CARLTON SALARY CAP

[WalshistheGOAT]

I actually think Carlton will be planning to let McKay go next year. He’s pretty useless at ground level, provides no forward pressure, and very rarely kicks the goals that really matter. Whilst I realise McGovern only has one year left, i just can’t see how paying everyone including McKay is possible…conservative estimates for the 2024-25 years when all these players are under contract:

Cripps: $800k
Williams: $750k
Curnow: $750k
Saad : $650k
Cerra: $700k
Hewett: $450k
Weitering: $700k
Walsh: $800k

So that’s ballpark $5.5m on 8 x players. Then you need to pay Docherty, McKay and DeKoning.

By end of 2023 DeKoning won’t be less than $500k/season, and potentially a lot more if he develops again. Docherty will require $500k+. And McKay will be offered $800k + elsewhere.

So even if you said the low end, it’s another $1.8m for those 3. So $7.3m for 11 players in 2024 and 2025.

For this reason I think someone will be squeezed out and I reckon it will be McKay. I wouldn’t even be surprised if they pulled the trigger this year as they’d get a draft bonanza rather than a compo pick of let’s call it pick-12 next season.



Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

So 7 mil roughly for our top 11 players if we are to believe those figures - Leaves 33 spots available at an average of roughly 200k per player.

Lets have a look through said 33 -

Alex Mirkov - Peanuts
Brodie Kemp - Peanuts
Caleb Marchbank - Peanuts (Injured permanently)
Corey Durdin - Would be on peanuts
David Cuningham - Peanuts (Injured permanently)
Domanic Akuei - Peanuts
Ed Curnow - Peanuts
Jack Carroll - Peanuts
Jack Martin - Had all his pay front loaded, now on peanuts
Jack Newnes - Delisted
Jack Silvagni - Would be on a bit, maybe 2-300k?
Jesse Motlop - Peanuts
Josh Honey - Peanuts
Jordon Boyd - Peanuts
Lachlan Fogarty - OOC will be on peanuts or Delisted
Lewis Young - Same as Silvagni, maybe 2-300k?
Liam Stocker - Delisted
Lochie Obrien - Rookied, will be on peanuts
Luke Parks - Delisted
Mark Pittonet - 2-300k
Matt Cottrell - Peanuts
Matt Kennedy - Would be on 3-400k, been very good but signed a contract this year so no threat of going up.
Matt Owies - Peanuts
Mitch Mcgovern - wont get much after his hyper inflated contract due to expire this season
Nic Newman - 3-400k?
Oscar Mcdonald - Delisted
Paddy Dow - Peanuts
Sam Durdin - Peanuts
Sam Philp - Peanuts
Tom Williamson - Delisted
Will Hayes - Delisted
Will Setterfield - 2-300k?
Zac Fisher - 3-400k?

I'm not seeing much cap pressure coming from within in that group

At the moment we only look like bringing in Acres and Mcasey in the off season which Acres is rumoured to be about 350k, basically an exact replacement for Newnes. Mcasey will be on peanuts. Then we head to the draft and replace some of the older spuds who would have been on 2-300k and bring in youngsters on their base 1-150k contracts.

Only chance of alarm would be Carroll, Motlop, Young, Boyd or Dow coming back looking like A graders over the pre season and garnering huge rival offers - in that case we would just move on a Newman or Williams id think.

 

[loki04]

Chief i need my salt shaker!!

And I need my Disagree button back.

 

[Fadge]

So 7 mil roughly for our top 11 players if we are to believe those figures - Leaves 33 spots available at an average of roughly 200k per player.

33 spots averaging $200K each is:
A) Why Carlton are currently a fair way off premiership contention, and
B) Why Carlton will be unable to build a list to contend for the premiership by:
i) paying any improving players who are currently on their list market value;
ii) bringing required players into the club via trade/free agency.

 

[Jeremias]

Even when his team (though I remain unconvinced given how little he actually posts about them( is doing well, the poor bloke can't help himself. Serious issues at play here!

But of course he's not a troll. Just ask him.

#obsessed

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

33 spots averaging $200K each is:
A) Why Carlton are currently a fair way off premiership contention, and
B) Why Carlton will be unable to build a list to contend for the premiership by:
i) paying any improving players who are currently on their list market value;
ii) bringing required players into the club via trade/free agency.

While I do agree with you that our role players and bottom 6 is an issue we're currently hamstrung by Fadge I'd like to know...

What alternative is there? Get rid of essential players to free up space for lesser lights who won't have anywhere near the impact?

GWS faced a similar issue but it didn't stop them from making a grand final with a heap of injuries every year and multiple prelims/semi finals.

We will need to find more role players no doubt but I'd be curious as to which of our 22 you actually believe need to be replaced and if you think it would cost a packet to find some decent role players in their spots?


Mcgovern Weitering Williams
Saad Young Docherty
Walsh Cripps Obrien
Durdin Mckay Fisher
Motlop Curnow Martin
Pittonet Cerra Hewett

Dekoning Kennedy Boyd Cottrell

To me our real weaknesses lay in 7 players -
Cottrell
Boyd
Motlop
Fisher
Durdin
Martin.
Obrien

Pittonet is bordering on a weakness when you look on the stat sheet, but when he plays our mids generally play well so whatever he does seems to work

Basically our transition players for moving the ball forward. (Which imo is why our system and game style was as simple and poor as it was this season)

Its been reported we're practically a shoe in to get Acres from Freo, who would immediately replace Obrien. Only costing 350k from what's been reported. So I'll cross one of our issues off that list with Obrien as Acres is a significant upgrade on a wing.

Motlop, Durdin and Boyd I'm very happy with and all look like the makings of quality players. All tackle hard, apply defensive pressure and run both ways. But they are still speculative for the time being as all 3 are very young and finding consistency in their output.



So what do we need? ... And who do other top teams have in the same places?

Mid/forward who hits the scoreboard regularly --- Bailey, Cameron, Bolton, Rioli, Cumberland, Mccarthy, Papley, Heeney, Hayward, Pickett, Fritsch, Ginnivan, Elliot, Stengle, Rohan, Schultz, Switkowski --- How many of these players would actually be on much coin? Heeney, Bolton and Papley? The rest would be pretty mid or bottom tier of the pay brackets. I think Motlop has shown every sign that he'll end up a high quality goal kicker up forward so I'm not as worried about this spot as I was 12 months ago.

Wingers who have good foot skills and can get back in defence and actually impact --- Clark, Acres, Smith, Sidebottom, Daicos, Duncan, Florent, Stephens, Gulden, Langdon, Hunt, Rivers, Mccluggage, Robinson, Mcintosh, Ross --- Again, only really a few in Sidebottom, Duncan, Langdon and Mccluggage on decent coin. The rest are all low cost and aren't notoriously difficult types to find via the draft.

Half forward who helps transition the ball effectively forward --- Zorko, Ah Chee, Robertson, Baker, Gulden, Florent, Spargo, Neal Bullen, Sparrow, Close, Holmes, McCreery, Lipinski, Vandermeer, Mclean, Treloar, Frederick, Odriscoll, Switkowski, Schultz --- Zorko, Treloar and I can't even think of a 3rd who would be on more than a bottom end contract?

So really our needs aren't in positions which will cost us a lot in terms of contracts or trades, goal kicking forwards and mids obviously the higher the output the higher the cost but there's still plenty of players who hit the scoreboard frequently without breaking the bank of their respective clubs.

If we go to the draft the next few years and target the odd cheap role player I don't see any reason why we can't find the players we need to fix up our transition roles in the team. We can target specific players for specific roles rather than being in the position of trying to find the A grade talents you need to build the nucleus around.

End of the day imo we've filled the roles that cost u a packet at the trade table or in the draft, so I don't buy into the belief that it will hamper our ability to replace the players who are currently holding us back.

 

[Rich01]

So 7 mil roughly for our top 11 players if we are to believe those figures - Leaves 33 spots available at an average of roughly 200k per player.

Lets have a look through said 33 -

Alex Mirkov - Peanuts
Brodie Kemp - Peanuts
Caleb Marchbank - Peanuts (Injured permanently)
Corey Durdin - Would be on peanuts
David Cuningham - Peanuts (Injured permanently)
Domanic Akuei - Peanuts
Ed Curnow - Peanuts
Jack Carroll - Peanuts
Jack Martin - Had all his pay front loaded, now on peanuts
Jack Newnes - Delisted
Jack Silvagni - Would be on a bit, maybe 2-300k?
Jesse Motlop - Peanuts
Josh Honey - Peanuts
Jordon Boyd - Peanuts
Lachlan Fogarty - OOC will be on peanuts or Delisted
Lewis Young - Same as Silvagni, maybe 2-300k?
Liam Stocker - Delisted
Lochie Obrien - Rookied, will be on peanuts
Luke Parks - Delisted
Mark Pittonet - 2-300k
Matt Cottrell - Peanuts
Matt Kennedy - Would be on 3-400k, been very good but signed a contract this year so no threat of going up.
Matt Owies - Peanuts
Mitch Mcgovern - wont get much after his hyper inflated contract due to expire this season
Nic Newman - 3-400k?
Oscar Mcdonald - Delisted
Paddy Dow - Peanuts
Sam Durdin - Peanuts
Sam Philp - Peanuts
Tom Williamson - Delisted
Will Hayes - Delisted
Will Setterfield - 2-300k?
Zac Fisher - 3-400k?

I'm not seeing much cap pressure coming from .

Didn’t realise your bottom tier was so lengthy. Not a lot in that group that will impact the team in the near future.

Some big calls to be made on the majority of these players over the next two off seasons. Could be 20-25 that won’t be there after that time.

Alex Mirkov - ?
Brodie Kemp - Questionable.
Caleb Marchbank - Too injury prone.
Corey Durdin - ok
David Cuningham - Probably delisted.
Domanic Akuei - ?
Ed Curnow - Delisted.
Jack Carroll - Questionable.
Jack Martin - Questionable best 22.
Jack Newnes - Delisted
Jack Silvagni - Questionable best 22.
Jesse Motlop - Ok
Josh Honey - ?
Jordon Boyd - Delisted?
Lachlan Fogarty - Probably delisted.
Lewis Young - ok
Liam Stocker - Delisted
Lochie Obrien - Borderline keep on list.
Luke Parks - Delisted
Mark Pittonet - Best 22
Matt Cottrell - Shouldnt be best 22.
Matt Kennedy - Best 22
Matt Owies - ok
Mitch Mcgovern - ok
Nic Newman - not best 22
Oscar Mcdonald - Delisted
Paddy Dow - Should leave.
Sam Durdin - ?
Sam Philp - Borderline keep on list.
Tom Williamson - Delisted
Will Hayes - Delisted
Will Setterfield - not best 22
Zac Fisher - Questionable best 22.

 

[Fadge]

Didn’t realise your bottom tier was so lengthy. Not a lot in that group that will impact the team in the near future.

Some big calls to be made on the majority of these players over the next two off seasons. Could be 20-25 that won’t be there after that time.

Alex Mirkov - ?
Brodie Kemp - Questionable.
Caleb Marchbank - Too injury prone.
Corey Durdin - ok
David Cuningham - Probably delisted.
Domanic Akuei - ?
Ed Curnow - Delisted.
Jack Carroll - Questionable.
Jack Martin - Questionable best 22.
Jack Newnes - Delisted
Jack Silvagni - Questionable best 22.
Jesse Motlop - Ok
Josh Honey - ?
Jordon Boyd - Delisted?
Lachlan Fogarty - Probably delisted.
Lewis Young - ok
Liam Stocker - Delisted
Lochie Obrien - Borderline keep on list.
Luke Parks - Delisted
Mark Pittonet - Best 22
Matt Cottrell - Shouldnt be best 22.
Matt Kennedy - Best 22
Matt Owies - ok
Mitch Mcgovern - ok
Nic Newman - not best 22
Oscar Mcdonald - Delisted
Paddy Dow - Should leave.
Sam Durdin - ?
Sam Philp - Borderline keep on list.
Tom Williamson - Delisted
Will Hayes - Delisted
Will Setterfield - not best 22
Zac Fisher - Questionable best 22.

In cricket parlance, it's a long tail...

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Didn’t realise your bottom tier was so lengthy. Not a lot in that group that will impact the team in the near future.

Some big calls to be made on the majority of these players over the next two off seasons. Could be 20-25 that won’t be there after that time.

Alex Mirkov - ?
Brodie Kemp - Questionable.
Caleb Marchbank - Too injury prone.
Corey Durdin - ok
David Cuningham - Probably delisted.
Domanic Akuei - ?
Ed Curnow - Delisted.
Jack Carroll - Questionable.
Jack Martin - Questionable best 22.
Jack Newnes - Delisted
Jack Silvagni - Questionable best 22.
Jesse Motlop - Ok
Josh Honey - ?
Jordon Boyd - Delisted?
Lachlan Fogarty - Probably delisted.
Lewis Young - ok
Liam Stocker - Delisted
Lochie Obrien - Borderline keep on list.
Luke Parks - Delisted
Mark Pittonet - Best 22
Matt Cottrell - Shouldnt be best 22.
Matt Kennedy - Best 22
Matt Owies - ok
Mitch Mcgovern - ok
Nic Newman - not best 22
Oscar Mcdonald - Delisted
Paddy Dow - Should leave.
Sam Durdin - ?
Sam Philp - Borderline keep on list.
Tom Williamson - Delisted
Will Hayes - Delisted
Will Setterfield - not best 22
Zac Fisher - Questionable best 22.

Yep a lot of question marks on a lot of players which is where we fall away from the top 8 teams. The hopefuls from that group are Mirkov, Motlop, Kemp,
C Durdin, Carroll, Honey and Boyd.

Setterfield, Dow, Silvagni, Newman and Fisher really should be just mature bodies at best who can come in and play a role to a decent standard

The rest - Curnow, Martin, Fogarty, Cottrell, Owies, imo are a cut below the grain and need to be flat out replaced. Too inconsistent and too limited as footballers.


Imo we need cap space for 1-2 more quality role players along those lines and if we manage our list well we should be able to bring them in over the next couple of years as we finally move on blokes like Plowman, Fogarty, Owies, Curnow etc. They have no improvement left in them and we'd likely get better output from young draftees who will come in on lesser contracts and have greater upside.

 

[Robertio]

Didn’t realise your bottom tier was so lengthy. Not a lot in that group that will impact the team in the near future.

Some big calls to be made on the majority of these players over the next two off seasons. Could be 20-25 that won’t be there after that time.

Alex Mirkov - ?
Brodie Kemp - Questionable.
Caleb Marchbank - Too injury prone.
Corey Durdin - ok
David Cuningham - Probably delisted.
Domanic Akuei - ?
Ed Curnow - Delisted.
Jack Carroll - Questionable.
Jack Martin - Questionable best 22.
Jack Newnes - Delisted
Jack Silvagni - Questionable best 22.
Jesse Motlop - Ok
Josh Honey - ?
Jordon Boyd - Delisted?
Lachlan Fogarty - Probably delisted.
Lewis Young - ok
Liam Stocker - Delisted
Lochie Obrien - Borderline keep on list.
Luke Parks - Delisted
Mark Pittonet - Best 22
Matt Cottrell - Shouldnt be best 22.
Matt Kennedy - Best 22
Matt Owies - ok
Mitch Mcgovern - ok
Nic Newman - not best 22
Oscar Mcdonald - Delisted
Paddy Dow - Should leave.
Sam Durdin - ?
Sam Philp - Borderline keep on list.
Tom Williamson - Delisted
Will Hayes - Delisted
Will Setterfield - not best 22
Zac Fisher - Questionable best 22.

You have about eight best 22 there even though we beat Freo, Sydney, Richmond and Bulldogs. We missed the eight by one point in the last 30 seconds of the season. you are another one that we heard nothing from most of the season, keep it real mate or don't bother.

 

[Rich01]

You have about eight best 22 there even though we beat Freo, Sydney, Richmond and Bulldogs. We missed the eight by one point in the last 30 seconds of the season. you are another one that we heard nothing from most of the season, keep it real mate or don't bother.

Who are those eight best 22 you are referring to?

Of the list of 33 mind you.

 

[Robertio]

Who are those eight best 22 you are referring to?

Of the list of 33 mind you.

Who are those eight best 22 you are referring to?

Of the list of 33 mind you.

I said you had about eight best 22 players on your list, by your account we should've been fighting North Melbourne for the no1 pick.

 

[Rich01]

I said you had about eight best 22 players on your list, by your account we should've been fighting North Melbourne for the no1 pick.

That wasn’t my original list of 33.
But who were the eight you have called out?

 

[Robertio]

That wasn’t my original list of 33.
But who were the eight you have called out?

I haven't called out any mate

That wasn’t my original list of 33.
But who were the eight you have called out?

I stopped reading when i saw Boyd delisted and if one more opposition nuff has a question mark on Silvagni I'll puke up.

 

[Rich01]

I haven't called out any mate

I stopped reading when i saw Boyd delisted and if one more opposition nuff has a question mark on Silvagni I'll puke up.

Guys like Silvagni probably shouldn’t be in a premiership contenders best 22.
But he is at Carlton.

Which highlights the state of your list and the improvements that need to be made.

 

[Robertio]

Guys like Silvagni probably shouldn’t be in a premiership contenders best 22.
But he is at Carlton.

Which highlights the state of your list and the improvements that need to be made.

That's rubbish, they'll make improvements and Silvagni will be there and will play finals football.

 

[Rich01]

Yep a lot of question marks on a lot of players which is where we fall away from the top 8 teams. The hopefuls from that group are Mirkov, Motlop, Kemp,
C Durdin, Carroll, Honey and Boyd.

Setterfield, Dow, Silvagni, Newman and Fisher really should be just mature bodies at best who can come in and play a role to a decent standard

The rest - Curnow, Martin, Fogarty, Cottrell, Owies, imo are a cut below the grain and need to be flat out replaced. Too inconsistent and too limited as footballers.


Imo we need cap space for 1-2 more quality role players along those lines and if we manage our list well we should be able to bring them in over the next couple of years as we finally move on blokes like Plowman, Fogarty, Owies, Curnow etc. They have no improvement left in them and we'd likely get better output from young draftees who will come in on lesser contracts and have greater upside.

That’s a fair assessment.

It seems like Voss is keen to start cutting away at some of the list that just won’t help them get to premiership contenders. There’s a lot there to work through. Some will make it, but the majority on that list shouldn’t be there by end of 2023 trade period.

 

[RAPPA]

In cricket parlance, it's a long tail...

Who needs a top and middle order when your tail can bowl out the opposition for 100-150

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

That’s a fair assessment.

It seems like Voss is keen to start cutting away at some of the list that just won’t help them get to premiership contenders. There’s a lot there to work through. Some will make it, but the majority on that list shouldn’t be there by end of 2023 trade period.

Agreed, biggest thing for us is replacing the inside mids and half backs who aren't up to it and bringing in outside run and carry. Players like Fogarty, Williamson, Stocker, Hayes, Curnow etc are no chance of breaking into the side as they have far too many quality players ahead of them. Players of similar ability who are specialist wings or half forwards would be far more beneficial to us as they'd only be competing with Obrien and Cottrell etc rather than trying to break in over Saad and Docherty or the 5 starting midfielders we have.

I see Voss and the list management team are seemingly already addressing this with the off season moves so far, but I expect another year of turnover next year with plenty of fresh faces coming in via the draft and maybe the odd trade for a specialist role player if they become available.

 

[Aphrodite]

Carlton have a salary cap

 

[Soapy V]

That's rubbish, they'll make improvements and Silvagni will be there and will play finals football.

If Silvagni isn't in the side we must be doing bloody well

 

[Soapy V]

Didn’t realise your bottom tier was so lengthy. Not a lot in that group that will impact the team in the near future.

Some big calls to be made on the majority of these players over the next two off seasons. Could be 20-25 that won’t be there after that time.

My take:

Alex Mirkov - Massive upside and talent but 2-3 years away
Brodie Kemp - Just needs to get fitter and stay on park
Caleb Marchbank - Probably traded
Corey Durdin - Young and has ability
David Cuningham - Probably delisted.
Domanic Akuei - Cat B. Who cares
Ed Curnow - Delisted. Been a great servant
Jack Carroll - Injured. Real talent. Best 22 in 2023
Jack Martin - Best 22 easily when fit
Jack Newnes - Delisted
Jack Silvagni - Heart and Soul. Best 22
Jesse Motlop - Will be a gun
Josh Honey - ?
Jordon Boyd - Best 22 running defender. Great pick up
Lachlan Fogarty - Probably delisted.
Lewis Young - Stood up as a defender and raw. Will get better and better
Liam Stocker - Delisted
Lochie Obrien - 2 year deal. Took big steps this year
Luke Parks - Delisted
Mark Pittonet - Best 22
Matt Cottrell - Shouldnt be best 22.
Matt Kennedy - Best 22
Matt Owies - ok
Mitch Mcgovern - Best 22 defender
Nic Newman - Underrated. Best 22
Oscar Mcdonald - Delisted
Paddy Dow - Proper coach and improved. Will stay
Sam Durdin - Very good pick up
Sam Philp - Borderline keep on list.
Tom Williamson - Delisted
Will Hayes - Delisted
Will Setterfield - Pure midfielder. Fighting with others for spot. Very good player
Zac Fisher - Best 22 all year in tough spot. Will get better as side gets better

 

[gungho]

I’ve said this before but seems to draw the ire of some testy Carlton supporters like arrow and la dispute. (They don’t mind giving it the other way mind you).
Carlton need to focus less on trading and more on drafting.
If they are under salary cap pressure it’s because of the Martin, McGovern, Williamson kind of trades. (They are now looking at another c grade plodder in acres).
Just do the hard work and build your team from the draft rather than the instant gratification of a trade.

 

[BigPond101]

Silvagni is the only Carlton player that always tries the problem is too many spuds around him. All the premiership teams carry a few guys who aren't that good you want them to be people like Silvagni who at least give 100 %

 

[Rich01]

My take:

Thanks Soap.
You are a bit more objective than others, but I know we all rate our own players higher than what they should and there’s always an optimism particularly with the younger players.

Of the 33 it looks like you have 12 off the list, 8 best 22 currently and the other 13 to be determined.

I disagree that guys like Fisher, SOS and Martin are best 22 when you guys should be contending for a flag, but that is your view. They are probably best 22 now, but those positions need upgrading to be a contending side.

And I’m probably a little less optimistic on the 13 that you have to be determined. Guys like Motlop I think will be pretty good. Guys like Setterfield and Dow probably need to be cut loose. Let Carrol step up to take a spot in the midfield if one of the starting mids are injured. Kemp is also starting to track down the Stocker path in his career. They need to find him a position and play him there.

 

[Soapy V]

Thanks Soap.
You are a bit more objective than others, but I know we all rate our own players higher than what they should and there’s always an optimism particularly with the younger players.

Of the 33 it looks like you have 12 off the list, 8 best 22 currently and the other 13 to be determined.

I disagree that guys like Fisher, SOS and Martin are best 22 when you guys should be contending for a flag, but that is your view. They are probably best 22 now, but those positions need upgrading to be a contending side.

And I’m probably a little less optimistic on the 13 that you have to be determined. Guys like Motlop I think will be pretty good. Guys like Setterfield and Dow probably need to be cut loose. Let Carrol step up to take a spot in the midfield if one of the starting mids are injured. Kemp is also starting to track down the Stocker path in his career. They need to find him a position and play him there.

It's not just the players. Although this year has been spent "retraining" many players who suffered badly under the Teague regime. Development was shocking. Put us back 2-3 years

We played some really good football but missed finals by .6% with the worst injury list in the AFL.

Voss also changed a lot of things and got back to basics for our game plan. Pre season will now be expanding on it and fixing other issues like connection and controlling speed of game

I haven't seen the club this positive and happy in decades. Players have bought in.

If we can have an injury free run I expect Top 4 in 2023 and I haven't thought that in decades