Looking ahead to 2024

[The Flying Belgian]

On the Rayner/Petracca comparison... I feel that Cam gets torn between being a good team player and backing himself in to change a game. He's an excellent assist player, but once he gives the ball he doesn't always stay involved in the play. He's not a cheap 1-2 merchant which is why his stats aren't as high as they could be. He often comes to a stop to dish off a handball, often impeccably-timed and is content to let others do their part. Someone like Petracca tends to carry the team on his back, perhaps a by-product of where Melbourne has come from and their list makeup. I think Cam could do with a being slightly more selfish.

 

[Mighty Lions]

On the Rayner/Petracca comparison... I feel that Cam gets torn between being a good team player and backing himself in to change a game. He's an excellent assist player, but once he gives the ball he doesn't always stay involved in the play. He's not a cheap 1-2 merchant which is why his stats aren't as high as they could be. He often comes to a stop to dish off a handball, often impeccably-timed and is content to let others do their part. Someone like Petracca tends to carry the team on his back, perhaps a by-product of where Melbourne has come from and their list makeup. I think Cam could do with a being slightly more selfish.

Every player in the AFL is expected to be a good team player...it's finding the balance to back yourself in situations when needed more so than changing a game off your own back. Bailey (rather than Cam) needs to become more team orientated in 2024 for us to be a grand final winning side. Rayner is tracking along nicely in my opinion. Almost 75% of our list will be better in 2024 simply because of their maturity as footballers grow....it's something that takes time and will never happen quickly.

 

[Section 5]

Fish mentions Rayner at the very end.
Basically, thinks he should stay forward.
9 minutes on the Suns & Lions

2023 season in review: Gold Coast and Brisbane - AFL Daily

Nat Edwards and Michael Whiting take a look at season 2023 of both Gold Coast and the Brisbane Lions. Subscribe to AFL Daily and never miss an episode. Rate and review wherever you listen to podcasts.

omny.fm

 

[rye]

Every player in the AFL is expected to be a good team player...it's finding the balance to back yourself in situations when needed more so than changing a game off your own back. Bailey (rather than Cam) needs to become more team orientated in 2024 for us to be a grand final winning side. Rayner is tracking along nicely in my opinion. Almost 75% of our list will be better in 2024 simply because of their maturity as footballers grow....it's something that takes time and will never happen quickly.

i thought bailey was much more of a team player in 2023 than he had been previously. his tackle numbers were up considerably on 2022 and although he did not kick as many goals as he did in 2022, he made up the difference through contributing significantly more goal assists for the team (37 goals + 8 assists in 2022 V 29 goals + 20 assists in 2023). just from the eye test he looked much more invested in team defence than he had been in previous seasons. not saying he still cant improve further in 2024, but i think he has made significant progress in his teamwork in 2023

my hope for 2024 is bailey can become more of a mid-forward than a forward-mid, especially whilst we have ashcroft on the sidelines. he will always have great forward craft, but if he can become a genuine part of the midfield rotation it would go a long way to helping us push for a flag. that game against sydney where he played majority on ball minutes and ended up with 25~ touches and 2 goals whilst having 11 score involvements showed how damaging he can be as a midfielder when hes on

 

[Dalions]

Fish mentions Rayner at the very end.
Basically, thinks he should stay forward.
9 minutes on the Suns & Lions

2023 season in review: Gold Coast and Brisbane - AFL Daily

Nat Edwards and Michael Whiting take a look at season 2023 of both Gold Coast and the Brisbane Lions. Subscribe to AFL Daily and never miss an episode. Rate and review wherever you listen to podcasts.

omny.fm

I am not sure I completely agree with Fish on this one.
Cam is extremely damaging when on ball and with our current set up in the midfield it will only ever be spits and spurts for Cam in there anyway, so I think it needs to be persisted with for Cam to spend at least 20-30% of game time in the middle to develop his game.
Because with injuries in game there is always a chance that there may be a time that Cam will need to spend significant time on ball.

 

[rye]

I am not sure I completely agree with Fish on this one.
Cam is extremely damaging when on ball and with our current set up in the midfield it will only ever be spits and spurts for Cam in there anyway, so I think it needs to be persisted with for Cam to spend at least 20-30% of game time in the middle to develop his game.
Because with injuries in game there is always a chance that there may be a time that Cam will need to spend significant time on ball.

rayner might not ever be a genuine midfielder, but he could be a stringer / bolton impact at centre bounce and then drift forward type. his stoppage craft at centre bounces is quite good

 

[Mighty Lions]

I am not sure I completely agree with Fish on this one.
Cam is extremely damaging when on ball and with our current set up in the midfield it will only ever be spits and spurts for Cam in there anyway, so I think it needs to be persisted with for Cam to spend at least 20-30% of game time in the middle to develop his game.
Because with injuries in game there is always a chance that there may be a time that Cam will need to spend significant time on ball.

Oh dear, not agreeing with Fish????

 

[Kernel Kurtz]

I agree that Cam probably needs to work on his stamina which should improve his consistency.

I think he’s always going to be high on list of favourite players of most Lions supporters, but he also can add some frustration. He was always compared to Petracca when he stated his career. For good reasons. High draft picks, powerful builds, dominated as juniors, almost identical height and weight. Petracca took a few years to find that turning point to mature, and Cam’s at about the same point now. Their early match stats were very similar.

I don’t think Cam should model himself on Petracca, but he can learn from his development, his role to play, and when to shift into his match winner gear. If anything, Cam has more tricks than Petracca. Great leap, great hands, and probably better burst speed. But he lacks the stamina to play for sustained periods in the midfield, therefore isn’t getting his stats up. As Jack Dyer used to say, “You’ve gotta be where the ball is, not where it ain’t”. He also tend to do the spectacular rather than the basics. Highlights reels don’t win games.

I want to join the annual bandwagon and say this is the breakout year for Cam. I hope it is. How much fun would it be seeing him be that 25 - 30 possession goal kicking midfielder? Bring on 2024.

Centre half forward then.
Never going to be a regular mid , therefore he is always going to be a gamble in there in the big games.
Put him where his natural talent will skyrocket him to be a grat player.

 

[Dalions]

Oh dear, not agreeing with Fish????

 

[Warwick]

Almost 75% of our list will be better in 2024 simply because of their maturity as footballers grow....it's something that takes time and will never happen quickly.

Mm perhaps. Feel most teams would expect natural progression of their squads. Not everyone improves.

It’s those teams that have key younger players reaching 40-60 games that tend to make the most gains.

 

[Mighty Lions]

Centre half forward then.
Never going to be a regular mid , therefore he is always going to be a gamble in there in the big games.
Put him where his natural talent will skyrocket him to be a grat player.

Too short for a Centre Half Forward. He might have a good leap but he needs a lot more than that. A good Center Half Back would play him like a fiddle. His natural talent is in the midfield however he needs to improve his tank which will happen providing he follows the people in the club that can help him improve. ie. diet, cardio, mind.

 

[Mighty Lions]

Mm perhaps. Feel most teams would expect natural progression of their squads. Not everyone improves.

It’s those

If you look at our list, it's got a very different history than most. We started with a very young list which climbed up the ladder very quickly and have stayed there now for 5 years. In that time they have gained experience's that other teams have not for their ages. Now the list are about to enter into their peak years as footballers along with plenty of experience (including finals) that again most teams do not have...very distinct advantage for our club.

 

[Section 5]

I am not sure I completely agree with Fish on this one.
Cam is extremely damaging when on ball and with our current set up in the midfield it will only ever be spits and spurts for Cam in there anyway, so I think it needs to be persisted with for Cam to spend at least 20-30% of game time in the middle to develop his game.
Because with injuries in game there is always a chance that there may be a time that Cam will need to spend significant time on ball.

I saw an interview late last year with Fagan when he was asked about Rayner: Who decides when Rayner goes into the midfield.

His answer was: We actually leave it to Cam to decide when he thinks the move is the right time.

 

[Dalions]

I saw an interview late last year with Fagan when he was asked about Rayner: Who decides when Rayner goes into the midfield.

His answer was: We actually leave it to Cam to decide when he thinks the move is the right time.

I must have missed that one.

 

[Tom14]

Every player in the AFL is expected to be a good team player...it's finding the balance to back yourself in situations when needed more so than changing a game off your own back. Bailey (rather than Cam) needs to become more team orientated in 2024 for us to be a grand final winning side. Rayner is tracking along nicely in my opinion. Almost 75% of our list will be better in 2024 simply because of their maturity as footballers grow....it's something that takes time and will never happen quickly.

You've been on this train for some time and I'm sure there is truth in it. But have to push back on Bailey needing to be more team oriented 'for us to be a grand final winning side.'

Without bailey kicking two spectacular and reasonably selfish goals in the first quarter we don't stay in that game, and at the end of the day we were less than a kick away from winning. We lost that game in the middle and frankly it took some ridiculous individual brilliance to make it so close.

Ultimately I don't expect rayner to do more than have a couple of match winning performances a year. One of those was in the qualifying final this year so that's pretty good.

 

[M Malice]

Who were our 3 mids in the centre square for the last ball up on Grand Final day after Joe's goal?.... I am too traumatised to watch it to find out.

 

[Tom14]

Who were our 3 mids in the centre square for the last ball up on Grand Final day after Joe's goal?.... I am too traumatised to watch it to find out.

Do you mean after Charlie's goal to put us in front? Dunks was next to De Goey, but slipped over so was behind by 5m and it was game over.

 

[Dalions]

Who were our 3 mids in the centre square for the last ball up on Grand Final day after Joe's goal?.... I am too traumatised to watch it to find out.

Other than live at the MCG on the day, I still haven’t re-watched the game.
When I got home and finally worked up the courage to sit down and watch it, started the recording and it only recorded 2mins of the pre-match spin.
I didn’t really want to watch it anyway.

 

[M Malice]

Do you mean after Charlie's goal to put us in front? Dunks was next to De Goey, but slipped over so was behind by 5m and it was game over.

I hope I am not having a Mandela effect moment... I do remember Charlie putting us in front but then we had the De Goey moment you mentioned and then the Jarrod Berry 50 meter brain fade... after that didn't Joe kick a goal to put us back within a goal with around a minute or so to go? I was wondering who was in the centre square after that Joe goal.

 

[Tom14]

I hope I am not having a Mandela effect moment... I do remember Charlie putting us in front but then we had the De Goey moment you mentioned and then the Jarrod Berry 50 meter brain fade... after that didn't Joe kick a goal to put us back within a goal with around a minute or so to go? I was wondering who was in the centre square after that Joe goal.

He did, in the middle after that goal was Dunks, Neale and JL - Berry won the clearance by spinning out of a tackle but then shanked the kick 35m high in the air to the 50m arc. Immediate result of that was the Neale free kick/bailey advantage call

 

[Lazza16]

Certainly a tease.

Numbers can look easy at times. If he could straighten up his attitude and endurance, find the ball 2 more times per quarter, he’d be a 25 possession mid.

If only this game was so easy!

I remember Russell Greene the former Hawk n Saint say that he would make sure he got at least x amount of disposals per qtr...can't recall the number maybe 5 and if he was behind he would push push push to make sure he got them.

 

[Section 5]

You've been on this train for some time and I'm sure there is truth in it. But have to push back on Bailey needing to be more team oriented 'for us to be a grand final winning side.'

Without bailey kicking two spectacular and reasonably selfish goals in the first quarter we don't stay in that game, and at the end of the day we were less than a kick away from winning. We lost that game in the middle and frankly it took some ridiculous individual brilliance to make it so close.

Ultimately I don't expect rayner to do more than have a couple of match winning performances a year. One of those was in the qualifying final this year so that's pretty good.

Agree on Bailey as goal kicking is part of his game style.
I wish Neal was more confident in kicking goals when he is withing scoring distance.
Luckily Orla decided to have a 5% shot on goal against Adelaide week 1 of the AFLW finals.
Difference being the ladies got a 2-point win.
Then there are players like Akermanis.

Commentators and most likely fans too, always have an opinion after the event.
If someone kicks a difficult goal everyone is happy.

It is only after they miss that some talk will turn towards "not team oriented play".
Clearly so and so was sitting unattended, and it should have been passed to them.

There are defiantly times that a pass is needed instead of a shot on goal on the run.
However, i don't think it is in general an issue throughout the AFL, Lions or with Bailey.

I have always been of the opinion you may as well stuff up a kick on goal then stuff up a pass to a teammate in the vicinity of goal.

 

[Berrygood]

I saw an interview late last year with Fagan when he was asked about Rayner: Who decides when Rayner goes into the midfield.

His answer was: We actually leave it to Cam to decide when he thinks the move is the right time.

I remember seeing that interview too. That's great trust and belief put onto Cam by the coach. Good for Cam too, to be given that responsibility, to be given some ownership in the direction of the game. I actually like that for him. Confidence, leadership, responsibility, all traits that will make him a better, more mature, more intelligent player. I hope that continues next season. I reckon the more he does it, the better player we will see.

 

[3KZ is Football]

Yep, I've mentioned it before but A grade/elite endurance has a large genetic component to it, no doubt Cam can improve his endurance but he is never going to be an Ed Langdon or Steele Sidebottom gut runner or even close to it.

At best Rayner looks like our version of Jake Stringer.

Cameron Rayner and Jake Stringer AFL Stats Comparison

Cameron Rayner and Jake Stringer AFL Stats Comparison.

www.footywire.com

 

[twhowler]

No idea if this is still the rule, but this suggests cat b need a LTI but the LTI list now is only a 6 week commitment. So we would presumably start the season with Doedee and Ashcroft on that list meaning Brain could play in the opening 6 rounds at least, and at that point the club should know if one or both of Doedee / Ashcroft have another 6 weeks at least until playing.

At least that is my reading of it?

AFL tweaks long-term injury list eligibilty to give clubs greater flexibility

Players will miss a minimum of six rounds, not six weeks once placed on long-term injury list

www.afl.com.au