Christians are easily startled, but they'll soon be back. And in greater numbers 36:11

[Gethelred]

Welcome to the Ask an Atheist thread II.

Previous part:

Win Prizes - Ask an Atheist - Shoe's on the other foot now!

Alright, we're going to have a change of tack. As I'm sure you can see, the thread title has been changed to Ask an Atheist. People who have a question to ask of the atheists who populate this thread - more than the christians do - should feel free to ask questions of them. If you've still got...

www.bigfooty.com

Standard board rules apply.

 

[Total Power]

The proselytising doesn't bother me nearly as much as the desire for political power.

Proselytizing religions also generally believe everyone else's beliefs are essentially wrong or inferior or they have the best belief system out there as our mate Vdubs have said it time and time again. 'It's the best way to God'

Which is essentially why i am not against Eastern religions or you will never see me post much against those types of belief systems.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

The proselytising doesn't bother me nearly as much as the desire for political power.

I see that as an extension of proselytising to quite some extent.

 

[Vdubs]

Nope, i don't have to respect you calling me a sinner. I ain't so sinner and sin in Bible is absolutely bullshit. I don't have to 'respect' threats of blasphemy and hell..which many of my Christian friends tend to do at times (maybe not you).

I have no issues if you blokes keep your beliefs to yourself instead of trying to 'proselytize'. Both The Abrahamic religions are very well known for this but we are apparently supposed to respect that.



Nope, he had plenty of opposition within the Christian world. J.R.R Tolkien for example was his friend but he also criticised C.S Lewis a lot. As i wrote before his audience were the fence-sitting Christian. When i was a Christian his book Mere Christianity was pretty unappealing to me. I made a long post about it before.

Your opinion, and of course, to be expected.
No worries.
C.S. Lewis legacy lives on today, even if he doesn't impress you.

Once you think you've found the real thing, it's hard to keep it to yourself.

The Great Commission (Matthew 28: 16–20)​

Jesus had arranged to meet the disciples in Galilee after his resurrection.
They went to a high mountain and worshiped him, although Matthew notes that some doubted.
Jesus gives them some instructions and reassurance, this event has become known as the Great Commission.
Jesus tells the disciples to:

“Go and make disciples of all nations, baptising them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything that I have commanded you.”

The disciples began their missionary work in spreading the good news about Jesus and obeying his instructions from the Great Commission.
Christians are also called to follow these instructions as disciples of Jesus. Some people do this by:

• carrying out missionary work across the globe
• giving themselves to religious life (perhaps by becoming a priest or a minister)
• living a Christian life as an example to others

Jesus leaves the disciples with an important fact:

“remember, I am with you always, to the end of the age.

This would have given them confidence and reassurance when they were completing their difficult mission.


There it is, but you will find issues with that too.

 

[Roylion]

Once you think you've found the real thing, it's hard to keep it to yourself.

Which of course is proselytising.

 

[Boston tiger]

The Book of Acts ends with Paul in Rome alive and preaching unfettered (Acts 28:30–31)

There's absolutely expectation that just because you tell a story about someone in the past that if you do not narrate a character's death that means they're still alive.

Otherwise, there are very good reasons to date Luke-Acts late, such as the use of Mark (written around 70), the plausible use of Josephus (Steve Mason's argument), general social history which reflects a later time period, etc.

There's the simple possibility that the author of Acts just didn't know. We don't have any contemporary accounts of Paul’s death. He just disappeared from the historical record, although traditions from several decades afterwards indicate that he was martyred. The earliest reference comes in the letter from the church of Rome to the church of Corinth known as 1 Clement, written around AD 95, some thirty years after the traditional date for Paul’s death.

The book of Acts ends with; "He lived there two whole years at his own expense, and welcomed all who came to him, proclaiming the kingdom of God and teaching about the Lord Jesus Christ with all boldness and without hindrance” (Acts 28:30)

Acts isn't meant as history. It tells the story of a message that was rejected by the Jews and embraced by the Gentiles. Historically it is sometimes inaccurate and not always a reliable source, from a historical point of view.




Conservative evangelical scholars want to claim that Acts was written before Paul’s death in around AD 64 (since otherwise the author would surely have narrated his death). They then argue that therefore Luke’s Gospel (written by the same author) was written before then. So they argue both Luke and Acts are nearer to the times they describe and that they are more likely (so it is assumed, by implication) to be historically accurate and so add weight to their claims that the events described did actually happen.




Luke suggests in Luke 1:1 that “many” have written the story about Jesus’ life "Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled among us"..

Jesus’ judgment on the Temple in Mark "Do you see all these great buildings?" replied Jesus. "Not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down." (Mark 13.2) and his announcement of its desecration. “When you see ‘the abomination that causes desolation standing where it does not belong—let the reader understand—then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. (Mark 13:14) are repeated by the author of the Gospel of Luke.

Luke 21:6 “As for what you see here, the time will come when not one stone will be left on another; every one of them will be thrown down.” and Luke 21:20 “When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near. Luke 21:21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city.

Luke readjusts Jesus’ 'prophecy' by writing about “Jerusalem surrounded by armies”

This editorial change on Luke’s part mirrors a description of the siege and capture of Jerusalem in AD 70, which means that the third Gospel was definitely written after AD 70. As was Mark's.

With the Acts … it’s more about the court case result not getting thrown in . Putting his death in down the track is neither here nor there . But to be telling a specific account of Paul’ desperate legal troubles and then not bothering to put in the result if you knew the result is a strange one.

Next point ..You can’t call “ the place will be surrounded “ as after the fact details on the fall of the temple. No matter how you look at it they very general statements about an event that is on the cards to happen. Of course they are going to have to to surround it . Jesus is taking on the establishment and he’s talking the good fight and he’s banking on its going pair shape for the Jews.
Another point … the writers don’t present the prediction as a proven prophecy ( it’s still up for grabs ).

This is my own personal take.

Where is the mention of fire ?? . No mention from the Gospel writers who supposedly knew all the details . Fire Fire Fire. Everyone like to write about fire and burning. Not Jesus .. he missed that chance.



According to Josephus…


“Somehow the fire was so intense that even the stone took hold and the building collapsed. The Talmud says that it burned not only on the late afternoon of the ninth of Av, but the entire day of the tenth.[1] It was just a raging conflagration.

They were unable to put out the fire and the entire Temple burned – along with thousands of Jews, according to Josephus. Many of the distraught defenders jumped into the flames, feeling that if the Temple was going up in flames then the Jewish people were going up in flames. In general, desperation and despair was so rampant that thousands and thousands of Jews committed suicide. This type of suicidal behavior is rare among the Jewish people, and indeed was performed mostly by the Zealots, not adherents of the Pharisees, who followed Rabbi Yochanon ben Zakkai’s lead and were not willing to associate the national death of the Jewish people with the end of the Jewish people.”

Now that’s how you tell after the fact porkies

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[carltonchelsea]

It wasn't a definition, it was a convenient label for the position I described, which isn't a universal belief among atheists. Hardcore is not an insult. I don't know why you're hung up about it and you don't seem to know either.

Anyway TP has shown me the error of my ways and we've settled on mainstream atheism.

Lol, here we again!!
There is only one meaning attached to the word atheism, the non belief in the claims “there is a god”.
It’s not a system, it’s not a qualifier for any other thought process beyond non belief based upon the lack of evidence presented.

 

[Total Power]

Your opinion, and of course, to be expected.
No worries.
C.S. Lewis legacy lives on today, even if he doesn't impress you.

As a work of literature? sure...orelse..nah ...FAIL. How is a Christian writer, writing to a select group of people, appealing to them carry any relevance to anyone else outside of that religion?????


Just like there are many Muslim writers you don't care about, why would i care about what his opinion is? this is still just his opinion, funny you don't realise it..a bad one (or a good one for you) but still an opinion.

I have made a criticism of Lewis a few pages ago, he was terrible and a massive Christian circle jerk..but good on you that you think he is worthwhile.

A slightly above average writer with a pretty low IQ.

Legacy...yeah nah. A good writer must appeal to everyone, not just a select group of people, look at Shakespeare, Dickens or even Tolkien who was Lewis good friend.

Once you think you've found the real thing, it's hard to keep it to yourself.

Hence i said proselytising. You prove me right, both your cult and Islam are the same.

Every religious group think they are right, but not all are proselytising cults.

Thanks VD, i don't even need to try to prove my point, you keep doing it for me.

And then say 'respect everyones beliefs'. Not all beliefs are the same. Yours is not the same as mine, it doesn't deserve respect.

Hence i respect the Eastern religions and not yours.

The Great Commission (Matthew 28: 16–20)​

Jesus had arranged to meet the disciples in Galilee after his resurrection.
They went to a high mountain and worshiped him, although Matthew notes that some doubted.
Jesus gives them some instructions and reassurance, this event has become known as the Great Commission.
Jesus tells the disciples to:

The disciples began their missionary work in spreading the good news about Jesus and obeying his instructions from the Great Commission.
Christians are also called to follow these instructions as disciples of Jesus. Some people do this by:

• carrying out missionary work across the globe
• giving themselves to religious life (perhaps by becoming a priest or a minister)
• living a Christian life as an example to others

Jesus leaves the disciples with an important fact:

This would have given them confidence and reassurance when they were completing their difficult mission.


There it is, but you will find issues with that too.

Great commission, ah another verse added around 4th century AD.. wonder why?

religions are memes (like yours for example) and they function like viruses. The most successful religions are those the are the most ‘infectious’. Look at the Hare Krishnas - it’s the only form of Hinduism that accepts conversion/proselytising - and it’s grown as a result.

It's a pyramid scheme, my dude.

 

[Boston tiger]

How many of you atheists here are Christian atheists. I’m thinking most of you .
Anybody here that isn’t ?

“Christian atheism is an ideology that embraces the teachings, narratives, symbols, practices, or communities associated with Christianity without accepting the literal existence of God. It often overlaps with nontheism and post-theism


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[liz]

How many of you atheists here are Christian atheists. I’m thinking most of you .
Anybody here that isn’t ?

“Christian atheism is an ideology that embraces the teachings, narratives, symbols, practices, or communities associated with Christianity without accepting the literal existence of God. It often overlaps with nontheism and post-theism


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Atheism isn’t an ideology. It’s is the absence of belief in a deity. That’s it.

Atheists can - and do - choose to adopt a variety of social, ethical, economic, political, even spiritual ideologies.

 

[Roylion]

With the Acts … it’s more about the court case result not getting thrown in . Putting his death in down the track is neither here nor there . But to be telling a specific account of Paul’ desperate legal troubles and then not bothering to put in the result if you knew the result is a strange one.

There may have been no trial at all to report.

1 Clement, may well be suggesting that Paul went to Spain and that he died there:

having taught righteousness unto the whole world and having reached
the farthest bounds of the West [Spain]; and when he had borne his testimony
before the rulers, so he departed from the world and went unto the
holy place, having been found a notable pattern of patient endurance.

Next point ..You can’t call “ the place will be surrounded “ as after the fact details on the fall of the temple.

Mark 13 and Luke 21:20 “When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near" is clearly referring to the First Jewish–Roman War (AD 66–74), which led to the destruction of the Second Temple in AD 70.

No matter how you look at it they very general statements about an event that is on the cards to happen.

What's the "event that is on the cards to happen"? Could you explain more exactly what you are referring to?

Of course they are going to have to to surround it . Jesus is taking on the establishment and he’s talking the good fight and he’s banking on its going pair shape for the Jews.

Who are "they"?

There's no historical record of Jerusalem being surrounded by armies until the siege of Jerusalem in AD 70. The Jewish rebellion didn't occur until AD 66, between 30-35 years after the traditional date for the cruxifixion.

Another point … the writers don’t present the prediction as a proven prophecy ( it’s still up for grabs ).

It's "prophecy after the fact"

Where is the mention of fire ?? . No mention from the Gospel writers who supposedly knew all the details . Fire Fire Fire. Everyone like to write about fire and burning. Not Jesus .. he missed that chance.

Part of the Temple and city were indeed destroyed by fire, but also some of the temple and city was pulled down by soldiers. Massive stone collapses from the Temple Mount's walls were discovered laying over the ancient Herodian street that runs along the Western Wall, just to the right of the plaza. I myself have seen these stones.

 

[Total Power]

How many of you atheists here are Christian atheists. I’m thinking most of you .
Anybody here that isn’t ?

“Christian atheism is an ideology that embraces the teachings, narratives, symbols, practices, or communities associated with Christianity without accepting the literal existence of God. It often overlaps with nontheism and post-theism


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You can 'define' it any way you want, at the end of the day the god of religion(s) is bullshit. None of them deserve any attention, especially one where we insist that one is "generally better" than another. They never stand up to the same scrutiny, and objective criticisms from any discipline known to man. They are all equally historically useless as anything more than an echo of our evolution as a species.

 

[Roylion]

How many of you atheists here are Christian atheists. I’m thinking most of you .

Why would I be a so called "Christian atheist"?

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

How many of you atheists here are Christian atheists. I’m thinking most of you .
Anybody here that isn’t ?

“Christian atheism is an ideology that embraces the teachings, narratives, symbols, practices, or communities associated with Christianity without accepting the literal existence of God. It often overlaps with nontheism and post-theism


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Not me. Plain vanilla atheist.

 

[carltonchelsea]

How many of you atheists here are Christian atheists. I’m thinking most of you .
Anybody here that isn’t ?

“Christian atheism is an ideology that embraces the teachings, narratives, symbols, practices, or communities associated with Christianity without accepting the literal existence of God. It often overlaps with nontheism and post-theism


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Much of the teaching of the mythological character known as Yeshua are the preachings of a deranged apocalyptic madman and are pure evil!

 

[western royboy]

 

[Vdubs]

View attachment 2212800

“Imagine yourself as a living house. God comes in to rebuild that house. At first, perhaps, you can understand what He is doing. He is getting the drains right and stopping the leaks in the roof and so on; you knew that those jobs needed doing and so you are not surprised. But presently He starts knocking the house about in a way that hurts abominably and does not seem to make any sense. What on earth is He up to? The explanation is that He is building quite a different house from the one you thought of - throwing out a new wing here, putting on an extra floor there, running up towers, making courtyards. You thought you were being made into a decent little cottage: but He is building a palace. He intends to come and live in it Himself.”

C.S. Lewis

 

[western royboy]

“Imagine yourself as a living house. God comes in to rebuild that house. At first, perhaps, you can understand what He is doing. He is getting the drains right and stopping the leaks in the roof and so on; you knew that those jobs needed doing and so you are not surprised. But presently He starts knocking the house about in a way that hurts abominably and does not seem to make any sense. What on earth is He up to? The explanation is that He is building quite a different house from the one you thought of - throwing out a new wing here, putting on an extra floor there, running up towers, making courtyards. You thought you were being made into a decent little cottage: but He is building a palace. He intends to come and live in it Himself.”

C.S. Lewis

Cool story

 

[Vdubs]

“The Christian does not think God will love us because we are good, but that God will make us good because He loves us.”
― C.S. Lewis

 

[liz]

“Imagine yourself as a living house. God comes in to rebuild that house. At first, perhaps, you can understand what He is doing. He is getting the drains right and stopping the leaks in the roof and so on; you knew that those jobs needed doing and so you are not surprised. But presently He starts knocking the house about in a way that hurts abominably and does not seem to make any sense. What on earth is He up to? The explanation is that He is building quite a different house from the one you thought of - throwing out a new wing here, putting on an extra floor there, running up towers, making courtyards. You thought you were being made into a decent little cottage: but He is building a palace. He intends to come and live in it Himself.”

C.S. Lewis

So he’s a cross between a bully and a squatter?

I’d tell him to eff off.

 

[Total Power]

“The Christian does not think God will love us because we are good, but that God will make us good because He loves us.”
― C.S. Lewis

Comes with an asterisk......


You didn't read the terms and conditions. Specially if you're a free thinker.

 

[Total Power]

Atleast he got one thing right

Of all bad men, religious bad men are the worst" - C.S. Lewis​

 

[Vdubs]

Atleast he got one thing right

Of all bad men, religious bad men are the worst" - C.S. Lewis​

True that

But CS Lewis looks like he got many things right.
A man ahead of his time, and still so relevant today, more than 60 years after his death.

 

[Total Power]

But CS Lewis looks like he got many things right.

As i said, it's a wonderful work of literature, like the Bible. However if you are looking for facts, better to look elsewhere.

There's a whole other dimension of problems with his MAIN ARGUMENT "Liar, Lunatic, Lord" when you remember that the NT is the only source we have of Jesus, the gospels + Acts of the Apostles are the only descriptions we have of his life, etc. No one wrote about Jesus despite him walking as a zombie and proving himself to be god (apparently) but Lewis didn't feel the need to address that. I won't get into the other issues with his writings i already covered it before.

I don't see C.S Lewis being taught in the classroom, anywhere. It's not relevant unless you are a Christian. My friends in India has never even heard of him. If you aren't a western person or a Christian, you're most likely gonna pass.

An above average writer with a low IQ.

 

[Vdubs]

As i said, it's a wonderful work of literature, like the Bible. However if you are looking for facts, better to look elsewhere.

There's a whole other dimension of problems with his MAIN ARGUMENT "Liar, Lunatic, Lord" when you remember that the NT is the only source we have of Jesus, the gospels + Acts of the Apostles are the only descriptions we have of his life, etc. No one wrote about Jesus despite him walking as a zombie and proving himself to be god (apparently) but Lewis didn't feel the need to address that. I won't get into the other issues with his writings i already covered it before.

I don't see C.S Lewis being taught in the classroom, anywhere. It's not relevant unless you are a Christian. My friends in India has never even heard of him. If you aren't a western person or a Christian, you're most likely gonna pass.

An above average writer with a low IQ.

Why you keep up the banal low IQ comment is weird-nobody with his Oxford credentials has low IQ.
As far as relevance today, I know that millions of people in Lithuania and Ukraine had their faith revitalised by Lewis' books during the Soviet invasion; Lewis is such an effective evangelist and apologist because he emphasises what believers have in common, basic, consensual Christianity. YES, he writes for ALL Christians, but also any atheist who is searching; he was an atheist himself.
Of course, zero interest to you, but once you start denigrating exceptional people, you reflect nothing but ignorance and lousy bias.

 

[Vdubs]

So he’s a cross between a bully and a squatter?

I’d tell him to eff off.

You already have.