Unofficial Preview Changes & discussion Round 7 v Dockers.

[Quested]

RE Gunston, had he slotted his 2 lead up marks and kicked another rather than that handball to Joey, suddenly he's kicked 4 for the night and been a great return. Those things didn't happen if course, but you can see there's an opportunity for such to take place. I do think we're better with Fort in the side, but I don't think he or Gunston are likely to carry a game on their shoulders.

RE this match, I hate it when we go in confident - we did it with Port and Dogs and look how they turned out. Just want to see a well crafted win and move on to the next.

 

[Saucery]

Yeah he was ok but there were several examples of him being way too slow to get close to his opponent who setup a shot going the other way

I think if he ends up with a quicker opponent oppositions will start exposing him

This is true but he was often exposed due to a skill error in delivering the ball forward so he was left out of position to begin with.

Maybe that's what Fagan meant when he mentioned failing to honour his leads.

If the ball is kicked short to him there is no way he runs others down, on his head or over it would favour him more.

 

[Saucery]

Joyce has been solid filling that 3rd tall role. Nothing more nothing less.
Teams need these sorts of players, but top 4 teams need to somehow find better options.
Yesterday he was subbed out for the final quarter.
That may indicate he could be replaced next week.
Or a wakeup call that his spot even as Gardiners replacement is in jeopardy. If so, they may give him another shot to improve.
Gardiner did not play in the VFL, and another poster mentioned he has another different type of injury.
Either way Gardiner should not play in the seniors next week.
Lester could fill the role but i feel that is a backward step future wise and he is a bit undersized anyhow.
Gunston could go into defense but i don't really like that move at present. Gunston needs to get used to playing that 3rd KPF "team" role.
Although the Gunston move makes a case for Fort or Fullarton.

In the preseason i thought Fullarton should be trialed as the 3rd tall defender. It was a spot we obviously needed a few options coming into round 1.
He was given a few goes down back and was fine. But switched around to forward & ruck also during this period.
Unlike Rayner who was given every chance to slot into a defense role, playing and training as a defender.
Now Fullarton is mainly a forward in the VFL. Playing well but a wasted (AFL learning in the VFL) defense opportunity in my opinion.

Changes- Most likely they retain the same side. They could place "Managed " against someone.

My only unforced change would be Fullarton/Fort for Joyce.
If Fullarton - He can just play defense. Or the 2nd option (not preferred) Gunston to defense Fullarton forward.
If Fort - He plays forward and Gunston to defense being my 2nd but less preferred option.

While Gunston has the capacity to play back I fear for a defensive set up that includes him and Rich, treacle.

 

[Saucery]

Yeah but they're coming to Gabba though. We'll beat them comfortably.

Must admit I'm most worried about the boys playing in front of a large crowd again after weeks in the boondocks, might spook them.

 

[Saucery]

I don't want to put the mozz on Payne but he's starting to look like a really solid ,assured defender with exceptional physical attributes. Looked and played like Tarzan yesterday . And he has terrific closing speed for a big man.

The point you raise re Joyce is also a very good one imo. He's relatively inexperienced and just trying to find his feet and not muck up. I know some question him but there's got to be a lot of improvement there with more games under his belt. And again his size is an attribute that comes in handy most of the time.

I also think sometimes we kind of rate players on their effect rather than their role, we often get accused of having too many stars and not enough role players.

Maybe Fagan see something gestalt in him, that is his contribution to the back half structure is greater than his own individual stats.

You put the right random pieces into the correct places and you get something greater than their net individual worth.

 

[Viceregal]

While Gunston has the capacity to play back I fear for a defensive set up that includes him and Rich, treacle.

grin - I read that as 'him, rich and treacle' and was wondering which of our defenders had got stuck with the nickname of 'treacle'!!!

Then I read it again and it all made sense

 

[Grasshopper17]

Yep, all on the AFL app.

Edit: he also had double the score involvements than Hipwood.

I also think Hipwood played well. All our KPF did.

I would like to know how they measure pressure acts, is a chase with no chance of catching like Jack Gunston did a couple of times yesterday classed a pressure act?

Thanks for the info Nunez. I did not realise individual "pressure acts" were available on the AFL app.

I must admit I'm starting to think the whole "pressure" stat phenomenon is getting overcooked. I mean even last Saturday we saw that graphic from Sanchez365 about how during the 3rd quarter our pressure rating was down in the 150s, firmly in the "poor" category. The only people saying our pressure was poor were Champion Data.

Then of course we had last year's Grand Final, where the greatest pressure team in the history of the world (apparently) got absolutely obliterated.

So I'm thinking this pressure stat is about to be due for an overhaul. Or maybe it's time for some other fancy and catchy stat to take its place. Which clubs are probably already using... They just haven't told anyone yet.

So, take your point, but I'd like to be able to eyeball these 16 or whatever "pressure acts" Gunston made, line them up with Hipwood's 7, and see which ones were more impactful. Because I'm quite sure not all "pressure acts" are created equal. And I continue to be less and less convinced of their relevance.

 

[Lazza16]

I also think sometimes we kind of rate players on their effect rather than their role, we often get accused of having too many stars and not enough role players.

Maybe Fagan see something gestalt in him, that is his contribution to the back half structure is greater than his own individual stats.

You put the right random pieces into the correct places and you get something greater than their net individual worth.

I don't want to put the mozz on Payne but he's starting to look like a really solid ,assured defender with exceptional physical attributes. Looked and played like Tarzan yesterday . And he has terrific closing speed for a big man.

The point you raise re Joyce is also a very good one imo. He's relatively inexperienced and just trying to find his feet and not muck up. I know some question him but there's got to be a lot of improvement there with more games under his belt. And again his size is an attribute that comes in handy most of the time.

I would of liked to see Payne remonstrate a tad more vigorously after Starce was felled by Toby instead of the gentle pat. Agree Payne is progressing nicely.

 

[tate13]

Unchanged for me.

Dropping Gunston after 5 games for a ruck or a guy we’ve tried a few times (Fullarton) for little success seems like lunacy.

The forward line seems to be firing along nicely - why change it? Gunston has played 5 games - makes much more sense to get the games into him and have the team and he in sync at the back end of the year - much like we did with Hipwood last year.

 

[McIvor]

I have watched a fair bit of the VFL this season and my view is that senior footy has passed Froggy Lester by, he is a smart player but he makes regular clangers and is slowing even more. IMO he should only be called on if we have an injury crisis down back.

If only Harrison Arnold was on the list, it's got me baffled why he is not on an AFL list, looks very good every time I've seen him, must be something I am missing, time is running out for him he is now 24 years old.

As I was reading through this thread, I thought I am going to post that if Arnold was on our proper list, I'd have him in to replace Joyce. Arnold reads the play better I think could make the adjustment to AFL with ease. Anyway Mr Malice, you were the first to say what I was thinking lol.

As for changes, I'd go Prior in for Joyce (Jaxon can play third tall i think and its not like Freo are that tall in there fwd line with Taberner out) / Fort it for someone to combat the 2 Freo rucks (no idea who you'd omit) and perhaps Dev or Nakia as sub to give Lyons a full game.

 

[McIvor]

Lester could fill an AFL role at a pinch but i now just see him playing a leadership role for the younger guys.
I would think 2023 will be his last year as a player for the Lions. Agree he always gave his all and would do so again if recalled.
One thing for sure is you don't get faster as a player as you get older. Injuries, wear and tear of games and training slow almost all players down.
Regarding the 3rd KPD player.
I have come to the conclusion that Fagan preferers a bit more weight over a reasonable height to hold that spot.
Joyce most likely holds his spot, but I would still like to see Fullarton play defense for a few games.
I am just a little concerned someone gets thrown into that role if one of Andrews, Payne or Joyce get suspended or injured.
Below our options in my opinion for that 3rd KPF spot without a left field pick. Unless they go small but i don't think that helps Andrews.

Player	Height cm	Weight kg	Player	Height cm	Weight kg
Adams (guide only)	192	98	Gunston (an option)	193	only 86
Joyce (5 games)	194	95	Lester (last option)	192	only 84
Gardiner (best 22 but injured)	192	91	Fullarton	200	98

I'd like to think if it is Frog's last, we could squeeze him in for one final send off game - has been a great servent of our club primarily through an average period of the club and then helped the club, w/o playing a big part on field at least, in returning the club back to the top 8 and setting the standrds and assisting teammates in us becoming the club we are now and Frog was a big part of that. Perhaps against the Crows at home in rd 22.

 

[M Malice]

Thanks for the info Nunez. I did not realise individual "pressure acts" were available on the AFL app.

I must admit I'm starting to think the whole "pressure" stat phenomenon is getting overcooked. I mean even last Saturday we saw that graphic from Sanchez365 about how during the 3rd quarter our pressure rating was down in the 150s, firmly in the "poor" category. The only people saying our pressure was poor were Champion Data.

Then of course we had last year's Grand Final, where the greatest pressure team in the history of the world (apparently) got absolutely obliterated.

So I'm thinking this pressure stat is about to be due for an overhaul. Or maybe it's time for some other fancy and catchy stat to take its place. Which clubs are probably already using... They just haven't told anyone yet.

So, take your point, but I'd like to be able to eyeball these 16 or whatever "pressure acts" Gunston made, line them up with Hipwood's 7, and see which ones were more impactful. Because I'm quite sure not all "pressure acts" are created equal. And I continue to be less and less convinced of their relevance.

Yes bravo, as I said earlier these sort of stats are subjective, some a lot more so than others ... what is that saying about damn lies and statistics? >

 

[DERRINALPHIL]

That's what we do every week. Oscar never wins the hitouts against recognised rucks

I would say a bigger problem is that he rarely taps to a Brissie player.

 

[DERRINALPHIL]

Thought Hipwood was great yesterday. Worked exceptionally hard. Go back and look at his 4th and 5th efforts in a contest on the wing in the final minutes before half time. Kept the ball from spilling out to the Giants and we got the ball forward for an inside 50 stoppage.

He was absolutely buggered after and I could hardly blame him.

Hipwood played right in front of me for two quarters and I saw little that impressed me but I think I may be expecting too much from him. He has been quiet but has scored 10 goals already but has been terrible in our two losses. He did walk around with his head down a lot, something you won't see on the TV because the TV follows the ball.
I always hoped he would become a dominate forward but that hope is receding. I'm afraid he is only a handy forward

 

[Nunez]

Thanks for the info Nunez. I did not realise individual "pressure acts" were available on the AFL app.

I must admit I'm starting to think the whole "pressure" stat phenomenon is getting overcooked. I mean even last Saturday we saw that graphic from Sanchez365 about how during the 3rd quarter our pressure rating was down in the 150s, firmly in the "poor" category. The only people saying our pressure was poor were Champion Data.

Then of course we had last year's Grand Final, where the greatest pressure team in the history of the world (apparently) got absolutely obliterated.

So I'm thinking this pressure stat is about to be due for an overhaul. Or maybe it's time for some other fancy and catchy stat to take its place. Which clubs are probably already using... They just haven't told anyone yet.

So, take your point, but I'd like to be able to eyeball these 16 or whatever "pressure acts" Gunston made, line them up with Hipwood's 7, and see which ones were more impactful. Because I'm quite sure not all "pressure acts" are created equal. And I continue to be less and less convinced of their relevance.

I think the point was more: Gunston had a good game offensively and clearly put in the effort defensively. Not every player has to be Charlie Cameron levels of chase down pressure, but every player has to play their role in applying pressure. Jack could have been chasing a guy he'll never catch, but that's why he has team mates. He occupies one space so the defender can't just turn around and find a new option.

He, Hipwood and Joe all played their roles and played good footy.

 

[M Malice]

I think the point was more: Gunston had a good game offensively and clearly put in the effort defensively. Not every player has to be Charlie Cameron levels of chase down pressure, but every player has to play their role in applying pressure. Jack could have been chasing a guy he'll never catch, but that's why he has team mates. He occupies one space so the defender can't just turn around and find a new option.

He, Hipwood and Joe all played their roles and played good footy.

16 "pressure acts" implies that Jack is an elite pressure player, he is far from that though and probably never has been.

However if we can start to take advantage of Jack's attacking forward craft and he hits form he is a lock best 22 player no doubt.

 

[Nunez]

16 "pressure acts" implies that Jack is an elite pressure player, he is far from that though and probably never has been.

However if we can start to take advantage of Jack's attacking forward craft and he hits form he is a lock best 22 player no doubt.

It doesn't imply that, it implies he applies pressure. Pressure acts aren't the be all and end all, but they are an indication of effort. Effort is all we can ask of Jack and effort is what he brings.

His leading is elite and even when not honoured, often gives the other guys a better marking contest.

 

[M Malice]

It doesn't imply that, it implies he applies pressure. Pressure acts aren't the be all and end all, but they are an indication of effort. Effort is all we can ask of Jack and effort is what he brings.

His leading is elite and even when not honoured, often gives the other guys a better marking contest.

Disagree, IMO most people me included would think if you have high raw pressure act numbers that it is likely pressure is a strength of your game, that is my subjective opinion.

I agree with the rest of the post.

 

[Nunez]

Disagree, IMO most people me included would think if you have high raw pressure act numbers that it is likely pressure is a strength of your game, that is my subjective opinion.

I agree with the rest of the post.

Haha I get why that is an assumption but it isn't quite true when it comes to the pressure acts definition.

Still more useful than the "team pressure rating" that is vomited by commentators who probably don't even understand how the stat is generated.

 

[Gadzorks]

Kiedan

I think the point was more: Gunston had a good game offensively and clearly put in the effort defensively. Not every player has to be Charlie Cameron levels of chase down pressure, but every player has to play their role in applying pressure. Jack could have been chasing a guy he'll never catch, but that's why he has team mates. He occupies one space so the defender can't just turn around and find a new option.

He, Hipwood and Joe all played their roles and played good footy.

Charlie is blessed with the fastest of fast - fast twitch muscle fibres.

A genuine physical outlier.

I often Charlie watch at live games. His acceleration is insane and his change of direction movement is poetry in motion.

It must feel amazing to move like that.

 

[Scubaveg]

I don’t get the hate for Gunston, watched the replay. He was good.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Nunez]

Kiedan


Charlie is blessed with the fastest of fast - fast twitch muscle fibres.

A genuine physical outlier.

I often Charlie watch at live games. His acceleration is insane and his change of direction movement is poetry in motion.

It must feel amazing to move like that.

The things he does every game are just mind-blowing. One time and yeah, it's a fluke. But every game? One of the greatest small forwards to play the game.

 

[dlanod]

Preview - Round 7, 2023: Brisbane Lions vs. Fremantle Dockers, Saturday 29 April 1:45pm at the Gabba

Round 7 Preview – Saturday 29 April 1.45pm Gabba Brisbane Lions v Fremantle Dockers Injury lists – Basically a full complement for us to choose from, with the exception of Darcy Gardiner who missed the VFL with another injury. For Freo, the question is whether Nat Fyfe will play any football...

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