Traded Chad Wingard [traded with future 3rd to Hawthorn for Burton, #15, #35 and future 4th]

[Hard Ball Get]

To me, it is clear. Check what forum you are on dude.

And, I do find it compelling not long after publicly saying he didn't want to leave, his management is meeting with clubs.

People can take stock in any information they want to reach their conclusion.

This place would be very quiet indeed if we all just waited around to here from clubs and players. Indeed, there would barely be any media if this was the case.

For me, and probably many, I come on here to share my opinion. I don't know Wingard or anyone at Port Adelaide.

I am more then happy for people to have a different opinion, and to advocate that. However, simply potting someone without actually having a view yourself is weak.

Indeed, if a persons view is simply 'you don't know', 'it's not clear', then I question what value you are adding to any conversation.

You're getting overly defensive over a few challenges to your opinion. I havent potted anyone, I've simply said that I don't think anyhing is clear. If that's a pot in your view, then I shudder to think how you react to many other posts here.

If you're here to only put forward your views and not listen to the views of others, that being it is not clear he is being pushed out, then I question what value you're adding to the conversation.

Your OPINION is valid. Your OPINION is that he wants to stay and he is being pushed out. The difference is in the language. If you say it is clear that, that is what is happening, then you're purporting it as fact.

My opinion is that it is not clear that he is being pushed out.

He could be being pushed out.
He could be posting he wants to stay to make it look like he's being pushed out.
He could prefer to stay but be open to a trade.
He could want to leave.
He could be desperate to leave and posting on Twitter to appease and look the victim.
He could be indifferent and meeting clubs as a just in case.
He might be meeting clubs as a way of keeping his options open.
He might be doing a Mitch Wallis and leaning toward staying but wanting to dip the toe in to just see what's out there.

There are many other things that COULD be happening.

So again, if you're reading his Twitter posts and then seeing reports that he's meeting clubs as clear evidence that he's being asked to leave the club. I think you're being very simple minded. It's speculative - that is my point, and the point of the previous poster who said it wasn't clear.

Feel free to have whatever opinion you want, but don't present it as fact.

 

[OnceKicked50]

You're getting overly defensive over a few challenges to your opinion. I havent potted anyone, I've simply said that I don't think anyhing is clear. If that's a pot in your view, then I shudder to think how you react to many other posts here.

If you're here to only put forward your views and not listen to the views of others, that being it is not clear he is being pushed out, then I question what value you're adding to the conversation.

Your OPINION is valid. Your OPINION is that he wants to stay and he is being pushed out. The difference is in the language. If you say it is clear that, that is what is happening, then you're purporting it as fact.

My opinion is that it is not clear that he is being pushed out.

He could be being pushed out.
He could be posting he wants to stay to make it look like he's being pushed out.
He could prefer to stay but be open to a trade.
He could want to leave.
He could be desperate to leave and posting on Twitter to appease and look the victim.
He could be indifferent and meeting clubs as a just in case.
He might be meeting clubs as a way of keeping his options open.
He might be doing a Mitch Wallis and leaning toward staying but wanting to dip the toe in to just see what's out there.

There are many other things that COULD be happening.

So again, if you're reading his Twitter posts and then seeing reports that he's meeting clubs as clear evidence that he's being asked to leave the club. I think you're being very simple minded. It's speculative - that is my point, and the point of the previous poster who said it wasn't clear.

Feel free to have whatever opinion you want, but don't present it as fact.

You are saying a lot for saying nothing at all. You may as well just said, 'I don't know, it could be anything'.

To me it is clear. Do I know Wingard or do I have any ties to Port? No.

Do I need to ensure my post, such a using the word clear, comes with a rider 'don't take it as fact', no.

To me it is clear:

clear
klɪə/
adjective

1. 1.
   easy to perceive, understand, or interpret.

Do I need to elaborate on the meaning of clear as an interpretation, or perception, as opposed to reporting as fact?

 

[Hard Ball Get]

You are saying a lot for saying nothing at all. You may as well just said, 'I don't know, it could be anything'.

To me it is clear. Do I know Wingard or do I have any ties to Port? No.

Do I need to ensure my post, such a using the word clear, comes with a rider 'don't take it as fact', no.

To me it is clear.

You said "It is clear Port have told him to explore his options, how could you say otherwise?"

A posting contradiction it seems.

 

[OnceKicked50]

You said "It is clear Port have told him to explore his options, how could you say otherwise?"

A posting contradiction it seems.

clear
klɪə/
adjective

1. 1.
   easy to perceive, understand, or interpret.

Not fact. Interpretation. My interpretation.

Is this clear enough?

For you it is not clear. And that's fair.

However, like the other old mate, to suggest I am reporting anything as fact is not correct.

 

[Vindicater]

The whole message out of Port is weird at the moment in regards to Wingard.

Seems like they want him gone but realise his potential demands a high price so are trying to seem like they want to keep him.

Is there something going on with Chard behind the scenes? Buyer beware maybe like us with Stringer?

 

[rainwizard39]

The whole message out of Port is weird at the moment in regards to Wingard.

Seems like they want him gone but realise his potential demands a high price so are trying to seem like they want to keep him.

Is there something going on with Chard behind the scenes? Buyer beware maybe like us with Stringer?

Could be anything. When we wanted Hartlett and Lobbe gone we came out and said it, even 2 years ago when we anounced a whole stack of players on the table. I think it is what it is, Port are open to moving him this year because we value this draft so high. Where if he wants out next year it's a draft we don't care as much and get 1 pick when we could of got more for him in the previous year.

 

[Flags_In_The_Bag]

I wouldn't trade Bailey Williams for Chad Wingard

I know, just found it funny some Port people are saying our first plus William's is not good as they dont need him

 

[beta_condition]

Could be anything. When we wanted Hartlett and Lobbe gone we came out and said it, even 2 years ago when we anounced a whole stack of players on the table. I think it is what it is, Port are open to moving him this year because we value this draft so high. Where if he wants out next year it's a draft we don't care as much and get 1 pick when we could of got more for him in the previous year.

Surely you would back yourself in to keep him given his stance pre-draft, maybe it's a bit of a Mitchell 2011 about it, Port tabled Wingard to give him the kick up the ass to reach his potential but he reacted negatively to the news and now wants out.

 

[drcollossimo]

The whole message out of Port is weird at the moment in regards to Wingard.

Seems like they want him gone but realise his potential demands a high price so are trying to seem like they want to keep him.

Is there something going on with Chard behind the scenes? Buyer beware maybe like us with Stringer?

Nah our clubs driving itself into the ground at a rate of knots currently..

Scarily we could actually genuinely be undecided on if we want to keep him which is why the narrative is so weird, Port couldn’t organise a **** in a brothel atm

 

[Bemoreboyddog]

Port will look at where they finished this year. Realise they could slip down a few places. So you’d think they wouldn’t take any less than our pick 7. Otherwise they’d get the same rough value next year if he leaves as a free agent.

So any club that wants him will need to pony up a top 10 pick and maybe some steak knives or potentially a player Port really like but it’s not often we see deals of that nature happen.

 

[Bearded Clam]

Port will look at where they finished this year. Realise they could slip down a few places. So you’d think they wouldn’t take any less than our pick 7. Otherwise they’d get the same rough value next year if he leaves as a free agent.

So any club that wants him will need to pony up a top 10 pick and maybe some steak knives or potentially a player Port really like but it’s not often we see deals of that nature happen.

Id say port will want a hell of a lot more than “a top 10 pick and maybe some steak knives”.

You wouldnt think hed be going for anything less that two first round picks.. and one of them being a top 10.

 

[Bemoreboyddog]

Id say port will want a hell of a lot more than “a top 10 pick and maybe some steak knives”.

You wouldnt think hed be going for anything less that two first round picks.. and one of them being a top 10.

I’ve got no doubt Port would want that. I highly doubt Port will get that.

 

[Leather Poisoning]

Id say port will want a hell of a lot more than “a top 10 pick and maybe some steak knives”.

You wouldnt think hed be going for anything less that two first round picks.. and one of them being a top 10.

Can't be bothered looking up exact details for this, but from memory the 2x first draft pick mids in recent years are:
- Adam Treloar
- Paddy Dangerfield
- Bryce Gibbs (I know it wasn't 2x first, but it was more than just a first)
- Jaegar O'Meara
- Dayne Beams (again, not 2x 1st, but more than a 1st)


Whereas one-first-round draft pick mids have been:
- Tom Mitchell
- Dion Prestia
- Gary Ablett
- Jack Redden
- Chris Yarran

Second round draft pick mids
- Devon Smith
- Tom Bell
- Matt Rosa
- James Aish
- Jon O'Rourke
- Allen Christensen
- Bernie Vince
- Elliot Yeo

This isn't a perfect list and a lot of those guys included trades with picks around 18-24 which are kinda borderline first or second. But the point I'm slowly getting to is that Wingard (and Shiel as well I reckon) belong in that second group, not the first one with Danger, Treloar, Beams and O'Meara

 

[GUMBLETRON]

Can't be bothered looking up exact details for this, but from memory the 2x first draft pick mids in recent years are:
- Adam Treloar
- Paddy Dangerfield
- Bryce Gibbs (I know it wasn't 2x first, but it was more than just a first)
- Jaegar O'Meara
- Dayne Beams (again, not 2x 1st, but more than a 1st)


Whereas one-first-round draft pick mids have been:
- Tom Mitchell
- Dion Prestia
- Gary Ablett
- Jack Redden
- Chris Yarran

Second round draft pick mids
- Devon Smith
- Tom Bell
- Matt Rosa
- James Aish
- Jon O'Rourke
- Allen Christensen
- Bernie Vince
- Elliot Yeo

This isn't a perfect list and a lot of those guys included trades with picks around 18-24 which are kinda borderline first or second. But the point I'm slowly getting to is that Wingard (and Shiel as well I reckon) belong in that second group, not the first one with Danger, Treloar, Beams and O'Meara

Both are comfortably in the first group. Not Treloar-style 2x top ten, but both are AA players in their prime, where the second group are players devalued by age, injury or being hated by their coach.

 

[philthy05]

Can't be bothered looking up exact details for this, but from memory the 2x first draft pick mids in recent years are:
- Adam Treloar
- Paddy Dangerfield
- Bryce Gibbs (I know it wasn't 2x first, but it was more than just a first)
- Jaegar O'Meara
- Dayne Beams (again, not 2x 1st, but more than a 1st)


Whereas one-first-round draft pick mids have been:
- Tom Mitchell
- Dion Prestia
- Gary Ablett
- Jack Redden
- Chris Yarran

Second round draft pick mids
- Devon Smith
- Tom Bell
- Matt Rosa
- James Aish
- Jon O'Rourke
- Allen Christensen
- Bernie Vince
- Elliot Yeo

This isn't a perfect list and a lot of those guys included trades with picks around 18-24 which are kinda borderline first or second. But the point I'm slowly getting to is that Wingard (and Shiel as well I reckon) belong in that second group, not the first one with Danger, Treloar, Beams and O'Meara

What?

danger was a free agent.

Gibbs was what 29?

What has O’Meara done to make him worth more than Wingard at the time he was traded?

Mitchell was pushed out by Sydney’s salary cap and stacked midfield

Ablett that was traded last year is not remotely worth as much as Wingard

Prestia was out of contract as most of your list are.

Redden and yarran? Lol.

This is a bizarre list and reads more like an argument for why Chad is worth 2 first rounders.

How many on those lists were 2 time all Australians 25 yrs old heading into their prime and contracted.

 

[Leather Poisoning]

Both are comfortably in the first group. Not Treloar-style 2x top ten, but both are AA players in their prime, where the second group are players devalued by age, injury or being hated by their coach.

Yeah I think this is the point of disagreement. I think more than a first rounder should be for the very upper echelon of the game's midfielders, and I don't think Wingard has done enough for long enough to warrant this kind of price.
Shiel is way back in the pecking order at GWS. Hard to demand a lot for a midfielder when you have four or five guys ahead of him (thinking Kelly, Ward, Coniglio and if you want to include Whitfield. I'm probably forgetting someone as well). It's pretty similar to the Tom Mitchell

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I'm coming around to THE CHAD.

 

[Leather Poisoning]

What?

danger was a free agent.

Gibbs was what 29?

What has O’Meara done to make him worth more than Wingard at the time he was traded?

Mitchell was pushed out by Sydney’s salary cap and stacked midfield

Ablett that was traded last year is not remotely worth as much as Wingard

Prestia was out of contract as most of your list are.

Redden and yarran? Lol.

This is a bizarre list and reads more like an argument for why Chad is worth 2 first rounders.

How many on those lists were 2 time all Australians 25 yrs old heading into their prime and contracted.

Take a breath mate - don't take things so seriously.
Every trade has a lot of context around it, including contracted/uncontracted, free agency, age, go-home factor, etc.
I'm just trying to get a sense of this. Has been a while since Wingard was All Australian.

Like I said, every trade has a lot of context. 2x first round trades are actually quite rare and I'm not sure Wingard is that rare of a player. Don't get me wrong, I want him at Hawthorn, but 2x first rounders is TOP dollar.

 

[Leather Poisoning]

I'm coming around to THE CHAD.

I'm sold - get him in, get the deal done.
Seems a weird cat and we need a few more of them at the hawks.

 

[philthy05]

Take a breath mate - don't take things so seriously.
Every trade has a lot of context around it, including contracted/uncontracted, free agency, age, go-home factor, etc.
I'm just trying to get a sense of this. Has been a while since Wingard was All Australian.

Like I said, every trade has a lot of context. 2x first round trades are actually quite rare and I'm not sure Wingard is that rare of a player. Don't get me wrong, I want him at Hawthorn, but 2x first rounders is TOP dollar.

Your list says otherwise though

 

[Leather Poisoning]

Your list says otherwise though

Why would he be leaving your club, out of interest? I'm not really clear on that. Media doing a bit of double speak.

 

[lozstar]

Port would be silly to trade him unless they get a top3 pick

 

[Leather Poisoning]

Port would be silly to trade him unless they get a top3 pick

How good is this guy? Seems to be growing in stature with every post.

 

[philthy05]

Why would he be leaving your club, out of interest? I'm not really clear on that. Media doing a bit of double speak.

As far as we can tell teams are showing a lot of interest and Port are testing whether he wants to stay long term or if he is going to leave in free agency.


I think from now on teams are going to do this with all free agents who haven't yet extended their contracts. Teams are just not gonna accept getting pick 19 for players like gaff and Franklin etc.

 

[Bearded Clam]

Port would be silly to trade him unless they get a top3 pick

Hard to see the suns not holding onto 2 and 3 lynch compo.. carlton wont be giving up 1...

So a top 3 pick will be unlikely