Opinion Chris Scott's coaching - PART III

[Vdubs]

Never said they were.

AM asked a question, I answered it. If others don't like it that's not my problem.

Just saying, you have a great way of making your points look authoritative. And mostly they probably are.

 

[AM]

Never said they were.

AM asked a question, I answered it. If others don't like it that's not my problem.

Thanks Partridge.

Of course it's a viewpoint. 90% of the stuff here is as we are all on the outside looking in. Mostly the factual stuff comes from those commenting on matters within their wheelhouse - Vdubs and sporting injuries for instance.

The main contention in your 4 point response was poor team selection and poor player management. Both of which are quintessential coaching issues. There wouldn't be a coach worth his salt who would not say it's the work done during the week that is the key determinant of match day outcomes. How well they train, strategic planning, team selection, player management et al all fall well within the purview of coaching.

So it's a tad cunning to put that you don't like key elements of his coaching then say "... I will admit every day of the week he can coach" That gives a new meaning to having a bit each way.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

This is so wrong it’s not funny. For one the likes of SJ and Chapman wouldn’t of been at the club as Scott would of sold them off for poor defensive sides of their game. He probably would of had the likes of David Johnson playing as a defensive forward instead. Scott teams are hesitant and chip side ways. Very few young players have developed as they should have under Scott. The likes of Cam Guthrie have gone dramatically backwards from where he was three years earlier. That didn’t happen under Thompson. Thompson got the best ouf of his players. The likes of Ling and Enright weren’t terribly talented but became stars. Under Thompson Thurlow would probably be a great half back flanker like Enright by now.

but he did coach they same team in 2011 and he didn’t do any of those things you say so your simply wrong. He had that exact same team Thompson had and coached it through our most successful finals campaign out of any of the years from 2007-2011 we had.

No shaky nervy games where we almost dropped the entire bundle like under Thompson’s 2 flag years. Just pure solid amazing tactically solid football he has us playing.


Reason I bring this up is because all I hear is finals record. Well we have great proof to analyse if Scott can coach a side to a premiership given the right tools, all you have to do is analyse the 07-11 team under two different coaches with an identical team to figure it out.

Without a doubt 2011 was our most solid complete finals campaign we had. How could this be if he “can’t coach in finals?” Odd. He did better in that finals series than Thompson did any any of the previous

 

[Max Milburn]

Remain unconvinced that this win had anything to do with Scott. The 1st qtr was pure Scott and just about every game that we have played this year. But something happened , perhaps the players were reminded of Billys words about being lazy.
On that well done Billy you might have given them the kick up the backside that was needed. I am sure that you will suffer for your words though as our club has a way of punishing those who are critical of 'them'

Billy was a talented player and is a passionate supporter. But, by his own choice, he is a clown. If our players are listening to what he says rather than what Chris Scott says I'd be very worried. Not sure where you're going with the conspiracy story either...

 

[Landgraft]

Thanks Partridge.

Of course it's a viewpoint. 90% of the stuff here is as we are all on the outside looking in. Mostly the factual stuff comes from those commenting on matters within their wheelhouse - Vdubs and sporting injuries for instance.

The main contention in your 4 point response was poor team selection and poor player manage. Both of which are quintessential coaching issues. There wouldn't be a coach worth his salt who would not say it's the work done during the week that is the key determinant of match day outcomes. How well they train, strategic planning, team selection, player management et al all fall well within the purview of coaching.

So it's a tad cunning to put that you don't like key elements of his coaching then say "... I will admit every day of the week he can coach" That gives a new meaning to having a bit each way.

It doesn't seem that contradictory to suggest that Scott can be a good tactician but a less good manager.

 

[ATSAM]

In the press conference Scott said something like " we played the game that we talked about". Wonder when the talk was?

 

[AM]

It doesn't seem that contradictory to suggest that Scott can be a good tactician but a less good manager.

That's not Comrade Partridge put though.

 

[Zeroman]

I have heard a rumour that Ross Lyon might be willing to return to Victoria. If so could we get him here. Geelong would be the better with him here looking after the seniors as head coach, Scott coaching Bell Park, and Lyon the senior U15's.

 

[Partridge]

Just saying, you have a great way of making your points look authoritative. And mostly they probably are.

Thanks VD, but I'm pretty sure they're not!

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Remain unconvinced that this win had anything to do with Scott. The 1st qtr was pure Scott and just about every game that we have played this year. But something happened , perhaps the players were reminded of Billys words about being lazy.
On that well done Billy you might have given them the kick up the backside that was needed. I am sure that you will suffer for your words though as our club has a way of punishing those who are critical of 'them'

Has a Geelong win ever been because of Scott? Including a premiership he won.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

I have heard a rumour that Ross Lyon might be willing to return to Victoria. If so could we get him here. Geelong would be the better with him here looking after the seniors as head coach, Scott coaching Bell Park, and Lyon the senior U15's.

Would love him as an assistant. Could bring a lot to the table. Very good coach.

 

[Vdubs]

Remain unconvinced that this win had anything to do with Scott. The 1st qtr was pure Scott and just about every game that we have played this year. But something happened , perhaps the players were reminded of Billys words about being lazy.
On that well done Billy you might have given them the kick up the backside that was needed. I am sure that you will suffer for your words though as our club has a way of punishing those who are critical of 'them'

You can't ascribe the win to CS, so all our losses must be also unrelated to him as well.

 

[you pick one]

Hardwick having a good old whinge over the lack of free kicks to Riewoldt, looking to influence the umpiring running up to the finals,I hope Scott manages to point out his boy Tom Hawkins is actually doing even worse and should also be better looked after by the umps.
Shout it from the roof tops Scotty.

 

[iameviljez]

Would love him as an assistant. Could bring a lot to the table. Very good coach.

Ross Lyon would be as likely to take being as assistant as Trump would be likely to take being Vice-President. And that's only human nature - if you have a reputation as a highly authoritative (and successful) leader, why would you want to be second banana?

 

[Zeroman]

Would love him as an assistant. Could bring a lot to the table. Very good coach.

Could bring a lot, of oranges, party pies and wet lettuce sandwiches, to the table. Diversify the Scott Patisserie, good for business.

 

[Spazz Cat]

The counter (hypothetical) argument is that CS in charge of THAT LIST 07-11, would have won 4-5 flags given what he did in 2011.
And the CS detractors NEVER come on after a great win and concede that he can coach.
It's always crap opposition, wait for next week...

I strongly disagree. Im one who also can praise C.S as i do often.
But the hypothetical is such a ridiculous statement.
For an obviously smart bloke It makes me wonder if you're really living in reality sometimes or if your off in GC's fantasy land.
For starters Bomber developed a team which C.S has yet proven he can do.
Look at our players, Murdoch 100+ games, Guthrie 130+ games, Kolo 50+ games.
The only win is Blitz.
Also Bomber was a crazy workaholic. Used to drive all over the country just to meet potential draftees, wanted to be involved and teach every single player young player on the list.
CS doesnt even turn up to exit interviews, talks to fringe players twice a year and turnd up to match days (in his own words) as late as possible.
Bomber also had McCarthy, Hinkley, Sanderson etc
CS has only (except Knights) former colleagues.
It makes me really wonder about some so called fans about how much they devalue and TBH flat out insult our previous coaching team and administration for what they turned our club into now.
Thinking any pleb could do it WTF? Well why couldnt they do it in the 50 years before, or the time since.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Ross Lyon would be as likely to take being as assistant as Trump would be likely to take being Vice-President. And that's only human nature - if you have a reputation as a highly authoritative (and successful) leader, why would you want to be second banana?

Maybe he wants to remove himself from the spotlight?? Who knows it’s just wishful thinking, I agree it’s unlikely but he would be an amazing assistant coach.

 

[Vdubs]

I strongly disagree. Im one who also can praise C.S as i do often.
But the hypothetical is such a ridiculous statement.
For an obviously smart bloke It makes me wonder if you're really living in reality sometimes or if your off in GC's fantasy land.
For starters Bomber developed a team which C.S has yet proven he can do.
Look at our players, Murdoch 100+ games, Guthrie 130+ games, Kolo 50+ games.
The only win is Blitz.
Also Bomber was a crazy workaholic. Used to drive all over the country just to meet potential draftees, wanted to be involved and teach every single player young player on the list.
CS doesnt even turn up to exit interviews, talks to fringe players twice a year and turnd up to match days (in his own words) as late as possible.
Bomber also had McCarthy, Hinkley, Sanderson etc
CS has only (except Knights) former colleagues.
It makes me really wonder about some so called fans about how much they devalue and TBH flat out insult our previous coaching team and administration for what they turned our club into now.
Thinking any pleb could do it WTF? Well why couldnt they do it in the 50 years before, or the time since.

The 2006 Bomber was far from that workaholic dedicated coach you describe.
Then after the pre 07 review, he was given a more defined role with lots of PR work delegated to others.
CS needs the 6 years to develop this young list that he has before we can say yes or no to his abilities in that development area.
Look at our players EXACTLY. That is the point.
Whilst I like all 3 of that trio, they are not the same quality os our immortals. Full stop.
Doesn't mean we discard them- they are Geelong players who bust their guts for our team, but they have limitations. Include Duncan in that group.
How do you think Henry, Parfitt, and Kelly are tracking?
And Sav?

 

[PhatBoy]

I think the idea of comparing Thompson and Scott based on their respective abilities to develop a team as bordering on r...ardation

Thompson took 8 seasons to win a flag, developing the list that he did. That doesn't devalue it, or what followed, it's just a fact.

Scott hasn't proven he can develop a list into a premiership team. But he's really only had 4 seasons to try it. He's missed the mark on a few occasions - Guthrie and Murdoch as mentioned earlier are not great products of his system. But there were plenty of misses in Thompson's stint too, prior to the golden age. At the moment it is looking like a handful of current rookies and young guns will turn into quality players.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

I strongly disagree. Im one who also can praise C.S as i do often.
But the hypothetical is such a ridiculous statement.
For an obviously smart bloke It makes me wonder if you're really living in reality sometimes or if your off in GC's fantasy land.
For starters Bomber developed a team which C.S has yet proven he can do.
Look at our players, Murdoch 100+ games, Guthrie 130+ games, Kolo 50+ games.
The only win is Blitz.
Also Bomber was a crazy workaholic. Used to drive all over the country just to meet potential draftees, wanted to be involved and teach every single player young player on the list.
CS doesnt even turn up to exit interviews, talks to fringe players twice a year and turnd up to match days (in his own words) as late as possible.
Bomber also had McCarthy, Hinkley, Sanderson etc
CS has only (except Knights) former colleagues.
It makes me really wonder about some so called fans about how much they devalue and TBH flat out insult our previous coaching team and administration for what they turned our club into now.
Thinking any pleb could do it WTF? Well why couldnt they do it in the 50 years before, or the time since.

I don’t see anything extreme in saying a coach with the highest winning percentage in AFL history is a great coach. I don’t see anything extreme saying that a coach who has entirely redeveloped an old side in its twilight without dropping out of contention for a premiership. I don’t see anything extreme about saying a coach is better than his previous coach when he coached the exact same team and performed better in finals with it. I don’t see anything extreme either in saying a coach who has already coached a premiership is capable of leading a side to a premiership.

Excuse me for my extreme views that probably the majority of the footballing community share.

 

[Vdubs]

I think the idea of comparing Thompson and Scott based on their respective abilities to develop a team as bordering on r...ardation

Thompson took 8 seasons to win a flag, developing the list that he did. That doesn't devalue it, or what followed, it's just a fact.

Scott hasn't proven he can develop a list into a premiership team. But he's really only had 4 seasons to try it. He's missed the mark on a few occasions - Guthrie and Murdoch as mentioned earlier are not great products of his system. But there were plenty of misses in Thompson's stint too, prior to the golden age. At the moment it is looking like a handful of current rookies and young guns will turn into quality players.

So why do the comparisons keep getting brought up?
Just human nature?
Happens in everything.
Danger v Dusty v Fyfe
Snr v Jnr
Stones v Beatles
Fleetwood Mac v Eagles
Fed v Nadal....

 

[Spazz Cat]

The 2006 Bomber was far from that workaholic dedicated coach you describe.
Then after the pre 07 review, he was given a more defined role with lots of PR work delegated to others.
CS needs the 6 years to develop this young list that he has before we can say yes or no to his abilities in that development area.
Look at our players EXACTLY. That is the point.
Whilst I like all 3 of that trio, they are not the same quality os our immortals. Full stop.
Doesn't mean we discard them- they are Geelong players who bust their guts for our team, but they have limitations. Include Duncan in that group.
How do you think Henry, Parfitt, and Kelly are tracking?
And Sav?

The pre 2006 Bomber was exactly that. Read any book from any player who was involved during that time. He actually burnt himself out before 2006 even started.
Henry Parfitt and Sav are tracking great. But they're not there yet. Sav has played like 10 game FFS.
Just like many of our players who've shown potential.
8 years is enough to see something previously.
Honestly I can see how some of the youngens on here think success comes easy and anyone can do it,
But someone who's seen a few try and fail including an amazing football brain, 2 time flag coach who had Gaz snr, Couch & Hocking at his disposal should know better.

 

[Vdubs]

The pre 2006 Bomber was exactly that. Read any book from any player who was involved during that time. He actually burnt himself out before 2006 even started.
Henry Parfitt and Sav are tracking great. But they're not there yet. Just like many of our players who've shown potential.
8 years is enough to see something previously.
Honestly I can see how some of the youngens on here think success comes easy and anyone can do it,
But someone who's seen a few try and fail including an amazing football brain, 2 time flag coach who had Gaz snr, Couch & Hocking at his disposal should know better.

Pre 06 yes.
Then in 06, there were extra-curricular causes for his burnout.
So in that regard, maybe CS has self preservation methods to prevent burnout.
He knows he can't be all things to all people.

 

[Spazz Cat]

I don’t see anything extreme in saying a coach with the highest winning percentage in AFL history is a great coach. I don’t see anything extreme saying that a coach who has entirely redeveloped an old side in its twilight without dropping out of contention for a premiership. I don’t see anything extreme about saying a coach is better than his previous coach when he coached the exact same team and performed better in finals with it. I don’t see anything extreme either in saying a coach who has already coached a premiership is capable of leading a side to a premiership.

Excuse me for my extreme views that probably the majority of the footballing community share.

I hear your views. But the majority of the football community do not share that.
Only young Cats fans who dont remember what it's like to build a flag team and can't remember any of the 50 years before.
Unless he can make another GF he'll be remembered in the ilk of Joyce.
(Alan Joyce coached a Hawthorn team to a flag previously developed by Alan Jeans)

 

[goyoucatters]

Yeah we've slumped all the way down to fourth for points scored. It's tragic.

After West Coast's score for round 22 is added, we're actually all the way down to fifth.

Behind this year's top two (Tiges and Eagles) as well as the two teams most advantaged by finishing low last year and receiving a golden draw for 2018 as a result (Dees and Pies).

We're second for points against, though, which could explain Scott's reference to a 'defence first' mentality.

Although it probably makes more sense to smash him about how the club has abandoned a desire to play any attacking footy at all.

Particularly in the wash-up of a game where we only kicked 23 goals unanswered (an AFL record) and handed the ultra-defensive Ross the biggest shellacking of his entire coaching career.

Probably not the most opportune time to be posting a supposedly objective analysis of Scott's inability to embrace 'the Geelong way', I would have thought.