Rumour Clark to Freo?

[pod17]

I am starting to feel pretty confident that many people on here haven't watched Palmer at all this year. In our current situation we would be trading Sherman and getting a worse kick. Palmer was recovering from injury sure but he went backwards a long way this year and was dropped three times (note I haven't checked causation of each on - may have been injured ). His kicking is terrible, he was not the accumlator he was when he was no longer the focus and he dropped off as a goal scoring threat. Having him as the centre piece of any trade is highly overvaluing his trade worth. Its like valuing Sherman based on last year rather than this year.

I would include Palmer for a couple of reasons.

He has shown he can perform at AFL level. 2008 was a good year. Yes his disposal was below average but him accumulating and handballing to Rich wouldn't be such a bad thing.

Came off a compromised pre season this year as you mentioned. This was effectively his second season of AFL after missing the majority of last year with the knee. He would have struggled with confidence and expecting him to set the world on fire off a short run is not fair. It would have been a big ask to come back and replicate the form he had shown pre injury immediately.

Freo would IMO entertain the prospect of including him in a Clark trade. There are a couple of more promising younger players on their list but they won't be accessible.

I admit we would be losing out slightly as Palmer + a later first rounder (or a Suban/Ibbotson) would be a loss for us. But if Clark is leaving next year regardless we may end up worse off. He is still young and could easily recapture the form that won him the Rising Star. At the very least he has some scope for improvement and the potential to be a very solid player.

Again though, if this is just a rumour, I would obviously much prefer to keep Clark as he adds more to our side. Just need to plan for the worst case scenario

 

[Quigley]

The loss of lateral movement by Palmer is also a big concern for me.

Anyone think this might be a variation of the old go home ploy? Clark's agent looking for an extension on big money (I would be shocked if we had not already approached all of the guys to extend past next year) and the agent puts out the story to the gullible journo. No real intention of leaving but the threat might be enough to put another couple of 100k on the contract.

 

[Football Pope]

Clark wanting to up & leave seems out of the blue .. Wondering has any punishment been issued for his smoke machine antics...like being left out on the Shanghai Showdown?

 

[Fatcat08]

The loss of lateral movement by Palmer is also a big concern for me.

Anyone think this might be a variation of the old go home ploy? Clark's agent looking for an extension on big money (I would be shocked if we had not already approached all of the guys to extend past next year) and the agent puts out the story to the gullible journo. No real intention of leaving but the threat might be enough to put another couple of 100k on the contract.

Of all the options of what is happening here I would imagine that this is probably the one that is closest to the mark.

I would imagine that we are in the process of trying to lock down those coming off contract next year already to stave off gws and that this will progress with earnest once trade week finishes and the dust settles.

Clark would be very high on the list and I'm sure he will be after a bigger slice of the pie given his importance to our team. Yes he didn't reach the heights of last year however I think his flexibility is crucial to the team more so with the loss of Brennan.

if he wanted to leave and it was more positional related (wants to lock down one possie) i don't see him having much of a different role in another team. What's attractive is his flexibility, i don't think he can escape that. Whatever team he plays in he will be a floater between 2-3 positions rather than just a ruckman or just a forward or wingman.

 

[TigerTime88]

Rather trade Mitch Brown to the Blues for pick 18.

Pick 18 + 26 for Clark to the Eagles.

Pick 4 will still get an eliete midfielder or even a Sam Day this year.

Clark is good, if he had a similar year in 2010 to 2009 maybe pick 4 would be okish but ...................... he didn't.

Only 1 player at Brisbane is worth pick 4 to the Eagles, and it isn't Clark.

That is strange. I would go the other way and say Clarke is worth more than RIch. Big KPP who can play FF or Ruck and be an All Australian. Given WC need to a FF and ruck partner for Nic Nat in the future I would think Clarke would be ahead of Rich in line for pick 4.

 

[irel]

However, if there is some truth to it, will the Lions risk keeping him on the list and losing him next year to GWS for nothing? Being second fiddle behind Leuenberger in the ruck stakes and Brown and Fev in the forward line might be more factors for leaving than anything else going on behind the scenes.

What’s the panic pod. So what if he wants to go next year to the Suns?
At worst we will get two first round draft selections as a compensation. At best we will trade him to Freo or another club for more than two first round picks because next year there will be more clubs interested. We need to be calm, cool and collected and not panic. We don’t need to be reactive to this situation.

There have been plenty of players who have asked to be traded but never have and have remained at their original club for a long time. Including our own Ash. Twelve months is a long time in football.
Clark will also need to consider not to be out of contract beyond next year as well. Touch wood he does not get seriously injured or ill next year. An injured KP Player demanding high salary is not worth anything to anyone. There have been many instances where managers have held off signing contracts only to have their protégé seriously injured and the opportunity to secure a long term contract on reasonable pay has been lost.

Offcourse there is also the Des Headland situation as well. Had Des stayed with Brisbane he would now be a legend of the game instead he turned into shit because the environment and the grass actually turned out to be purple instead of green on the other side of the fence.

So my contention is that Brisbane does not have to do anything. Time and circumstance is in our favour. I’ll put my money on our club turning it around now that all these changes have been undertaken. Next year the Lions of 2010 will be consigned to history. Now that Collins and co. are gone, the medical and conditioning department overhauled, the football department strengthened, the psychologically weak weeded out and Voss receiving the support he needed, we will be a different proposition.
There are already signs that this is a new tighter, determined more resilient and focused administration. Gumby and his cronies are gone. Hopefully the incompetence has also followed them to their new destination.

 

[theGav56]

So Brissy keep him - get another year out of him and then get compensation from GWS .....it is hardly end of the world stuff

He wouldn't get more than a potential Freo trade of 1st round pick and a player from the AFL compo though as I read it. And yes, not 'end of the world stuff', but with their ruck stocks strong, and having Brown and Sideshow Bob locked in, the midfield (Palmer?) is where the rebuild will happen.

 

[western royboy]

I would have thought first rounder plus Palmer or else send Palmer to the GC for a first round pick as well.

IF he wants out and we cannot convince him to stay.

 

[Snuka]

He wouldn't get more than a potential Freo trade of 1st round pick and a player from the AFL compo though as I read it. And yes, not 'end of the world stuff', but with their ruck stocks strong, and having Brown and Sideshow Bob locked in, the midfield (Palmer?) is where the rebuild will happen.

Perhaps not...However I think the point that was trying to be made is that the Lions hold a lot of cards here. They can probably afford to push it another year with GWS since they will have first dibs on these sorts of players so Freo or whoever could still be forced to pay up for Clark. In this case the new team works in favour of the team losing the player. And if he has another similar year then he could be worth even more.

And I think Clark could be about as important to our future as any player on the list. I personally hope this rumour is BS. He is so good around the ground, can be a dangerous forward and runs all day. Perfect prototype of today's all round ruck.

 

[GordonBlue]

Been trying to work out what would get it done from our end.

Picks 4 and 26 for Clark and pick 10 - is that in the ballpark?

Probably ripping you off a little I suppose.

You do realise that Clark would be your best player right??? Absolutely ridiculous suggestion

 

[pod17]

For sure some good points you raise Irel.

I have a couple of concerns. Mitch has struggled with injury in the past and, if he were to get injured for a chunk of next year, this would likely reduce his value. Another scenario could be that he remains at the Lions, is disgruntled and as a result plays poor football again diminishing his worth on the open market.

As far as compensation goes yes we might get two first rounders but then again we might not. Mitch hasn't won a B and F, he hasn't been AA (although robbed last year) and wouldn't be on massive coin at the Lions on his current contract. If you compare that to Bock who had won a B and F, who had been AA and was probably on better money than Mitch we may get screwed and offered only one selection at the end of the first round. If he is deadset on leaving this is the year to get it done whilst he is under contract.

I totally agree the club looks to have taken some action which is very promising. As I posted before, lets hope this is junk anyway and Mitch is totally happy where he is.

 

[Thommo 42]

Anyone think this might be a variation of the old go home ploy? Clark's agent looking for an extension on big money (I would be shocked if we had not already approached all of the guys to extend past next year) and the agent puts out the story to the gullible journo. No real intention of leaving but the threat might be enough to put another couple of 100k on the contract.

Problem for Brisbane is that they have no room to move in this regard. Even if they wanted to pay him a bit more, they can't.

What’s the panic pod. So what if he wants to go next year to the Suns?
At worst we will get two first round draft selections as a compensation. At best we will trade him to Freo or another club for more than two first round picks because next year there will be more clubs interested.

You are kidding yourself if you think compensation for losing Clark to GWS would get you 2 first round picks. A pick at the end of the first round would be the compensation. He would need to be AA and poll Top 5 in next years Brownlow for that to improve!

You won't get 2 first round picks for him from any other club either, not a hope in hell.

 

[Hollow Knight]

You won't get 2 first round picks for him from any other club either, not a hope in hell.

A top 10 pick and a later first round pick would not be unrealistic at all.

If he has another year like 2009 in 2011, that goes up again.

 

[irel]

You are kidding yourself if you think compensation for losing Clark to GWS would get you 2 first round picks. A pick at the end of the first round would be the compensation. He would need to be AA and poll Top 5 in next years Brownlow for that to improve!

You won't get 2 first round picks for him from any other club either, not a hope in hell.

OK, sure, fine, whatever you say.
Pretty similar position to Didak/Collingwood/Port situation of a few years back. Collingwood held their nerve and Didak still at Collingwood, AA and potentially a premiership player.

 

[whatboutbob]

I am always fascinated by the "He's not that great so we're not gonna pay that much, but we are absolutely desperate to get him...just...you know...cos.".

 

[Snuka]

Problem for Brisbane is that they have no room to move in this regard. Even if they wanted to pay him a bit more, they can't.



You are kidding yourself if you think compensation for losing Clark to GWS would get you 2 first round picks. A pick at the end of the first round would be the compensation. He would need to be AA and poll Top 5 in next years Brownlow for that to improve!

You won't get 2 first round picks for him from any other club either, not a hope in hell.

If you say it enough, it makes it true Thommo?

It's become pretty clear that no one on BF or in the media really has any idea what Brissie's cap looks like.

So the money they we would have paid Rischi, Brennan, Selwood next year is just gone is it? If we want to make simplistic statements based on little knowledge, let's just give him Selwood's wage and then were done with it...I can't fathom that Brisbane would have planned for the former 2 to leave this year. Both their salaries would have been planned into next years cap....and no matter how much you would like to think we ****ed up that bad, i'm not sure you can come to the conclusion that we would have 'planned' to be over the cap by this much.

Agreed we won't get that much in compensation, I still think that with GWS in the game, it will drive up the value of all players and puts the Lion's in a good bargaining position.

 

[irel]

A top 10 pick and a later first round pick would not be unrealistic at all.

If he has another year like 2009 in 2011, that goes up again.

If a Collingwood supporter had any credibility on our board it was Thomo. Unfortunately for whatever reason he morphed into your typical Collingwood flog a while back and now his contribution is of no more value than your typical Collingwood Troll that blows in here occasionally to throw shit.

I wonder what his valuation of Didak of a few years ago when Port Adelaide was heavily interested would have been? Would he have valued Didak as an end of round one compensation only?

 

[whatboutbob]

C'mon Irel, lay off the Bay13 terms.

 

[Thommo 42]

A top 10 pick and a later first round pick would not be unrealistic at all.

If he has another year like 2009 in 2011, that goes up again.

If he has another year like 2009, he might get to that level. But a single figure pick, plus a pick in the teens is overs, way overs.

Chris Judd + Pick 36 got Pick 3, Kennedy and Pick 20 from Carlton.

Only the absolute elite of the competition can generate two first round picks in a trade. There are probably only 10 blokes in the comp tops that would get that sort of deal.

OK, sure, fine, whatever you say.
Pretty similar position to Didak/Collingwood/Port situation of a few years back. Collingwood held their nerve and Didak still at Collingwood, AA and potentially a premiership player.

How is it in any way similar?

Didak didn't want to leave and we didn't want to trade him. Stevens wanted to come to Collingwood and we were happy to have him, but not at much expense. Port got the shits and lost him for free.

 

[Hollow Knight]

If he has another year like 2009, he might get to that level. But a single figure pick, plus a pick in the teens is overs, way overs.

Chris Judd + Pick 36 got Pick 3, Kennedy and Pick 20 from Carlton.

Which basically meant pick 3+4+20.

Pick 9 and 18 is a fair drop off that. And that is where I think Mitch lies.

 

[irel]

C'mon Irel, lay off the Bay13 terms.

Cheers Bob. For a minute there I forgot where I was.

 

[whatboutbob]

Cheers Bob. For a minute there I forgot where I was.

Lol. Easily done atm.

 

[Thommo 42]

I wonder what his valuation of Didak of a few years ago when Port Adelaide was heavily interested would have been? Would he have valued Didak as an end of round one compensation only?

When they wanted him in 2002, he was a 2nd year player but had been drafted at Pick 3.

He would have remained at the value of a single figure pick if for some reason he wanted to leave, or we wanted to trade him.

Clark is a bit older than Didak was, and at this stage is a more valuable commodity than Didak was in 2002. However, 2 first round picks is not realistic in a standard trade and most certainly not in the AFL Compensation scheme. The AFL Compensation declares the first round pick as 'marquee player'. Clark, while being an extremely valuable commodity, does not fit this criteria in any way.

If his 2011 form was similar to that of 2010, I'd imagine if he went to the GWS, he would get you an end of first round pick. If it was closer to 2009 form, given his age, draft position and recent form, I'd guess it would be a pick immediately following your first round pick. This value would then be determined by when you choose to use it and what sort of year you have in that year.

I think he is a gun, but the cold reality is that rarely does a player EVER generate 2 first round picks in a trade. Even Freo at their very worst, in a trade criticised heavily since (but not at the time) traded Pick 8 + fringe player for Tarrant. Now we can all make fun of Tarrant, but at the time he was 26, AA and a 5 time leading goalkicker. Clark would hold better value than he did, but clubs are more wary of trades involving early picks now than they were then (especially Freo)

 

[Thommo 42]

Which basically meant pick 3+4+20.

Pick 9 and 18 is a fair drop off that. And that is where I think Mitch lies.

a 2nd round pick went the other way.

You might get something like 9 +18 if you package Clark up with a 2nd round pick as well.

 

[Hollow Knight]

a 2nd round pick went the other way.

Actually it was a very late third rounder iirc.