Preview Changes R13 Bulldogs vs Lions

[cherrypie]

Gallagher looks ok and I’m not against him getting games but attending so many centre bounces…he’s done nothing to earn that.

Just seemed a very odd choice…and one EVERYONE would be screaming at had we lost.

Gallagher had as many centre clearances as Bont and Treloar despite attending fewer centre bounces

 

[JohnnySteel]

I’m going to be seriously impressed if we win this with our Outs and the fact a lot of our players have had to play more game time than usual the last few weeks. Not to mention Brisbane are coming off the bye, well rested.


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[NthBondiDoggies]

I don’t mind Khamis playing forward. Remember Hunter (I think? That was his name) - a very good half back who would go forward when needed and do a job. Khamis can do a job for the team. He leads beautifully and will draw defenders. 2 goals would be a win - especially if he can make a couple of tackles and not allow defenders to waltz away.

If Scott is not ready then Baker is probably deserving or Artie should get a go. His form doesn’t deserve it (though best game in Friday for a while) but he could well take the opportunity and give us something. Clarke was pushing before his debut and the. Dropped his head but is more a like for like for West. But the option is to give the job to Caleb.

Team looks OK even with 9 best 22 out.

FB: Duryea Jones JOD

HB: Friejah Keath Dale

C: Gags Trelor Williams

HF: García JUH Baker/Artie

FF: Khamis Lobb Daniel

R: English Bont Libba

Int Richards Macrae Bramble Sanders

Sub: McNeil

Injured:*best 22

B. Smith*
JJ*
Naughton*
Weightman*
Scott
Coffield *
Harmes*
VDM*
Gardner
O’Driscoll

Suspended:

West*
Darcy *

 

[jaxie1]

I remember watching Alex Rance when he started - he had more turnovers than a Dutch baker. Thought he could never make it at AFL level with his execution and decision making.
Sometimes it is worth persisting if you can see the upside.

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yes. also a great pub you have there Sheikh

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Croft may be skinny as anything but he's been contributing to an extentin the VFL (to be fair in a strong team), has height, and will need to play a first game at some stage. A game or two here could be very beneficial for his development next year or two. And if Lobb and Jamarra are going to stand up - Lobb will have to do a lot of work rucking and around the ground too - they need someone else to structurally help them.

We're not looking to throw Croft to the wolves with no other forward support or letting him sink for a month or two - one or two games, do a job occupying an opposition key defender, work your butt off, maybe you get subbed out if we have no injuries, but I feel like that's not the worst option in the world. Hand a debut to the kid.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

I remember watching Alex Rance when he started - he had more turnovers than a Dutch baker. Thought he could never make it at AFL level with his execution and decision making.
Sometimes it is worth persisting if you can see the upside.

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I don't think anyone is criticising Gallagher - indeed the fact that he found himself winning the ball that many times, is versatile to play both on ball and on the wing, can get shots on goal through traffic etc. is absolutely worth persisting with given his pace and agility. Look at Chad Warner etc. - the best midfields are the ones that have a player or two that uses pace who 5 years ago may have been a flanker, and in fact the game itself having fewer in close handballs and total stoppages than 5 years ago proves that. Any reasonable Dogs fan can be excited for what he can become, especially as its a bit of a bonus for a lowish draft pick who didn't necessarily exceed expectations in the VFL in year one when fit.

But at the same time, we're still a team trying to win games now to make finals and maybe a flag. We can't be in this perpetual "for the future" mode. It's fair to say that Gallagher's ball use has a direct cause to margins in games. It's fair to say that the net output of his performance is poor.

For instance, 81 players have been classified as "midfielder" by champion data and played 10 games this year (about 4.5 per team with players being dropped/injury). Gallagher is ranked 80th for average Ratings Points among them, only ahead of Nik Cox.

To highlight that it's unusual for any player to have consistently been given that many games in important positions on the field throughout the entirety of the half-season and play that poorly yet still retain that position - as proven by rank 80 out of 81 - is not unusual, and it's not incorrect to highlight that imo. Clearly we see a future because we surely cannot be blind to the limited output from important positions on the field.

 

[Norm De Guerre]

We've thrown Gallagher straight into the deep end of the pool and told him to swim. It's a big ask for a guy who's played 12 games in total to both master the most difficult role in the game and have high disposal efficacy at the same time. Adam Treloar

1

Adam Treloar

Age

31

Ht

185cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

28.2

5star

K

12.9

5star

HB

15.3

5star

M

3.6

4star

T

4.9

5star

CL

4.6

5star

D

30.3

5star

K

16.3

5star

HB

14.0

5star

M

2.0

2star

T

3.3

4star

CL

5.8

5star

D

18.0

5star

K

11.2

4star

HB

6.8

5star

M

4.2

4star

T

2.6

4star

CL

1.6

4star

has never found that balance and he has probably been our most consistent mid all season. Why would we expect the same from Gallagher this early in his career.

I imagine that he will return to a more traditional role with the return of Libba and Richards this weeks. But I think that it speaks to where the club sees him in the future that he spent so much time in the middle of the ground this week. When the easy thing to do would've been to run Macrae or Daniel in there instead.

Some of it has been forced upon us by injury and form issues. But we're currently witnessing a quiet revolution in our midfield. I for one hope it continues and if that means the likes of Gallagher on occasion butcher the ball as they learn to swim then thats ok with me.

 

[Unorth]

Now do B.Smith stats….the eye test says he’s a turnover merchant too

Baz ranked first for turnovers per game in 2022. Not team wide, whole AFL. Was top 10 in total turnovers in 2021. Last year we took changed his responsibilities somewhat and he dropped to 4 turnovers a game. Not great but was not the worst.

Not that it's in itself a damning thing, most of the top turnover players are also very good. Bont last year was way up there as is Treloar this year. There's a lot of context, some players are asked to take riskier options knowing that occasionally it will be a turnover, some teams accept trade offs for other advantages players offer, you can make the right kick but the player on the receiving end may be in the wrong position, etc.

...But all in all fair to say Baz has racked up a fair few over the years, more than we would have liked. It's probable that Baz has played his last game for us so it becomes someone else's problem anyway.

I think there's some relevancy to Gallagher here, he would probably be playing VFL were Baz available. But we are investing in him for a post-Baz 2025 and beyond.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Baz ranked first for turnovers per game in 2022. Not team wide, whole AFL. Was top 10 in total turnovers in 2021. Last year we took changed his responsibilities somewhat and he dropped to 4 turnovers a game. Not great but was not the worst.

Not that it's in itself a damning thing, most of the top turnover players are also very good. Bont last year was way up there as is Treloar this year. There's a lot of context, some players are asked to take riskier options knowing that occasionally it will be a turnover, some teams accept trade offs for other advantages players offer, you can make the right kick but the player on the receiving end may be in the wrong position, etc.

...But all in all fair to say Baz has racked up a fair few over the years, more than we would have liked. It's probable that Baz has played his last game for us so it becomes someone else's problem anyway.

I think there's some relevancy to Gallagher here, he would probably be playing VFL were Baz available. But we are investing in him for a post-Baz 2025 and beyond.

Turnover stats can be a little bit misleading.

Disposals can be effective, ineffective or clanger.
Possession can lead to a score, retained possession, stoppage or turnover
The nature of that retained possession can be through a contested or uncontested posession.
All of which can be valuable or are effected if the player themselves won possession in an uncontested or contested manner, or are getting significant metres gained.

Turnover stats are a bit limited as clanger disposals can not be a turnover and effective disposals can be.

 

[Chalky White]

If it makes you feel better - then yes, I can understand this. I also see that Gallagher wins a lot of ball on the inside as well, and is often kicking under pressure. He will get better over time.

Can you recall Matthew Boyd’s first few years? Gallagher is doing ok.


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He needs a spell

 

[Chalky White]

I don't think anyone is criticising Gallagher - indeed the fact that he found himself winning the ball that many times, is versatile to play both on ball and on the wing, can get shots on goal through traffic etc. is absolutely worth persisting with given his pace and agility. Look at Chad Warner etc. - the best midfields are the ones that have a player or two that uses pace who 5 years ago may have been a flanker, and in fact the game itself having fewer in close handballs and total stoppages than 5 years ago proves that. Any reasonable Dogs fan can be excited for what he can become, especially as its a bit of a bonus for a lowish draft pick who didn't necessarily exceed expectations in the VFL in year one when fit.

But at the same time, we're still a team trying to win games now to make finals and maybe a flag. We can't be in this perpetual "for the future" mode. It's fair to say that Gallagher's ball use has a direct cause to margins in games. It's fair to say that the net output of his performance is poor.

For instance, 81 players have been classified as "midfielder" by champion data and played 10 games this year (about 4.5 per team with players being dropped/injury). Gallagher is ranked 80th for average Ratings Points among them, only ahead of Nik Cox.

To highlight that it's unusual for any player to have consistently been given that many games in important positions on the field throughout the entirety of the half-season and play that poorly yet still retain that position - as proven by rank 80 out of 81 - is not unusual, and it's not incorrect to highlight that imo. Clearly we see a future because we surely cannot be blind to the limited output from important positions on the field.

Thankyou

 

[Bulldog Brent]

How are we feeling about this game?

 

[BallaratBulldog]

How are we feeling about this game?

I think we will win. Hopefully Richards and Libba back.

 

[JTCWBFC]

I think we will win. Hopefully Richards and Libba back.

Worried about our forward line if we dont challenge and win on west.

Missing 5 of our preferred 6 forwards

If we dominate the midfield though it may not matter who is down there as much

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

How are we feeling about this game?

We have been in pretty good form, but will likely be without 6 of our top 9 goal kickers. If we can find avenues to goal I give us a chance, but it's going to be tough.

 

[Bald]

I think despite our outs due to injury and suspension our team balance will improve in the middle of the ground.

Ed and Libba being back means we can probably shift Gallagher to the wing where I think at the moment he will be most effective. Having all of Bont, Libba, Treloar, Ed and Sanders rotating through should be plenty.

Forward line is another situation all together. Bedendo probably deserves a spot but being a medium he’s not really a good fit to replace either West or Darcy. Do we maybe bring in Smith to play majority ruck and role English forward?

 

[PurpJuice]

Our resurgence has been largely due to Darcy. Not having him has me nervous.

 

[geoffjennings79]

I don't think anyone is criticising Gallagher

Bramble, Daniel and Gallagher very lucky that the injuries/suspensions have occurred. All 3 appallingly bad. Gallaghers skills, Bramble brainfades and Daniel has just been worked out and slowed.

Ok I saw consistently in the last few games. Gallagher either coughing up directly to an opponenbt, kicking out on the full, missing simple set shots, doing a shadowing job on an opposition star who basically used him as a witches hat.
If you aren't seeing bigtime mistakes like i am then i can't help you Lachy. His first two games were okay, he got a rising star nomination I think for his game against West Coast, who at that time were the worst team in the comp.
Since then he has been a complete liability.

Gallagher at times went head to head with one of the best players in the competition. He's not Bont, and will likely move to the wing if both Liber and Richards are back. But he is worth persisting with, personally I'm happy to have him getting experience at CBAs when he can. Plus he keeps presenting, doesn't let mistakes get to him.
Plus Bevo and the coaches wouldn't keep putting him into CBAs - including at critical stage of Q4 - if they don't believe he is up to it.

 

[PocketRocket08]

Seen a few suggesting Clarke. However if you have been watching the VFL though I still have serious doubts about him Artie Jones is way ahead of him at the moment

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Arty was good on Friday and that’s been the only game all yr he has played better than Clarke. I hope Arty gets the nod he deserves a go. Important for his confidence.
Clarke though didn’t kick a goal had about 5 direct goals assists and plenty of score involvements.
Remember both young boys form will fluctuate. Progress isn’t just upward trajectory. Ups and downs, mistakes and errors is where growth will come.

 

[PocketRocket08]

What I saw of Clarke in his one and only game tells me that he won't make it as an AFL player. I'm not convinced on Artie either. He is a lovely fella and gives the team a nice vibe, but really he does nothing much.
You look at low possession small forwards over time and they are very sinister off the ball. Rundown tackles, tap-ons, just having the defenders 5hitting themselves when they are around. I don't see that with Artie. I reckon any good defender would have a sense of relief if they were on him. I can see why the club invested in him but it hasn't quite worked out.

Lucky you’re not a list manager.
So many players have been poor in early games in their career.
Kade Simpson played over 300 games his first 4 games didn’t touch the ball Jono brown had two games no possesions. McLeod Watson I could go on had a less than 5 possessions.
Clarke had 6 in less than half on the ground and almost a goal but from a good tackle for Day I think.
You may end up being correct however patience is need with young boys playing small fwd not all are kosi or Cyril. Look what stengle is doing now after getting traded from tigers.

 

[PocketRocket08]

Gallagher had as many centre clearances as Bont and Treloar despite attending fewer centre bounces

Gags has been very good especially in the contest for a player who’s played less than 12 games. Yes some turnovers but he will come good. Has kicked some great goals and his skills are fine it’s just adjusting to the speed of the game

 

[PocketRocket08]

As for changes this week
Outs West Darcy Harmes VDM(though he might be ok. Talking to a club physio at local footy today )
Ins libba Richards buku(fwd) arty

 

[stefoid]

Gallagher has been very good - he just needs to work on steadying before kicking - he has more time than he thinks and he hacks it forward a bit.Treloar does that a bit too but no-one is talking about him, just about the 15 game player…

Keep pumping games into him - he’s going to be a very solid player for us.


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Gags is getting better, but lacks polish. Seems like he has Bevs gold pass to me. Garcia for instance, is performing better

 

[Scotch N Coke Monatore]

He needs a spell

Crazy talk.

 

[Flags_In_The_Bag]

Have a feeling Lobb is going to do in this match like he use to do when he played against us for Freo and bag a 5