubt very much whether the Saints would have played in any of those 2009-10 GF's and ultimately been one of the power clubs of the 2000's.

The great irony for me is that he is still going round some 15 years later and continues to be one of your best players, and yet you criticise other clubs for asking for the same thing that your club was gifted and used to ultimately recruit one of the greatest players in your club's history.

Your hypocrisy is astounding !!!

 

[okeydoke7]

Interestingly enough you are criticising other clubs for looking for a PP handout and while I don't think Brissy or Carlton will get a PP or even deserve one for that matter, your post is a bit rich really. Obviously you must be only 13 years old or maybe even younger ... otherwise you wouldn't have forgotten the significance that when the Saints were down and out in the 1990's, the club was more than happy to accept the PP help that came their way courtesy of the AFL ... and if you remember, your club recruited one of your all time greats in Rooy with that PP, way back in the 2000.

You all of people should see how the Rooy PP pick benefited and helped resurrect your club long term and without his presence, I doubt very much whether the Saints would have played in any of those 2009-10 GF's and ultimately been one of the power clubs of the 2000's.

The great irony for me is that he is still going round some 15 years later and continues to be one of your best players, and yet you criticise other clubs for asking for the same thing that your club was gifted and used to ultimately recruit one of the greatest players in your club's history.

Your hypocrisy is astounding !!!

Ok mate you're either 13 or unable to understand that the PP enabled us to recruit Kosi, not Rooey.

The PP has enabled many clubs to rebuild quicker. It was also blatantly abused by clubs such as Melbourne and Carlton. It began to encourage teams to lose and that became the mentality, unfortunately.

The times have changed and the rules have changed with the times. We won 5 games in 2013 (one of them against the WAFL Fremantle) and 5 games in 2014 so we're in that PP sort of territory, but we accept that the PP is a thing of the past except in EXTREME circumstances now. I know carlton take a while to adjust to changes in the rules (you know the main one im talking about, and your reference to the 1990s should remind you).

A club that won a final two years ago, had some injuries, got rid of some good players and had one shocker year does not warrant a PP. And that's not hypocrisy, because my club has been worse than yours for the last 3 years and I don't want one either.