Unofficial Preview Changes & discussion Qualifying Final 2023 v Port @ The Gabba

[dlanod]

Anyone interested in doing a preview for our first final please PM me.

Edit: thanks mpal6 ! If anyone else is still interested I'll also take expressions of interest for our second final, whoever and whenever that might be.

 

[Section 5]

We have had some bad luck in the last 2 years final games with players injured early.
Hopefully things change this year.

2022
QF v Tigers: Oscar 3% TOG Sub Ah Chee
SF v Demons: Sub Mathieson not used. Oscar still not available
PF v Cats: Rayner 42% TOG Sub Mathieson

2021
QF v Demons: McStay 8% TOG Sub Mathieson
SF v Dogs: Payne 28% then Berry 31% TOG Sub Lester. McStay still not available

 

[BRAB]

I just played a game of AFL 23 and Gunston kicked 11 goals.

How do you refute this 3KZ is Football

 

[Grasshopper17]

We have had some bad luck in the last 2 years final games with players injured early.
Hopefully things change this year.

2022
QF v Tigers: Oscar 3% TOG Sub Ah Chee
SF v Demons: Sub Mathieson not used. Oscar still not available
PF v Cats: Rayner 42% TOG Sub Mathieson

2021
QF v Demons: McStay 8% TOG Sub Mathieson
SF v Dogs: Payne 28% then Berry 31% TOG Sub Lester. McStay still not available

We need to be clear on the Payne one however... that was not luck... that was caused by McCarthy flying for a mark that was never his.

Thank goodness we have finally learnt from this and have seen a lot less of multiple players flying for the same mark this season. Murray Davis influence

 

[Nunez]

I just played a game of AFL 23 and Gunston kicked 11 goals.

How do you refute this 3KZ is Football

Nobody plays AFL 23 anymore BRAB...

 

[Elixuh]

I just played a game of AFL 23 and Gunston kicked 11 goals.

How do you refute this 3KZ is Football

Check mate 3KZ is Football

 

[3KZ is Football]

Check mate 3KZ is Football

You got me guys.

Quick question, did you have the game set to:
Gunston plays the Under 11’s?
My son plays that one and it is amazing how often Gunston is caught in run down tackles.

#GunstonCompulsiveDisorder

 

[Grasshopper17]

You got me guys.

Quick question, did you have the game set to:
Gunston plays the Under 11’s?
My son plays that one and it is amazing how often Gunston is caught in run down tackles.

#G#GunstonCompulsiveDisorder

Hey at least he's getting the ball

 

[BRAB]

You got me guys.

Quick question, did you have the game set to:
Gunston plays the Under 11’s?
My son plays that one and it is amazing how often Gunston is caught in run down tackles.

#GunstonCompulsiveDisorder

The last time you mentioned the under 11’s this board tore you apart. Do you really want to go down that path again?

 

[3KZ is Football]

I just played a game of AFL 23 and Gunston kicked 11 goals.

How do you refute this 3KZ is Football

#ItsScientific

I was playing a game of Test Match and the player I dubbed David Warner made consecutive double centuries. There is no way the ACB doesn’t offer him a 3 year deal on that form.

 

[3KZ is Football]

The last time you mentioned the under 11’s this board tore you apart. Do you really want to go down that path again?

Bring it. My son plays the AFL game on his PlayStation and he keeps wanting to play me, but I am all thumbs with that sort of thing and I figure you have to devote more hours than I’ve got to get good at it.
You must be able to play against the machine, because sometimes he will be playing Collingwood and we will be 57 goals and Collingwood will be 2 points. I think he finds it comforting.

 

[Elixuh]

BRAB like in the avengers film I need you to play afl23 as much as humanly possible between now and grand final weekend to understand all of our pathways to premiership glory.

My guess is there is only one. With gunners.

 

[Grasshopper17]

I agree, he is “regarded” as invaluable by Nunez and Fagan, but he really isn’t. This is evident when we look at how the forward line functions without him. Additionally, most of this group have played finals for the last four, soon to be five years. There is plenty of big game experience in the lineup, so the idea that Gunston’s presence would somehow serve the team well from a team leadership perspective is diminished.

I really do believe that Gunston can’t be selected, coming off an injury lay-off and having been in indifferent form for most, if not all of the year. If we are to win the Premiership this year, there is no room for sentimentality and we can’t afford to self-sabotage at the selection table.

It's an interesting argument, and I know Jivlain will compare the experience of both teams next week. But in the meantime I thought it might be worth comparing our current team to the 2001 team that played in the Qualifying Final against Port Adelaide, with regards to finals experience:

Criteria	2001 Qualifying Final team	2022 Elimination Final team	2023 Qualifying Final team*
Finals played	10	6	9
Finals wins	5	1	3
Preliminary Finals	2	1	2
Played top 4 team	6	4	6
Played Preliminary Finalist	7	6	7
Played Grand Finalist	5	6	7
Played eventual Premier	3	3	4
Average Finals per player	5.9 (130 across 22 players)	5.3 (121 across 23 players)	7.1 (171 across 24* players)
Players to play in all Finals	5 - Marcus Ashcroft, Shaun Hart, Nigel Lappin, Justin Leppitsch, Darryl White	10 - Harris Andrews, Zac Bailey, Jarrod Berry, Charlie Cameron, Daniel Rich, Linc McCarthy, Hugh McCluggage, Oscar McInerney, Lachie Neale, Dayne Zorko	8 - Harris Andrews, Zac Bailey, Jarrod Berry, Charlie Cameron, Linc McCarthy*, Hugh McCluggage, Lachie Neale, Dayne Zorko
Most experienced Finals players	14 - Martin Pike, next 5 players on 10 as above	13 - Charlie Cameron, Lachie Neale 10 - Mitch Robinson 9 - Linc McCarthy 8 - Daniel Rich	16 - Charlie Cameron, Lachie Neale 12 - Linc McCarthy 11 - Josh Dunkley 9 - Jarryd Lyons* (3 with Adelaide)
Players making AFL Finals debut	2 - Robbie Copeland, Mal Michael	1 - Darcy Wilmot	2 - Jaspa Fletcher, Kai Lohmann*
Players with AFL Grand Final experience	1 - Martin Pike	1 - Lachie Neale	2 - Josh Dunkley & Lachie Neale
Players with AFL Premiership experience	1 - Martin Pike	0	1 - Josh Dunkley​

*I've included all of Lohmann, Lyons and McCarthy in this, so 24 players for now.

The comparison is now very close. The core of the 2001 group had played in one more final, spread out over 5 finals series (1995, 1996, 1997, 1999 and 2000) over a 6 year period, compared to our current group who has played 9 over a 4 year period. But the fact our current group has been more consistent means more of them have played in every final. It also means that on average, they are all more experienced in finals than the 2001 team.

The other thing that stands out is the win-loss record of both teams, which can be at least partly attributed to sheer density of quality teams the current group has played. I put this down mainly to the change to the finals system between the late 90s and now. In the late 90s, the top 4 teams played 5-8 teams in the Qualifying Finals, and then if they won that, as our team did in 1996 and 1999, they earned another home final, against a team who had lost the previous week. Under the current system, the top 4 teams play each other in the first week of finals.

Both our 1996 and 1999 teams finished 3rd, while North Melbourne finished 2nd. It would be an interesting revisioning of history to see how those teams would have rebounded after playing in a Qualifying Final against North, rather than a Preliminary Final, if under the current system.

 

[3KZ is Football]

It's an interesting argument, and I know Jivlain will compare the experience of both teams next week. But in the meantime I thought it might be worth comparing our current team to the 2001 team that played in the Qualifying Final against Port Adelaide, with regards to finals experience:

Criteria	2001 Qualifying Final team	2022 Elimination Final team	2023 Qualifying Final team*
Finals played	10	6	9
Finals wins	5	1	3
Preliminary Finals	2	1	2
Played top 4 team	6	4	6
Played Preliminary Finalist	7	6	7
Played Grand Finalist	5	6	7
Played eventual Premier	3	3	4
Average Finals per player	5.9 (130 across 22 players)	5.3 (121 across 23 players)	7.1 (171 across 24 players)
Players to play in all Finals	5 - Marcus Ashcroft, Shaun Hart, Nigel Lappin, Justin Leppitsch, Darryl White	10 - Harris Andrews, Zac Bailey, Jarrod Berry, Charlie Cameron, Daniel Rich, Linc McCarthy, Hugh McCluggage, Oscar McInerney, Lachie Neale, Dayne Zorko	8 - Harris Andrews, Zac Bailey, Jarrod Berry, Charlie Cameron, Linc McCarthy*, Hugh McCluggage, Lachie Neale, Dayne Zorko
Most experienced Finals players	14 - Martin Pike, next 5 players on 10 as above	13 - Charlie Cameron, Lachie Neale 10 - Mitch Robinson 9 - Linc McCarthy 8 - Daniel Rich	16 - Charlie Cameron, Lachie Neale 12 - Linc McCarthy 11 - Josh Dunkley 9 - Jarryd Lyons* (3 with Adelaide)
Players making AFL Finals debut	2 - Robbie Copeland, Mal Michael	1 - Darcy Wilmot	2 - Jaspa Fletcher, Kai Lohmann*
Players with AFL Grand Final experience	1 - Martin Pike	1 - Lachie Neale	2 - Josh Dunkley & Lachie Neale
Players with AFL Premiership experience	1 - Martin Pike	0	1 - Josh Dunkley​

*I've included all of Lohmann, Lyons and McCarthy in this, so 24 players for now.

The comparison is now very close. The core of the 2001 group had played in one more final, spread out over 5 finals series (1995, 1996, 1997, 1999 and 2000) over a 6 year period, compared to our current group who has played 9 over a 4 year period. But the fact our current group has been more consistent means more of them have played in every final. It also means that on average, they are all more experienced in finals than the 2001 team.

The other thing that stands out is the win-loss record of both teams, which can be at least partly attributed to sheer density of quality teams the current group has played. I put this down mainly to the change to the finals system between the late 90s and now. In the late 90s, the top 4 teams played 5-8 teams in the Qualifying Finals, and then if they won that, as our team did in 1996 and 1999, they earned another home final, against a team who had lost the previous week. Under the current system, the top 4 teams play each other in the first week of finals.

Both our 1996 and 1999 teams finished 3rd, while North Melbourne finished 2nd. It would be an interesting revisioning of history to see how those teams would have rebounded after playing in a Qualifying Final against North, rather than a Preliminary Final, if under the current system.

Great work! Thanks for putting that effort in. We would have been better in 1999 too if that ANIMAL Mick Martyn hadn’t whacked Simon Black. Total dog act from a bloke whose karmic punishment is that he has to carry that head of his on his shoulders for the rest of his days.



This is an outstanding interview. The Mick Martyn “assault” discussion starts at 18.20 elapsed.

 

[Scubaveg]

Poor Dev

Who said Dev goes out?


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[3KZ is Football]

It's an interesting argument, and I know Jivlain will compare the experience of both teams next week. But in the meantime I thought it might be worth comparing our current team to the 2001 team that played in the Qualifying Final against Port Adelaide, with regards to finals experience:

Criteria	2001 Qualifying Final team	2022 Elimination Final team	2023 Qualifying Final team*
Finals played	10	6	9
Finals wins	5	1	3
Preliminary Finals	2	1	2
Played top 4 team	6	4	6
Played Preliminary Finalist	7	6	7
Played Grand Finalist	5	6	7
Played eventual Premier	3	3	4
Average Finals per player	5.9 (130 across 22 players)	5.3 (121 across 23 players)	7.1 (171 across 24* players)
Players to play in all Finals	5 - Marcus Ashcroft, Shaun Hart, Nigel Lappin, Justin Leppitsch, Darryl White	10 - Harris Andrews, Zac Bailey, Jarrod Berry, Charlie Cameron, Daniel Rich, Linc McCarthy, Hugh McCluggage, Oscar McInerney, Lachie Neale, Dayne Zorko	8 - Harris Andrews, Zac Bailey, Jarrod Berry, Charlie Cameron, Linc McCarthy*, Hugh McCluggage, Lachie Neale, Dayne Zorko
Most experienced Finals players	14 - Martin Pike, next 5 players on 10 as above	13 - Charlie Cameron, Lachie Neale 10 - Mitch Robinson 9 - Linc McCarthy 8 - Daniel Rich	16 - Charlie Cameron, Lachie Neale 12 - Linc McCarthy 11 - Josh Dunkley 9 - Jarryd Lyons* (3 with Adelaide)
Players making AFL Finals debut	2 - Robbie Copeland, Mal Michael	1 - Darcy Wilmot	2 - Jaspa Fletcher, Kai Lohmann*
Players with AFL Grand Final experience	1 - Martin Pike	1 - Lachie Neale	2 - Josh Dunkley & Lachie Neale
Players with AFL Premiership experience	1 - Martin Pike	0	1 - Josh Dunkley​

*I've included all of Lohmann, Lyons and McCarthy in this, so 24 players for now.

The comparison is now very close. The core of the 2001 group had played in one more final, spread out over 5 finals series (1995, 1996, 1997, 1999 and 2000) over a 6 year period, compared to our current group who has played 9 over a 4 year period. But the fact our current group has been more consistent means more of them have played in every final. It also means that on average, they are all more experienced in finals than the 2001 team.

The other thing that stands out is the win-loss record of both teams, which can be at least partly attributed to sheer density of quality teams the current group has played. I put this down mainly to the change to the finals system between the late 90s and now. In the late 90s, the top 4 teams played 5-8 teams in the Qualifying Finals, and then if they won that, as our team did in 1996 and 1999, they earned another home final, against a team who had lost the previous week. Under the current system, the top 4 teams play each other in the first week of finals.

Both our 1996 and 1999 teams finished 3rd, while North Melbourne finished 2nd. It would be an interesting revisioning of history to see how those teams would have rebounded after playing in a Qualifying Final against North, rather than a Preliminary Final, if under the current system.

I love it when a member of our community takes the time and puts in the effort to write a substantial, researched and relevant contribution. It really helps to develop a conversation we can all join in and to elevate the quality of our board.

 

[Elixuh]

It's an interesting argument, and I know Jivlain will compare the experience of both teams next week. But in the meantime I thought it might be worth comparing our current team to the 2001 team that played in the Qualifying Final against Port Adelaide, with regards to finals experience:

Criteria	2001 Qualifying Final team	2022 Elimination Final team	2023 Qualifying Final team*
Finals played	10	6	9
Finals wins	5	1	3
Preliminary Finals	2	1	2
Played top 4 team	6	4	6
Played Preliminary Finalist	7	6	7
Played Grand Finalist	5	6	7
Played eventual Premier	3	3	4
Average Finals per player	5.9 (130 across 22 players)	5.3 (121 across 23 players)	7.1 (171 across 24* players)
Players to play in all Finals	5 - Marcus Ashcroft, Shaun Hart, Nigel Lappin, Justin Leppitsch, Darryl White	10 - Harris Andrews, Zac Bailey, Jarrod Berry, Charlie Cameron, Daniel Rich, Linc McCarthy, Hugh McCluggage, Oscar McInerney, Lachie Neale, Dayne Zorko	8 - Harris Andrews, Zac Bailey, Jarrod Berry, Charlie Cameron, Linc McCarthy*, Hugh McCluggage, Lachie Neale, Dayne Zorko
Most experienced Finals players	14 - Martin Pike, next 5 players on 10 as above	13 - Charlie Cameron, Lachie Neale 10 - Mitch Robinson 9 - Linc McCarthy 8 - Daniel Rich	16 - Charlie Cameron, Lachie Neale 12 - Linc McCarthy 11 - Josh Dunkley 9 - Jarryd Lyons* (3 with Adelaide)
Players making AFL Finals debut	2 - Robbie Copeland, Mal Michael	1 - Darcy Wilmot	2 - Jaspa Fletcher, Kai Lohmann*
Players with AFL Grand Final experience	1 - Martin Pike	1 - Lachie Neale	2 - Josh Dunkley & Lachie Neale
Players with AFL Premiership experience	1 - Martin Pike	0	1 - Josh Dunkley​

*I've included all of Lohmann, Lyons and McCarthy in this, so 24 players for now.

The comparison is now very close. The core of the 2001 group had played in one more final, spread out over 5 finals series (1995, 1996, 1997, 1999 and 2000) over a 6 year period, compared to our current group who has played 9 over a 4 year period. But the fact our current group has been more consistent means more of them have played in every final. It also means that on average, they are all more experienced in finals than the 2001 team.

The other thing that stands out is the win-loss record of both teams, which can be at least partly attributed to sheer density of quality teams the current group has played. I put this down mainly to the change to the finals system between the late 90s and now. In the late 90s, the top 4 teams played 5-8 teams in the Qualifying Finals, and then if they won that, as our team did in 1996 and 1999, they earned another home final, against a team who had lost the previous week. Under the current system, the top 4 teams play each other in the first week of finals.

Both our 1996 and 1999 teams finished 3rd, while North Melbourne finished 2nd. It would be an interesting revisioning of history to see how those teams would have rebounded after playing in a Qualifying Final against North, rather than a Preliminary Final, if under the current system.

This is awesome, thank you

 

[Grasshopper17]

Great work! Thanks for putting that effort in. We would have been better in 1999 too if that ANIMAL Mick Martyn hadn’t whacked Simon Black. Total dog act from a bloke whose karmic punishment is that he has to carry that head of his on his shoulders for the rest of his days.



This is an outstanding interview. The Mick Martyn “assault” discussion starts at 18.20 elapsed.

Two other things I got out of this... "Reflection transforms experience into knowledge"

And the importance of parents or coaches instilling into their kids as early as possible, the importance of being able to kick on the non-preferred. Arguably the pivotal goal of the 2001 Grand Final was set up by Simon Black's right foot. Yet even now so many players (including many on our team) treat their wrong foot like an annoying inconvenience.

 

[Nathan Barley]

Who said Dev goes out?


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Just a guess. Likely him, Fletcher or Ah Chee

 

[lionsrules]

It's an interesting argument, and I know Jivlain will compare the experience of both teams next week. But in the meantime I thought it might be worth comparing our current team to the 2001 team that played in the Qualifying Final against Port Adelaide, with regards to finals experience:

Criteria	2001 Qualifying Final team	2022 Elimination Final team	2023 Qualifying Final team*
Finals played	10	6	9
Finals wins	5	1	3
Preliminary Finals	2	1	2
Played top 4 team	6	4	6
Played Preliminary Finalist	7	6	7
Played Grand Finalist	5	6	7
Played eventual Premier	3	3	4
Average Finals per player	5.9 (130 across 22 players)	5.3 (121 across 23 players)	7.1 (171 across 24* players)
Players to play in all Finals	5 - Marcus Ashcroft, Shaun Hart, Nigel Lappin, Justin Leppitsch, Darryl White	10 - Harris Andrews, Zac Bailey, Jarrod Berry, Charlie Cameron, Daniel Rich, Linc McCarthy, Hugh McCluggage, Oscar McInerney, Lachie Neale, Dayne Zorko	8 - Harris Andrews, Zac Bailey, Jarrod Berry, Charlie Cameron, Linc McCarthy*, Hugh McCluggage, Lachie Neale, Dayne Zorko
Most experienced Finals players	14 - Martin Pike, next 5 players on 10 as above	13 - Charlie Cameron, Lachie Neale 10 - Mitch Robinson 9 - Linc McCarthy 8 - Daniel Rich	16 - Charlie Cameron, Lachie Neale 12 - Linc McCarthy 11 - Josh Dunkley 9 - Jarryd Lyons* (3 with Adelaide)
Players making AFL Finals debut	2 - Robbie Copeland, Mal Michael	1 - Darcy Wilmot	2 - Jaspa Fletcher, Kai Lohmann*
Players with AFL Grand Final experience	1 - Martin Pike	1 - Lachie Neale	2 - Josh Dunkley & Lachie Neale
Players with AFL Premiership experience	1 - Martin Pike	0	1 - Josh Dunkley​

*I've included all of Lohmann, Lyons and McCarthy in this, so 24 players for now.

The comparison is now very close. The core of the 2001 group had played in one more final, spread out over 5 finals series (1995, 1996, 1997, 1999 and 2000) over a 6 year period, compared to our current group who has played 9 over a 4 year period. But the fact our current group has been more consistent means more of them have played in every final. It also means that on average, they are all more experienced in finals than the 2001 team.

The other thing that stands out is the win-loss record of both teams, which can be at least partly attributed to sheer density of quality teams the current group has played. I put this down mainly to the change to the finals system between the late 90s and now. In the late 90s, the top 4 teams played 5-8 teams in the Qualifying Finals, and then if they won that, as our team did in 1996 and 1999, they earned another home final, against a team who had lost the previous week. Under the current system, the top 4 teams play each other in the first week of finals.

Both our 1996 and 1999 teams finished 3rd, while North Melbourne finished 2nd. It would be an interesting revisioning of history to see how those teams would have rebounded after playing in a Qualifying Final against North, rather than a Preliminary Final, if under the current system.

Thank you for taking the time for a very in depth and knowledgeable post. Really appreciate the info and effort gone into this.

 

[3KZ is Football]

Two other things I got out of this... "Reflection transforms experience into knowledge"

And the importance of parents or coaches instilling into their kids as early as possible, the importance of being able to kick on the non-preferred. Arguably the pivotal goal of the 2001 Grand Final was set up by Simon Black's right foot. Yet even now so many players (including many on our team) treat their wrong foot like an annoying inconvenience.

I love it when my son kicks on his non-preferred in general play. When you see kids do it instinctively it is a real sign of their development. What a couple of mine do is kick the banana on the right rather than using the left. There’s a clip on YouTube, Bernie Quinlan 20 great goals and there are so many that are snaps on his non-preferred foot.

 

[Viceregal]

Coaches over time have made gambles on players fitness during finals.
Some pay off a lot do not.

Still not quite over the 'not' in the 2004 GF ...

 

[Section 5]

Still not quite over the 'not' in the 2004 GF ...

The problem with 2004 is 1/4 of the team was in the gamble category.

 

[M Malice]

#ItsScientific

I was playing a game of Test Match and the player I dubbed David Warner made consecutive double centuries. There is no way the ACB doesn’t offer him a 3 year deal on that form.

I played Test Match the board game for countless hours in my youth, my brother and I took is so seriously.

 

[3KZ is Football]

I played Test Match the board game for countless hours in my youth, my brother and I took is so seriously.

So you should! It’s a serious game!
I love old ‘analogue’ games.

 

[dlanod]

I played Test Match the board game for countless hours in my youth, my brother and I took is so seriously.

I always desperately wanted a copy... Never played it in the end.