Cloke = Trade Bait.

[Elite]

Absolutely but there is no way the bulldogs would accept that as a straight swap. We'd probably have to throw in a pick. Unfortunately, it is well known now that he can't kick at goal, and his currency has begun to go down. Soon we will get nothing.

Tarrant wasn't any better at goal kicking, everyone knew he was poor in front of goal, yet I think we did better out of that trade.

As long as supporters like the ones on this board exist who keep telling Eddie he's doing a great job, our club will be swimming in circles for ever.

Oh come on!
Suggesting Eddie is doing a bad job is going a bit far now, everyone knows our club was a dump.

there are a few players who fit this bill in your team now (Namely: O'bree, Thomas, Fraser, Rocca). Players who are considered hard working, and absolutely adored by Mick Malthouse, but make a large section of your fanbase cringe. Changing coaches might be a big step in the right direction for the pies.

You are comparing Thomas and Rocca to Licca?!?!
It's tryuly amazing what some people will say......
I've always held the opinion that Licca wasn't the most talented, hard worker, but turned it over a bit and always seemed to get caught holding the ball.
But to put Rocca and Thomas on the same level, and to an extent Fraser, based on talent is weird.


Cloke is a very good player, someone definitely needs to fix his goal kicking, but the fact that he has the confidence to still take a shot, just means that when he actually becomes a goal kicker, he will have a mental edge over other forwards.

 

[G.O.B]

Cloke is a very good player, someone definitely needs to fix his goal kicking, but the fact that he has the confidence to still take a shot, just means that when he actually becomes a goal kicker, he will have a mental edge over other forwards.

This post is noted as an example in the dictionary for the word delusional.

"when he becomes a goal kicker".....????.....could you give us an indication as to when that may occur and also illustrate exactly what he's been trying to do for the last 3-4 years?

"he will have a mental edge over other forwards"....what?..you mean the other forwards who have been kicking to a somewhat superior standard from the start of their career. Are they going to wilter in the shadow of the amazing exploits of Trav kicking them from anywhere on the ground.

FFS people, we're not talking about an amateur who has a problem with long shots or from acute angles.
We're talking about a highly paid professional who regularly struggles to kick even the simplest of shots.
A player who continually wastes the good work of others further up the field with some of the most insipid examples of goal kicking ever seen on an AFL ground.

He either gets this aspect of his game right and soon or his position as a key forward for the CFC MUST be reassesed by those in charge of giving this club every opportunity to win a Premiership.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

This post is noted as an example in the dictionary for the word delusional.

"when he becomes a goal kicker".....????.....could you give us an indication as to when that may occur and also illustrate exactly what he's been trying to do for the last 3-4 years?

"he will have a mental edge over other forwards"....what?..you mean the other forwards who have been kicking to a somewhat superior standard from the start of their career. Are they going to wilter in the shadow of the amazing exploits of Trav kicking them from anywhere on the ground.

FFS people, we're not talking about an amateur who has a problem with long shots or from acute angles.
We're talking about a highly paid professional who regularly struggles to kick even the simplest of shots.
A player who continually wastes the good work of others further up the field with some of the most insipid examples of goal kicking ever seen on an AFL ground.

He either gets this aspect of his game right and soon or his position as a key forward for the CFC MUST be reassesed by those in charge of giving this club every opportunity to win a Premiership.

ding ding ding ding ding

 

[shawthing09]

Calm down.

Point 1 - We will never trade T.Cloke. Not under Malthouse, and not under Buckley.

Point 2 - He is not too slow to play CHB. If you honestly believe this please explain to me how he burns his opponent on the lead so often?

Point 3 - He will not be dropped because you don't fix goal kicking issues in the reserves. Furthermore he is a good player that is important to our team. At most his position will be re-jigged in 2010.

Point 1- Agreed

Point 2-He hardly ever burns defenders on the lead. He has the first step being the foward making the lead and gets the ball at a fairly high point making it hard for a defender to reach he almost never gets an uncontested mark as a result of being too quick for his defender. On the rare occasion he does it's more then likely a combo of 3 things A) his extra endurance and workrate, B) he loses his defender in traffic or C) His defender lets him go on the long lead and zones of and stays back in the defensive 50

Point 3- He probably won't be dropped but it's not just a matter of goal kicking. We have tried to regig a lot over the course of a year and we still haven't find a role where he can be relied upon to have an impact. He has been lost playing the deep / traditional CHF role and struggled to get his hands on it.

His goal kicking makes every one nervous about having him playing deep and when he goes out on the long leads and plays the wing type role he gets a lot of the ball but his field kicking makes it very hard for him to find a target inside 50 unless we have a big Rocca esque pressence.

I don't think he will get dropped but I hardly think he is undroppable or that there is nothing to be gained by dropping him.

 

[shawthing09]

Considering the savage attack he sustained pre season and the subsequent suicide by the attacker then someone firing a bullet into Trav's house I'm surprised he isn't bouncing off walls in a rubber room

He just needs to put this season behind him and get some expert help with his goal kicking technique and then you have one of the gun young CHF's in the land

His field and goal kicking issues have been on going since day one of his career and is the main issue stopping him from being able to have a regular impact on games.

He was down on form last year too for very similar reasons. When he goes searching he struggles to hit targets when he stays in between he gets lost. He hasn't really been given a chance to play as a traditional FF and I am guessing part of the reason behind that is a lack of confidence in his goal kicking.

 

[Old Spice]

If he is dropped, and told he'll be selected again when he fixes it to a point where it is satisfactory, maybe that will fix it.

A combo of BT and the club psychologist would help Trav, but I certainly think picking up form in the 2's is not out of the question at all. There's got to be standards at the club and bad form can be contagious if it's allowed to linger.

 

[shawthing09]

No doubt but it's much worse when his confidence is down and the pre season incidents must have kicked the crap out of that

Not arguing that at all. I just think through out the year a lot of people had been putting his poor form purely down to that and assuming that when he got over that he'd be a force again and the fact is he wasn't last year and he has on going problems with his playing ability stopping him from being a reliable number one foward at the moment.

 

[smiddaz123]

A combo of BT and the club psychologist would help Trav, but I certainly think picking up form in the 2's is not out of the question at all. There's got to be standards at the club and bad form can be contagious if it's allowed to linger.

From memory St Kilda did it with a few players, I can only recall one of them, and that's Dal Santo, and I doubt it's a coincidence that he's played his best year to date in 2009. It may have even been at the opening bounce on Sunday when he put his head over the ball in a way that he never would've a year or two ago.

Cloke is still a good contributor to the side, and in our best 22. But dropping him would'nt be because he wouldn't be in our best 22, because he would be. It's about getting the best out of him, and tbh, I'm running out of other potential ideas.

Nobody can tell me Cloke's kicking can't be far, far better than it currently is. There has to be a way to improve it properly.

 

[Nardz]

From memory St Kilda did it with a few players, I can only recall one of them, and that's Dal Santo, and I doubt it's a coincidence that he's played his best year to date in 2009. It may have even been at the opening bounce on Sunday when he put his head over the ball in a way that he never would've a year or two ago.

Cloke is still a good contributor to the side, and in our best 22. But dropping him would'nt be because he wouldn't be in our best 22, because he would be. It's about getting the best out of him, and tbh, I'm running out of other potential ideas.

Nobody can tell me Cloke's kicking can't be far, far better than it currently is. There has to be a way to improve it properly.

when does collingwood ever make a statement at the selection table? NEVER.

 

[Optimax]

when does collingwood ever make a statement at the selection table? NEVER.

To name two

we have dropped Rocca and Licuria, we have suspended two of our best players for the rest of a season

 

[Old Spice]

Credit does last a long time at Collingwood.

It was definitely Dal Santo who got dropped, not to mention Ball and Hudghton / Maguire not getting back in as certs.

I reckon we can point to many players on our list who have dropped the slack 3 weeks on end at least.

 

[Nardz]

To name two

we have dropped Rocca and Licuria, we have suspended two of our best players for the rest of a season

the suspension thing was for disciplinary reasons. i'm talking about performance.


if you're talking about rocca this year then he hasnt really been in our best 22. if you're talking about licca at the end of 2006/7 or whenever it was then he was also borderline not in our best 22.

i don't see either of those as statements.

a statement would be dropping cloke as has been mentioned above and telling him he won't be coming back until while he is a liability in our forward 50.

a statement would be dropping didak after his insipid performance last week (wouldnt do it in finals though) and tell him he won't be coming back until he starts putting his body on the line and doing more team things and less fancy shit that more often than not doesn't come off

stkilda dropped milne and dal santo last year. this year luke ball. they raise their standards/expectations of performance and the whole team benefits.

i would also put thomas on this list.. earlier in the year and last year his form was horrendous but he was still getting games.

O'bree i would DEFINITLY have on this list.

 

[Optimax]

the suspension thing was for disciplinary reasons. i'm talking about performance.


if you're talking about rocca this year then he hasnt really been in our best 22. if you're talking about licca at the end of 2006/7 or whenever it was then he was also borderline not in our best 22.

i don't see either of those as statements.

a statement would be dropping cloke as has been mentioned above and telling him he won't be coming back until while he is a liability in our forward 50.

a statement would be dropping didak after his insipid performance last week (wouldnt do it in finals though) and tell him he won't be coming back until he starts putting his body on the line and doing more team things and less fancy shit that more often than not doesn't come off

stkilda dropped milne and dal santo last year. this year luke ball. they raise their standards/expectations of performance and the whole team benefits.

i would also put thomas on this list.. earlier in the year and last year his form was horrendous but he was still getting games.

O'bree i would DEFINITLY have on this list.

No he dropped rocca eve of his 150th

Dropped lica a fortnight after saying he would never do it

Dropped cloke when he got found out

Dropped woey the same

Thomas' hasnt been in horrendous anything this year, in fact his average disposals have gone up this year as has his defensive work

 

[otfc42]

You = Drunk

Yup...agreed....Aren't we supposed to be classed as "Supporters"...?

Lose the first final (and yes it hurt) and so many people turn into detractors of the club....WTF...??

To the greatest football club of all time....I applaud you, I support you and....kick arse this weekend...!!!!!

 

[WinOrLoseILoveEm]

Here we have a forward that cannot kick a goal to save his life.. about as useful as a gun without bullets.

he was okay today around the ground, but he is a forward. he cannot kick goals. this makes him pretty much useless to us moving forward.

we should shop him around.. see what we can get for him.. Bulldogs need a big forward and have plenty of midfielders to part with.. maybe we can structure a deal for ryan griffen so we can well and truly pack o'bree's bags? win win for all involved..

We need some extra strength up back. He wont be as quick as Tarrant, a succesful example of such a change, but will certainly add some grunt to tackle some of the stronger forwards

 

[Didak Wine]

we need the next gun chf in the country to come to collingwood. don't know how you guys are gonna get it done, don't wonna know the details, use whatever means you have at your disposal but get us that kid.

if i was eddie, i'd have a recruiter in the States talking to basketball dropouts. i'd have recuiters working as cleaners in schools watching the kids playing at lunch time. I'd have agent 38 in a letter box in russia watching kids at athletics trials. "Get me that kid" i'd say. "He's out there, go and get him". I'd have a team of scientists working on a new robot chf.

surely the emirates can afford that kind of operation. we need to broaden the way we look at this. if not, let's get etihad to sponsor us, those guys make their own money.

did i mention i feel deflated

 

[Nardz]

No he dropped rocca eve of his 150th

Dropped lica a fortnight after saying he would never do it

Dropped cloke when he got found out

Dropped woey the same

Thomas' hasnt been in horrendous anything this year, in fact his average disposals have gone up this year as has his defensive work

the fact that you have to go back a good 5 years says alot..

 

[Damon_3388]

If we traded him, who exactly can we realistically get that's better right now and is just as young? Most key forwards that are better than Cloke right now are either A) Older than him, or B) Likely considered 'untradeable' by their respective clubs. Even those who have the potential to be better than Cloke in the future aren't most likely considered 'untradable' until they've developed and their current club can see whether they'll reach their potential or not.

 

[Nardz]

If we traded him, who exactly can we realistically get that's better right now and is just as young? Most key forwards that are better than Cloke right now are either A) Older than him, or B) Likely considered 'untradeable' by their respective clubs. Even those who have the potential to be better than Cloke in the future aren't most likely considered 'untradable' until they've developed and their current club can see whether they'll reach their potential or not.

who said he had to be a key forward and who said he had to be just as young?

everyone seems to go on about how good our young Key forwards are maybe one of them can step up to the plate.. they couldnt do worse inside forward 50 than cloke..

 

[Pie eyed]

when does collingwood ever make a statement at the selection table? NEVER.

Malthouse drops players all the time.
What you meant to say was "When does Collingwood ever make a statement by dropping the player I want dropped?"

Cloke has been in our best 22 every game he has played, but you are right that he has not played to the potential he showed in his Copeland year.

He is still young for KPP and has had a fair bit outside football to deal with this season.
To assume that this has no effect on on-field performance would be very naive.

 

[Nardz]

Malthouse drops players all the time.
What you meant to say was "When does Collingwood ever make a statement by dropping the player I want dropped?"

dropping a fringe player is not making a statement.
i won't go into that again.

 

[Damon_3388]

who said he had to be a key forward and who said he had to be just as young?

Well I think it might leave a bit of a hole if we don't trade him for a like player. As for the age part, I'd like to think we could get someone with some longevity left if we're trading away a talented 22-year-old key forward who isn't injury-prone and has probably a decade of footy left in him.

everyone seems to go on about how good our young Key forwards are maybe one of them can step up to the plate.. they couldnt do worse inside forward 50 than cloke..

But would they provide the other around-the-ground stuff that Cloke does, particularly the 7 marks per game and 4 inside 50s per game? I don't know. CHF isn't just about kicking goals, a lot of it is being a target and a linkman into the forward line, and Cloke does this very well. The only real query/problem I can see with Cloke is his kicking at goal. Apart from that, I don't think there's many other better key forward around his age or younger right now. And if we already had someone who was genuinely better than Trav, I'd think the coaching staff would have already recognised it, and they would have been playing CHF for us at Cloke's expense.

 

[Snag Breac]

we need the next gun chf in the country to come to collingwood. don't know how you guys are gonna get it done, don't wonna know the details, use whatever means you have at your disposal but get us that kid.

if i was eddie, i'd have a recruiter in the States talking to basketball dropouts. i'd have recuiters working as cleaners in schools watching the kids playing at lunch time. I'd have agent 38 in a letter box in russia watching kids at athletics trials. "Get me that kid" i'd say. "He's out there, go and get him". I'd have a team of scientists working on a new robot chf.

surely the emirates can afford that kind of operation. we need to broaden the way we look at this. if not, let's get etihad to sponsor us, those guys make their own money.

did i mention i feel deflated

I think I have read that somewhere lately. I like your creative thinking.

 

[Old Spice]

I'm not for trading Cloke. I believe his problems in front of goals are eminently fixable and I really like everything else he brings in terms of tackling, marking and leading. I think he could be a great if these issues are ironed out, a la early Riewoldt.

I do, however, think that there needs to be a shift in terms of dropping players, including sacred cows, who don't perform. Medhurst certainly should have been dropped for McCaffer who I believe could have played that small forward role with aplomb. Johnson for Clarke is another that springs to mind. Wood instead of Josh another. Leigh Brown...

A lot of the changes made currently are developing players for other developing players. I really believe we have to get stone-cold on all players - like Ross Lyon has done with Dal Santo, Ball and Hudghton.

 

[Nardz]

I'm not for trading Cloke. I believe his problems in front of goals are eminently fixable and I really like everything else he brings in terms of tackling, marking and leading. I think he could be a great if these issues are ironed out, a la early Riewoldt.

I do, however, think that there needs to be a shift in terms of dropping players, including sacred cows, who don't perform. Medhurst certainly should have been dropped for McCaffer who I believe could have played that small forward role with aplomb. Johnson for Clarke is another that springs to mind. Wood instead of Josh another. Leigh Brown...

A lot of the changes made currently are developing players for other developing players. I really believe we have to get stone-cold on all players - like Ross Lyon has done with Dal Santo, Ball and Hudghton.

reiwoldts kicking was never quite as bad as cloke.. when reiwoldt lined up there was a chance he'd kick it.

with cloke there is basically no chance.

Medhurst shouldnt even have been brought back in when he was. he didn't do much in the reserves and made it back on reputation alone.

he has had a very poor season, hopefully with a solid preseason he can get back to his best because he is where we can get most improvement next season