Coach Clarkson has left the building

[flinchfree]

It was a pretty poor plan if Mitchell decided he would go to Collingwood in 2022.

I think you're mis-understanding who was doing the planning.
Was Clarko re-upped last year when he asked to be? Answer is no.
Would the Club have made that decision not believing that was likely the end for Clarko? No
Did Clarko have a good working relationship with Senior management at the Club the last few years? No
Did the Hawthorn Football Club ask Sammy to get out of his contract at the WCE EARLY to come back as an assistant? Yes
Was there a reason Hawthorn did this? Yes
Would Sam have been given the reasoning? Yes
Would Clarko have to have been on board with the reasoning? Yes
In fact, as it was Clarko who pushed for Sam to return, and with all the above being understood, do you think Clarko knew what was in the works? Yes

And lastly, though Sam was more than likely to have been told he was in a good position to be the next head Coach of the HFC - he obviously hadn't been PROMISED the position while he was being evaluated from within the last 2 seasons. And most certainly the timeline Sam would have expected that to happen was at the end of 2022.
That said, the HFC did not PANIC in responding to Sam being offered the position at Collingwood, they knew amongst themselves that he was their preferred choice but needed to make that a SPOKEN proposition once a CERTAIN senior coaching job was offered by the Magpies.

You know what made this whole thing ugly? Clarko's giant sized ego.
Had Clarko decided at the meeting with JK and Reeves that Sam being the next coach was all that was important, and that however the Club and he could quietly and honorably achieve that was ALL THAT MATTERED, then the whole leaking and ugly headlines would have never happened.
The Club did nothing but publicly speak with great respect for Clarkson, and this could have looked entirely well planned and positive should Al have chosen that to be the desired route.
You know. Always Hawthorn. Not, first Al, THEN Hawthorn.

Staggering that you and others continue to pimp for the Coach who made the changeover uncomfortable and ugly, because you believe he'd earned the right to make himself more important because of TEAM AND CLUB ACHIEVEMENTS.

Many on here to continue to spruik such utter crap as Hawthorn wins are actually Clarko wins, and Hawthorn losses are shitty players.
It's plain disgusting.

For me, while you're at Hawthorn, ALL you are is a custodian for acting in a way that furthers the aspirations of the Hawthorn Football Club.
The better you do it, and the longer you do it, and the more honorably you do it, the better you'll be remembered.

But I LOVED me some Allan Jeans. A Man amongst men.
But you know who won all those 80's Cups? The ****ing TEAM.

Time for the team to start doing what they are born to do and start winning again.
If Sam can facilitate that, great.
When it looks like he won't, next man up.

 

[Manila_Hawk]

flinchfree ....

In my opinion (stress .. my opinion), I think that you have absolutely nailed the series of events and the ego.

Clarko had got too big for his boots. And threw his toys out of the cot when people stopped fawning over him.

 

[HairyO]

I think you're mis-understanding who was doing the planning.
Was Clarko re-upped last year when he asked to be? Answer is no.
Would the Club have made that decision not believing that was likely the end for Clarko? No
Did Clarko have a good working relationship with Senior management at the Club the last few years? No
Did the Hawthorn Football Club ask Sammy to get out of his contract at the WCE EARLY to come back as an assistant? Yes
Was there a reason Hawthorn did this? Yes
Would Sam have been given the reasoning? Yes
Would Clarko have to have been on board with the reasoning? Yes
In fact, as it was Clarko who pushed for Sam to return, and with all the above being understood, do you think Clarko knew what was in the works? Yes

And lastly, though Sam was more than likely to have been told he was in a good position to be the next head Coach of the HFC - he obviously hadn't been PROMISED the position while he was being evaluated from within the last 2 seasons. And most certainly the timeline Sam would have expected that to happen was at the end of 2022.
That said, the HFC did not PANIC in responding to Sam being offered the position at Collingwood, they knew amongst themselves that he was their preferred choice but needed to make that a SPOKEN proposition once a CERTAIN senior coaching job was offered by the Magpies.

You know what made this whole thing ugly? Clarko's giant sized ego.
Had Clarko decided at the meeting with JK and Reeves that Sam being the next coach was all that was important, and that however the Club and he could quietly and honorably achieve that was ALL THAT MATTERED, then the whole leaking and ugly headlines would have never happened.
The Club did nothing but publicly speak with great respect for Clarkson, and this could have looked entirely well planned and positive should Al have chosen that to be the desired route.
You know. Always Hawthorn. Not, first Al, THEN Hawthorn.

Staggering that you and others continue to pimp for the Coach who made the changeover uncomfortable and ugly, because you believe he'd earned the right to make himself more important because of TEAM AND CLUB ACHIEVEMENTS.

Many on here to continue to spruik such utter crap as Hawthorn wins are actually Clarko wins, and Hawthorn losses are shitty players.
It's plain disgusting.

For me, while you're at Hawthorn, ALL you are is a custodian for acting in a way that furthers the aspirations of the Hawthorn Football Club.
The better you do it, and the longer you do it, and the more honorably you do it, the better you'll be remembered.

But I LOVED me some Allan Jeans. A Man amongst men.
But you know who won all those 80's Cups? The ******* TEAM.

Time for the team to start doing what they are born to do and start winning again.
If Sam can facilitate that, great.
When it looks like he won't, next man up.

Thats a lot of excuses. So why didnt Sam get told to go to Collingwood?

Clarko coaches 2022 as per his contract. During 2022 Hawks perform a proper coach search. Something they havent done in 18 years so probably need to do right.

Of course they got spooked. Otherwise why the stupid transition plan which lasted all of 3 weeks once Mitchell decided he should get his way 14 months before he was actually coach ? And why would the young players be given so much power in being able to complain?

Lyon was right when he said they should have been ignored and the senior players consulted. It was a balls up and Clarko had every right to do what he did. The club was happy to undermine him, to let Mitchell undermine him and let the young players undermine him. It was a disgraceful way to treat him.

He should have just been let go and paid out and all the fuss and embarrassment avoided. Kennett screwed up royally.

 

[Rushed_Behind]

FFS he’s gone. This is the hawthorn football club. Not the Clarkson football club.
Time to get behind Sam the new coach of the hawthorn football club. When all these coaches like the ones before them are worm food this club will still be around.

 

[Yardie]

FFS he’s gone. This is the hawthorn football club. Not the Clarkson football club.
Time to get behind Sam the new coach of the hawthorn football club. When all these coaches like the ones before them are worm food this club will still be around.

I'm 100% behind Sam.

But I don't have to agree with the process that got us the result. They are two separate things.

 

[Yardie]

I think you're mis-understanding who was doing the planning.
Was Clarko re-upped last year when he asked to be? Answer is no.
Would the Club have made that decision not believing that was likely the end for Clarko? No
Did Clarko have a good working relationship with Senior management at the Club the last few years? No
Did the Hawthorn Football Club ask Sammy to get out of his contract at the WCE EARLY to come back as an assistant? Yes
Was there a reason Hawthorn did this? Yes
Would Sam have been given the reasoning? Yes
Would Clarko have to have been on board with the reasoning? Yes
In fact, as it was Clarko who pushed for Sam to return, and with all the above being understood, do you think Clarko knew what was in the works? Yes

And lastly, though Sam was more than likely to have been told he was in a good position to be the next head Coach of the HFC - he obviously hadn't been PROMISED the position while he was being evaluated from within the last 2 seasons. And most certainly the timeline Sam would have expected that to happen was at the end of 2022.
That said, the HFC did not PANIC in responding to Sam being offered the position at Collingwood, they knew amongst themselves that he was their preferred choice but needed to make that a SPOKEN proposition once a CERTAIN senior coaching job was offered by the Magpies.

You know what made this whole thing ugly? Clarko's giant sized ego.
Had Clarko decided at the meeting with JK and Reeves that Sam being the next coach was all that was important, and that however the Club and he could quietly and honorably achieve that was ALL THAT MATTERED, then the whole leaking and ugly headlines would have never happened.
The Club did nothing but publicly speak with great respect for Clarkson, and this could have looked entirely well planned and positive should Al have chosen that to be the desired route.
You know. Always Hawthorn. Not, first Al, THEN Hawthorn.

Staggering that you and others continue to pimp for the Coach who made the changeover uncomfortable and ugly, because you believe he'd earned the right to make himself more important because of TEAM AND CLUB ACHIEVEMENTS.

Many on here to continue to spruik such utter crap as Hawthorn wins are actually Clarko wins, and Hawthorn losses are shitty players.
It's plain disgusting.

For me, while you're at Hawthorn, ALL you are is a custodian for acting in a way that furthers the aspirations of the Hawthorn Football Club.
The better you do it, and the longer you do it, and the more honorably you do it, the better you'll be remembered.

But I LOVED me some Allan Jeans. A Man amongst men.
But you know who won all those 80's Cups? The ******* TEAM.

Time for the team to start doing what they are born to do and start winning again.
If Sam can facilitate that, great.
When it looks like he won't, next man up.

The club nearly ****ed this up and were lucky that they were able to pull a Bradbury.

You come across as having some deep hatred of Clarkson. I can't for the life of me work out why.

 

[Rushed_Behind]

I'm 100% behind Sam.

But I don't have to agree with the process that got us the result. They are two separate things.

The process was messy and not handled well. But every party involved didn’t handle it well. I’m not getting involved with % of blame on each party, that’s fruitless.

Reading this thread reads like some posters follow Clarkson not the footy club.

 

[Rushed_Behind]

The club nearly f’ed this up and were lucky that they were able to pull a Bradbury.

You come across as having some deep hatred of Clarkson. I can't for the life of me work out why.

I don’t think so. More so he/she is able to be a little more critical rather than a fanboi

 

[Yardie]

The process was messy and not handled well. But every party involved didn’t handle it well. I’m not getting involved with % of blame on each party, that’s fruitless.

Reading this thread reads like some posters follow Clarkson not the footy club.

Some people just want the black and white version. But it's all just a lot of grey.

 

[Rushed_Behind]

Some people just want the black and white version. But it's all just a lot of grey.

Maybe the black and white version would be Sam in a black and white polo and HFC paying $900k to a coach stinking it up for the best part of 3 years. Personally don’t put a lot of weight into how we finished this season.

We saw what the demons and bulldogs could do when fully switched on. I’ll take some positives out of the results but for me when the whips were cracking at the start of the season we were putrid and have been for a while. A change was needed. Embrace it. The details after the fact aren’t important.

 

[Yardie]

Maybe the black and white version would be Sam in a black and white polo and HFC paying $900k to a coach stinking it up for the best part of 3 years. Personally don’t put a lot of weight into how we finished this season.

We saw what the demons and bulldogs could do when fully switched on. I’ll take some positives out of the results but for me when the whips were cracking at the start of the season we were putrid and have been for a while. A change was needed. Embrace it. The details after the fact aren’t important.

I think you may be confusing me with others. I'm all in for the change.

I was on the Nash train early and wasn't happy with Clarkson playing him forward when he was being played as a midfielder at BHH. There certainly was some level of breakdown occurring when it was reported from training that Sam was asking Nash why was he training with the forwards.

 

[2OLD 2SLOW]

flinchfree ....

In my opinion (stress .. my opinion), I think that you have absolutely nailed the series of events and the ego.

Clarko had got too big for his boots. And threw his toys out of the cot when people stopped fawning over him.

Massively disagree.
If I'm going to play the game of pin the blame on the donkey - I'm going to go straight to the donkey (Jeff Kennett).

Putting all the blame on Clarko and his ego dismisses (or ignores) the fact that he was contracted to the end of 2022.
Contracted. Not a verbal agreement or something jotted down on a napkin - he was contracted, by the club. To be THE coach.
Clarko's big mistake was expecting this contract to be honoured, and hoping that he would be renewed beyond 2022.

I don't know about you, but if my employer jilted me mid-contract, I'd struggle to be Mr Magnanimous. If my employer was Jeff Kennett, with his history of douche-baggery, I'd be apoplectic - and I wouldn't have been able to stand with him at a press conference, for a start.

Seems a bit unrealistic to me for fans to expect an AFL coach (by definition driven, competitive, stubborn creatures) to "put the club first" or somehow be "cool with it" when they're getting the arse. If you want to win premierships, get a coach like Clarko and expect him to be pissy when you get rid of him. If you want a coach whose cool with being ditched for a younger model, get the Dude.

<iframe src="https://giphy.com/embed/TL6poLzwbHuF2" width="480" height="354" frameBorder="0" class="giphy-embed" allowFullScreen></iframe><p><a href="">via GIPHY</a></p>

 

[HedgeFund]

Massively disagree.
If I'm going to play the game of pin the blame on the donkey - I'm going to go straight to the donkey (Jeff Kennett).

Putting all the blame on Clarko and his ego dismisses (or ignores) the fact that he was contracted to the end of 2022.
Contracted. Not a verbal agreement or something jotted down on a napkin - he was contracted, by the club. To be THE coach.
Clarko's big mistake was expecting this contract to be honoured, and hoping that he would be renewed beyond 2022.

I don't know about you, but if my employer jilted me mid-contract, I'd struggle to be Mr Magnanimous. If my employer was Jeff Kennett, with his history of douche-baggery, I'd be apoplectic - and I wouldn't have been able to stand with him at a press conference, for a start.

Seems a bit unrealistic to me for fans to expect an AFL coach (by definition driven, competitive, stubborn creatures) to "put the club first" or somehow be "cool with it" when they're getting the arse. If you want to win premierships, get a coach like Clarko and expect him to be pissy when you get rid of him. If you want a coach whose cool with being ditched for a younger model, get the Dude.

<iframe src="https://giphy.com/embed/TL6poLzwbHuF2" width="480" height="354" frameBorder="0" class="giphy-embed" allowFullScreen></iframe><p><a href="">via GIPHY</a></p>

The Dude abides.

The Clusterfark that was our botched handover is probably 70% the fault of Kennett and 30% Clarkson.

Two massive egos - one the greatest coach our club has ever had and the other a big mouth embarrassment of a president.

Clarkson owes us nothing and if he ends up turning Gold Coast into a viable onfield entity with a 5 year / $1m + contract then he deserves every penny the AFL pays him.

Sam has been elevated a year too early, and will have to adjust quickly. He will need to tap into experience around him, especially Hickmott and Collins, and it’s a blow that we have just lost another great assistant in McRae (who would’ve been a greater mentor

 

[KermitJagger]

Massively disagree.
If I'm going to play the game of pin the blame on the donkey - I'm going to go straight to the donkey (Jeff Kennett).

Putting all the blame on Clarko and his ego dismisses (or ignores) the fact that he was contracted to the end of 2022.
Contracted. Not a verbal agreement or something jotted down on a napkin - he was contracted, by the club. To be THE coach.
Clarko's big mistake was expecting this contract to be honoured, and hoping that he would be renewed beyond 2022.

I don't know about you, but if my employer jilted me mid-contract, I'd struggle to be Mr Magnanimous. If my employer was Jeff Kennett, with his history of douche-baggery, I'd be apoplectic - and I wouldn't have been able to stand with him at a press conference, for a start.

Seems a bit unrealistic to me for fans to expect an AFL coach (by definition driven, competitive, stubborn creatures) to "put the club first" or somehow be "cool with it" when they're getting the arse. If you want to win premierships, get a coach like Clarko and expect him to be pissy when you get rid of him. If you want a coach whose cool with being ditched for a younger model, get the Dude.

<iframe src="https://giphy.com/embed/TL6poLzwbHuF2" width="480" height="354" frameBorder="0" class="giphy-embed" allowFullScreen></iframe><p><a href="">via GIPHY</a></p>

We've rehashed this conversation so many times that the story itself is lost in the hyperbole.

The club did NOT refuse to honour his contract, he was still going to be head coach until the end of next year under the proposed succession plan. Regardless of what you think of the succession plan, that's the way it was going to work out - and that was a decision driven by the fact that Buckley shit the bed and was removed from his role sooner than anyone would have expected. Clarko's contract was up in 2022, and all likelihood never going to be extended beyond that.

Clarko is not blameless in this. He and his management chose to use this situation to get a better deal from the club, because he didn't want to follow through with it. Personally I have a problem when the coach decides to be selfish because he believes his contract should be extended ad-infinitum even when he's not getting the results from the team that he should be.

"If my employer jilted me mid-contract, I'd struggle to be Mr. Magnanimous" - one of the major parts of being on a contract is that your future contracts are heavily performance driven, and we were second last when the decision was made. I don't feel as though you have any right to complain if you're not performing to a level that befits your contract and your salary, but maybe that's just me. We could have lost Sam, and we may have still been terrible under Clarkson in 2022 with the same issues and the situation would be lambasted even worse.

Kennett is not a perfect president and truth be told I want him gone too, but I'm absolutely sick of the holy devoted of the Church of Clarkson on this board absolving him of any blame when it comes to how this panned out. He could have still coached out next year if he wanted, before being replaced, and hell if he didn't want to be replaced he could have had the club playing better football and maybe I'd share the outrage.

 

[KermitJagger]

I swear this is what people think when they talk about Jeff Kennett in this thread

 

[flinchfree]

The club nearly f’ed this up and were lucky that they were able to pull a Bradbury.

You come across as having some deep hatred of Clarkson. I can't for the life of me work out why.

Don't. Hate. Clarko. At. All.
I think it's laughable, based on everything I typed, to suggest there was no plan.
I think it's ridiculous, knowing that a plan was en route, by all parties, to place ALL the blame on the Club.
Clarko made the exit as publicly dirty as he could.
I don't forgive him for that.

You know who's been let go by the Club over 100 years of footy.
So very many. And a lot of them, less than salubriously.
Dermott nearly gave a spleen for it. Dipper a lung.
You know what Dermott got? An offer to play for $150K incentive based.
You know what he didn't do on the way out? Burn the place down.

Personally, I reckon that's what Clarko has done.
I don't hate him for it, I just don't respect him for it.
Others here continue to suggest he 'earned' the right to make it about him.
That players, I couldn't give a **** how old, felt like there was a non cooperative feel to the partnering of Sam and Clarko in the transition.
Who do I put that on??????
Clarko.
He was gone in just over a year, but couldn't play less fiddle and empower the new guy by sublimating his ego enough to allow that to happen. I don't see that as great leadership, I see that as a leader needing to be the central figure regardless of what's good for the team.
How do you think the rest of the team felt when Clarko mentioned a half a dozen players he felt a real responsibility to?
Good right?

And I'm a team guy. Not a glorifying the one type of guy.
And if Sam is the same, as soon as he's not winning he will be on the nose too.
Much like Kennett.
Jeff's been the same stupid mug for his entire time at the Club, but winning made everyone be ok with his behavior.
Not so much while were losing right?

Always Hawthorn.

 

[Yardie]

Don't. Hate. Clarko. At. All.
I think it's laughable, based on everything I typed, to suggest there was no plan.
I think it's ridiculous, knowing that a plan was en route, by all parties, to place ALL the blame on the Club.
Clarko made the exit as publicly dirty as he could.
I don't forgive him for that.

You know who's been let go by the Club over 100 years of footy.
So very many. And a lot of them, less than salubriously.
Dermott nearly gave a spleen for it. Dipper a lung.
You know what Dermott got? An offer to play for $150K incentive based.
You know what he didn't do on the way out? Burn the place down.

Personally, I reckon that's what Clarko has done.
I don't hate him for it, I just don't respect him for it.
Others here continue to suggest he 'earned' the right to make it about him.
That players, I couldn't give a fu** how old, felt like there was a non cooperative feel to the partnering of Sam and Clarko in the transition.
Who do I put that on??????
Clarko.
He was gone in just over a year, but couldn't play less fiddle and empower the new guy by sublimating his ego enough to allow that to happen. I don't see that as great leadership, I see that as a leader needing to be the central figure regardless of what's good for the team.
How do you think the rest of the team felt when Clarko mentioned a half a dozen players he felt a real responsibility to?
Good right?

And I'm a team guy. Not a glorifying the one type of guy.
And if Sam is the same, as soon as he's not winning he will be on the nose too.
Much like Kennett.
Jeff's been the same stupid mug for his entire time at the Club, but winning made everyone be ok with his behavior.
Not so much while were losing right?

Always Hawthorn.

Thanks for the explanation. Totally get where you are coming from and much respect.

 

[HairyO]

We've rehashed this conversation so many times that the story itself is lost in the hyperbole.

The club did NOT refuse to honour his contract, he was still going to be head coach until the end of next year under the proposed succession plan. Regardless of what you think of the succession plan, that's the way it was going to work out - and that was a decision driven by the fact that Buckley sh*t the bed and was removed from his role sooner than anyone would have expected. Clarko's contract was up in 2022, and all likelihood never going to be extended beyond that.

Clarko is not blameless in this. He and his management chose to use this situation to get a better deal from the club, because he didn't want to follow through with it. Personally I have a problem when the coach decides to be selfish because he believes his contract should be extended ad-infinitum even when he's not getting the results from the team that he should be.

"If my employer jilted me mid-contract, I'd struggle to be Mr. Magnanimous" - one of the major parts of being on a contract is that your future contracts are heavily performance driven, and we were second last when the decision was made. I don't feel as though you have any right to complain if you're not performing to a level that befits your contract and your salary, but maybe that's just me. We could have lost Sam, and we may have still been terrible under Clarkson in 2022 with the same issues and the situation would be lambasted even worse.

Kennett is not a perfect president and truth be told I want him gone too, but I'm absolutely sick of the holy devoted of the Church of Clarkson on this board absolving him of any blame when it comes to how this panned out. He could have still coached out next year if he wanted, before being replaced, and hell if he didn't want to be replaced he could have had the club playing better football and maybe I'd share the outrage.

He would be head coach except for Mitchell running the draft, trades, retirements at the end of 2021, and being in charge of match selection in 2022.

That sounds awfully like the Carlton board and Teague to me.

 

[Rushed_Behind]

 

[KermitJagger]

He would be head coach except for Mitchell running the draft, trades, retirements at the end of 2021, and being in charge of match selection in 2022.

That sounds awfully like the Carlton board and Teague to me.

You've literally made those things up and can provide no evidence that was going to be the case.

Either way, if Clarko would have preferred be coach for 2022 and get an extension perhaps he should have had us playing better football.

 

[HairyO]

You've literally made those things up and can provide no evidence that was going to be the case.

Either way, if Clarko would have preferred be coach for 2022 and get an extension perhaps he should have had us playing better football.

I though the decision had already been made....

Also both Clarko and Mitchell had talked about Mitchell's role and Caro talked about it too.

The big complaint of the players is they didnt know whether Clarko or Mitchell were in charge. Kennett told us that when giving his reason for Clarko being walked.

Surprising you missed all this. It was in the media a lot.

 

[KermitJagger]

I though the decision had already been made....

Also both Clarko and Mitchell had talked about Mitchell's role and Caro talked about it too.

The big complaint of the players is they didnt know whether Clarko or Mitchell were in charge. Kennett told us that when giving his reason for Clarko being walked.

Surprising you missed all this. It was in the media a lot.

Oh I wasn't aware that a complete delineation of roles and responsibilities was published and referred to, because you seem to have the role charters in front of you.

Anyway, praise be faultless Clarko and all that. Strike he down the devil Kennett.

 

[HairyO]

Oh I wasn't aware that a complete delineation of roles and responsibilities was published and referred to, because you seem to have the role charters in front of you.

Anyway, praise be faultless Clarko and all that. Strike he down the devil Kennett.

Yes. They talked about the roles. That is what the consultants were brought in for. To help agree on them.

Clarko didnt like Mitchell taking more and more of his roles.

Seriously. It was in the news a fair bit.

 

[Mrzohs]

Kennett got spooked by Mitchell talking about Collingwood. There is no way what happened was even remotely planned.

Correct, we brought Mitchell and his young family back from Perth, appointed him as the senior coach at Boxhill to have long term success in the VFL.

 

[Brant]

Kennett got spooked by Mitchell talking about Collingwood. There is no way what happened was even remotely planned.

Why does Kennett have a Board & a Football Department if he can run the whole thing from his mobile?