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AFLW 2024 - Round 9 - Indigenous Round - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
CEY: training camp ripped the heart out of Adelaide Crows
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FR0GGY
From a cartel villa in Tuscany
Surely you don’t believe things that affect mentally happen instantly?
Damn him
Don't know why you did that instead of just jumping straight into AFL ladder search after round X:
AFL Ladder 2018 Round 9 - FinalSiren.com
AFL football statistics on AFL teams, games and players.
finalsiren.com
FR0GGY
From a cartel villa in Tuscany
What do you know it says 5/3 why not pick after 10 rounds?
I didn’t speak to that at all. What I spoke to is that we Australians have no such right. You need to realise that we don’t have any form of right to free speech. You’re the law talking guy, how about you point me to the Act and relevant clause to support your argument.
The implication was that the Camp messed up the players. This was the main emphasis of the report. If we're talking traumatic effects, then we would have to see immediate effects which often results in a decline of general output/performance. I deliberately mentioned 9 rounds, which means it's a 2 month period. A messed up team (psychologically) would be showing some sort of ill-effects during a 2 month time frame. But there was none apart from the obvious injuries.
Think back to the 2015 tragedy. Our first game after the incident I think it was against the Eagles and we absolutely got smashed with the results looking ugly by the end. This was understandable though, and that was a clear example of a team derailed mentally by a prior trauma. Can you see how 2015 after the tragedy we were looking average for a short while (mentally affected), and a stark difference to the early period of 2018 immediately after the Camp?
FR0GGY
From a cartel villa in Tuscany
I think you tried to say Sanders linked ridiculously different situations a week ago.
Well you’ve just done that.
No two situations are the same nor will it affect everyone in the same way or timeframe.
No one is saying it’s the sole reason but if you can’t see that the camp stank and clearly had an effect on the players then there’s no point having this conversation.
Ah well let’s just say there was no such thing as a camp
I'm not saying that it didn't have an effect, just the effect was minimal. You can believe what you want to believe. I'm more referencing the objective evidence from a timeline perspective. We need to observe the after-effects to have a clue in whether the reports are believable or otherwise. The media isn't necessarily always your friend, so it's a good idea to have a fair level of skepticism.
Don't look up Freedom of Speech but look up our Right to Freedom of opinion and expression, yes there are limits but it there.
Right to freedom of opinion and expression
The following guidance is designed to assist Commonwealth public officials involved in developing legislation, policy or programs. They have not been prepared for the purposes of informing administrative decision-making.
We are also a signatory of the United Nations International Covenant on Civil Rights and Political Rights
International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights
Entry into force: 23 March 1976, in accordance with Article 49 Preamble The States Parties to the present Covenant, Considering that, in accordance with the principles proclaimed in the Charter of the United Nations, recognition of the inherent dignity and of the equal and inalienable rights of...
Drugs Are Bad Mackay?
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- May 24, 2006
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Mod notice
I'm revoking people's Freedom to Speak about civil rights in Australia, war history, clauses and acts in this thread.
Can we please steer conversation back to the subject at hand - wooden phalluses, dancing naked in the woods and other bizarre rituals.
I'm revoking people's Freedom to Speak about civil rights in Australia, war history, clauses and acts in this thread.
Can we please steer conversation back to the subject at hand - wooden phalluses, dancing naked in the woods and other bizarre rituals.
- Jul 19, 2019
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Does anyone reckon we will ever get a full account of exactly what happened there?
Drugs Are Bad Mackay?
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- May 24, 2006
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I get the impression that the players are too embarrassed to say so it will always remain shrouded in mystery
FR0GGY
From a cartel villa in Tuscany
Watch open mike in 10 years
Samcro24
Free the Cartel Colonel
- Oct 28, 2014
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There will be an expose sometime right when we are threatening a flag again. Years away but that will happen.
- Aug 9, 2019
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Reckon Mike would just be happy to still be with us in 10 year's time, don't think he'll be worrying about some camp...
- Jul 19, 2019
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That's what I was thinking
It will be in Grand Final Week, most probably on a Wednesday. Front Page of the Herald Sun. If you are playing a VFL club, it is pretty much guaranteed
Not necessarily. There is no requirement for trauma based symptoms to manifest immediately - for instance people with PTSD can have a delayed onset (now termed "delayed expression" in the DSM-5) of symptoms which is the specifier used when the diagnostic criteria is not met until at least 6 months after the traumatic event, and clinically it may be many years. With that in mind, the selection of 2 months as the time period isn't particularly relevant so the positive start we had in 2018 is not enough to exclude the possibility that the camp was heavily traumatic and damaging for the players involved.
If anything, the dramatic drop in performances after the bye round in 2019 seems more significant especially based on alleged discussion at the time that changes previously agreed to by senior management were going to be reneged on. One hypothesis is that this kind of event could have been collectively perceived as a betrayal of trust, possibly acting as a trigger resulting in re-traumatisation of the players, resulting in the subsequent decline in effort and overall performance. I think this would fit if we are to believe that the camp included betrayals of personal information disclosed in confidence to coaches and inappropriate aspects of the Mankind Project.
FR0GGY
From a cartel villa in Tuscany
It was a joke, but you don’t think he’d be interested in interviewing someone like Betts with the career he’s had.
Also Mike loves the controversial stuff, just look at the guests he’s had on.
- Oct 8, 2012
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Given the players association has never been involved im starting to think the camp is a nothing story. just a bunch of narsistic millionaires who didnt like being told a few home truths about their woeful GF petformance.
Did he actually say these words “training camp ripped the heart out of Adelaide Crows”?
What did he say in specifics that suggested it was a “horrific traumatising event”?
- Oct 8, 2012
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So if it was as bad as they say it was shouldnt they be putting in a formal complaint witb the apla now they are no longer at the club?
You got to be careful when you argue this “delayed traumatic effect”. Because if you simply focus this argument in isolation, then you are giving the media or any negative trolling rumours a free reign to throw at the club any rubbish they feel free to. For example, I can come up with a few false rumours myself:
- Sloane and Tex were fighting over who was the better leader and they decided to end the debate with naked mud wrestling, as suggested by the camp organisers. The players weren’t happy with such childish acts by so-called “leaders”, although some were watching with eagerness to see who would win the mud wrestling. This caused a division in the playing group and caused severe anxiety to some of those who had a fear against mud.
So then we wait to see of any ill-effects from my rumour:
- the Crows start with 2-7: ah hah! So the camp rumour was true!
- the Crows start as per usual average, and then 2-3 months later, start to have a bad run of losses (which happens in most other seasons by the way): ah hah! So the camp rumour was true and there was a latent/delayed psychological trauma happening!
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Then you also need to take into account the actual probability of a traumatic event and the immediate effects vs the delayed effects. From my experience and understanding, immediate effects are much more likely than a delayed effect. In other words reactive depression/anxiety is much more likely than depression/anxiety from a prior traumatic incident (PTSD). Think of all your experience with people who suddenly lose their jobs, major MVA, house fire, domestic abuse - most would be negatively affected immediately after the incident and usually takes 1-3 months to get over it. The delayed negative effect would be a very small percentage.
Also, if you want to get technical, a “traumatic event” isn’t up to the non-qualified such as the likes of McNure or Caro to report. It can only be up to the individual and their GP/psychologist/psychiatrist. By the mere fact that they were talking up rumours to suggest players were mentally fried, and no qualified persons to back their claims to confirm “trauma”, it really is more a non-ethical approach in using exaggerated words and not caring about its implications.
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