Toast Club Champion 2019 - Brad Crouch!

[1970crow]

Yeah I’m turning on this issue largely because of that game and many other similar performances where they get 9 kicks and 200 handballs - stats look good but not much influence.

The worry thing about the GF was they were both fully fit and in excellent form going into the game.

Not Brad, his groins we’re cooked, was on his last legs. I worry about Matt more. It’s like we’ve decided that a successful midfield includes your best version of Thommo. Matt and Thommo are/were outstanding old fashioned rover types. No matter how outstanding at that role, I’m not convinced that their individual output is as advantageous to team success as it looks in isolation. But that’s a theory of mine, Im not yet wedded to it.

 

[1970crow]

That Grand Final is still a nightmare. Should have won given our form.

Had no chance given the 22 we were forced to select and Richmond’s hot form and home ground advantage.

 

[1990crow]

Had no chance given the 22 we were forced to select and Richmond’s hot form and home ground advantage.

True about selection. Otten playing killed us.
And Smith injury hurt.
Inability to control the ball going forward was the main problem.
That and umpiring in first half left a lot to be desired. Martin would get sneezed on and it was a free kick.

 

[kulak]

GWS bought in hardarses like Cornes and Brogan too.

Agreed. Two more guys they brought in to set the culture, rather than to win games.

 

[Mutineer]

‘Captain Invisible’ leads flops

REPUTATIONS are made on Grand Final day and a host of players wearing yellow and black enhanced theirs in Richmond’s thumping win against the Crows.

www.news.com.au

ADELAIDE CROWS

2. Brad Crouch (rating: 5) — Certainly had a crack but you could count the number of telling possessions he had on one hand.

3. Riley Knight (3) — Looked completely out of his depth, missing an early shot at goal and then shying from the moment from then on.

4. Josh Jenkins (1) — A contested third quarter mark at least gave Crows fans reassurance he was, in fact, alive. But he promptly kicked the ball directly to a Tigers opponent and that summed up an absolute howler of a game.

6. Jake Lever (4) — Unsuited to playing against the dynamic, small Tigers forward line. Exposed for pace at times and didn’t kick the ball particularly well.

8. Jake Kelly (4) — Appeared to be hampered by a hamstring issue and never made a mark on the game.

9. Rory Sloane (7) — Sparked the Crows with two first quarter goals and was among their better players, but still would have expected more from himself.

11. Paul Seedsman (4) — Was meant to be a relatively solid replacement for injured Brodie Smith. Proved otherwise.

12. Daniel Talia (5) — Can’t really fault the key defender — unless you want to compare him to his opposite number in Rance?

13. Taylor Walker (2) — Kicked two goals but they came after the game was all but decided. Otherwise resembled Captain Invisible. Compared to Riewoldt — who just found a way to impact a game unsuited to the tall forwards — he was a disappointment.

14. David Mackay (3) — Showed why he’s a player Crows fans have never trusted. Move him on.

15. Kyle Hartigan (3) — Filled his personal blooper reel at a furious rate early in the game before recovering slightly.

16. Luke Brown (5) — Did his job like he always does apart from one marking contest where he was left one-out on Martin.

18. Eddie Betts (3) — Finished with just one goal after being robbed of one by the umpires and blanketed by Grimes.

20. Hugh Greenwood (5) — Surprise packet in the first quarter where he was close to the best player on the ground but struggled physically from that point.

21. Rory Atkins (2) — Another youngster who not only failed to rise to the occasion, but shrunk from it. Decision-making was shocking.

22. Andy Otten (1) — Unfortunately found himself on Rance and that was a mismatch of epic proportions. When he wasn’t outmarked he often found a way to give away a free kick.

23. Charlie Cameron (4) — Another who appeared to be bothered by an early injury, perhaps a calf complaint. Didn’t have his usual explosiveness and was a non-factor.

24. Sam Jacobs (8) — Probably the Crows best. Clearly won the ruck duel against Nankervis. tried to get involved in attack and made some important interventions in defence.

26. Richard Douglas (5) — Put his head over the ball but didn’t play with any composure.

27. Tom Lynch (4) — Normally provides the polish for a team that was crying out for it in this game but failed to deliver.

29. Rory Laird (6) — In Adelaide’s best, but that wasn’t saying a lot in this game.

44. Matt Crouch (8) — Had a mountain of the footy and did his reputation no harm. Going to be a star for a long time.

 

[kulak]

‘Captain Invisible’ leads flops

REPUTATIONS are made on Grand Final day and a host of players wearing yellow and black enhanced theirs in Richmond’s thumping win against the Crows.

www.news.com.au

ADELAIDE CROWS

2. Brad Crouch (rating: 5) — Certainly had a crack but you could count the number of telling possessions he had on one hand.

Agree, this is a fair assessment.

 

[Tex200]

‘Captain Invisible’ leads flops

REPUTATIONS are made on Grand Final day and a host of players wearing yellow and black enhanced theirs in Richmond’s thumping win against the Crows.

www.news.com.au

ADELAIDE CROWS

2. Brad Crouch (rating: 5) — Certainly had a crack but you could count the number of telling possessions he had on one hand.

3. Riley Knight (3) — Looked completely out of his depth, missing an early shot at goal and then shying from the moment from then on.

4. Josh Jenkins (1) — A contested third quarter mark at least gave Crows fans reassurance he was, in fact, alive. But he promptly kicked the ball directly to a Tigers opponent and that summed up an absolute howler of a game.

6. Jake Lever (4) — Unsuited to playing against the dynamic, small Tigers forward line. Exposed for pace at times and didn’t kick the ball particularly well.

8. Jake Kelly (4) — Appeared to be hampered by a hamstring issue and never made a mark on the game.

9. Rory Sloane (7) — Sparked the Crows with two first quarter goals and was among their better players, but still would have expected more from himself.

11. Paul Seedsman (4) — Was meant to be a relatively solid replacement for injured Brodie Smith. Proved otherwise.

12. Daniel Talia (5) — Can’t really fault the key defender — unless you want to compare him to his opposite number in Rance?

13. Taylor Walker (2) — Kicked two goals but they came after the game was all but decided. Otherwise resembled Captain Invisible. Compared to Riewoldt — who just found a way to impact a game unsuited to the tall forwards — he was a disappointment.

14. David Mackay (3) — Showed why he’s a player Crows fans have never trusted. Move him on.

15. Kyle Hartigan (3) — Filled his personal blooper reel at a furious rate early in the game before recovering slightly.

16. Luke Brown (5) — Did his job like he always does apart from one marking contest where he was left one-out on Martin.

18. Eddie Betts (3) — Finished with just one goal after being robbed of one by the umpires and blanketed by Grimes.

20. Hugh Greenwood (5) — Surprise packet in the first quarter where he was close to the best player on the ground but struggled physically from that point.

21. Rory Atkins (2) — Another youngster who not only failed to rise to the occasion, but shrunk from it. Decision-making was shocking.

22. Andy Otten (1) — Unfortunately found himself on Rance and that was a mismatch of epic proportions. When he wasn’t outmarked he often found a way to give away a free kick.

23. Charlie Cameron (4) — Another who appeared to be bothered by an early injury, perhaps a calf complaint. Didn’t have his usual explosiveness and was a non-factor.

24. Sam Jacobs (8) — Probably the Crows best. Clearly won the ruck duel against Nankervis. tried to get involved in attack and made some important interventions in defence.

26. Richard Douglas (5) — Put his head over the ball but didn’t play with any composure.

27. Tom Lynch (4) — Normally provides the polish for a team that was crying out for it in this game but failed to deliver.

29. Rory Laird (6) — In Adelaide’s best, but that wasn’t saying a lot in this game.

44. Matt Crouch (8) — Had a mountain of the footy and did his reputation no harm. Going to be a star for a long time.

I think that the analysis you’re putting up here does 2 things:

1. it certainly supports a reasonable effort from Matt;
2. But it also highlights that Brad had no influence

In the end this thread is about Brad. What do we do with him do you think?

 

[Mutineer]

Agree, this is a fair assessment.

At the time pre-groin operation yes...

Was this also a fair assessment also?

44. Matt Crouch (8) — Had a mountain of the footy and did his reputation no harm. Going to be a star for a long time.

I think it is if the experiment the last couple of years of using Matty more as a midflelder/ link player is over and he's returned to doing what he's best at...an in and under contested extractor used to get the ball out to damaging users the likes Brodie Smith, Rory Atkins, Wayne Milera etc...

 

[Mr_Moogle]

‘Captain Invisible’ leads flops

REPUTATIONS are made on Grand Final day and a host of players wearing yellow and black enhanced theirs in Richmond’s thumping win against the Crows.

www.news.com.au

ADELAIDE CROWS

2. Brad Crouch (rating: 5) — Certainly had a crack but you could count the number of telling possessions he had on one hand.

3. Riley Knight (3) — Looked completely out of his depth, missing an early shot at goal and then shying from the moment from then on.

4. Josh Jenkins (1) — A contested third quarter mark at least gave Crows fans reassurance he was, in fact, alive. But he promptly kicked the ball directly to a Tigers opponent and that summed up an absolute howler of a game.

6. Jake Lever (4) — Unsuited to playing against the dynamic, small Tigers forward line. Exposed for pace at times and didn’t kick the ball particularly well.

8. Jake Kelly (4) — Appeared to be hampered by a hamstring issue and never made a mark on the game.

9. Rory Sloane (7) — Sparked the Crows with two first quarter goals and was among their better players, but still would have expected more from himself.

11. Paul Seedsman (4) — Was meant to be a relatively solid replacement for injured Brodie Smith. Proved otherwise.

12. Daniel Talia (5) — Can’t really fault the key defender — unless you want to compare him to his opposite number in Rance?

13. Taylor Walker (2) — Kicked two goals but they came after the game was all but decided. Otherwise resembled Captain Invisible. Compared to Riewoldt — who just found a way to impact a game unsuited to the tall forwards — he was a disappointment.

14. David Mackay (3) — Showed why he’s a player Crows fans have never trusted. Move him on.

15. Kyle Hartigan (3) — Filled his personal blooper reel at a furious rate early in the game before recovering slightly.

16. Luke Brown (5) — Did his job like he always does apart from one marking contest where he was left one-out on Martin.

18. Eddie Betts (3) — Finished with just one goal after being robbed of one by the umpires and blanketed by Grimes.

20. Hugh Greenwood (5) — Surprise packet in the first quarter where he was close to the best player on the ground but struggled physically from that point.

21. Rory Atkins (2) — Another youngster who not only failed to rise to the occasion, but shrunk from it. Decision-making was shocking.

22. Andy Otten (1) — Unfortunately found himself on Rance and that was a mismatch of epic proportions. When he wasn’t outmarked he often found a way to give away a free kick.

23. Charlie Cameron (4) — Another who appeared to be bothered by an early injury, perhaps a calf complaint. Didn’t have his usual explosiveness and was a non-factor.

24. Sam Jacobs (8) — Probably the Crows best. Clearly won the ruck duel against Nankervis. tried to get involved in attack and made some important interventions in defence.

26. Richard Douglas (5) — Put his head over the ball but didn’t play with any composure.

27. Tom Lynch (4) — Normally provides the polish for a team that was crying out for it in this game but failed to deliver.

29. Rory Laird (6) — In Adelaide’s best, but that wasn’t saying a lot in this game.

44. Matt Crouch (8) — Had a mountain of the footy and did his reputation no harm. Going to be a star for a long time.

This analysis is totally on point. Only thing I'd add is that Hartigan was one our more composed players on the day which puts into perspective just how much of a shocker our other players had.

 

[1970crow]

I think that the analysis you’re putting up here does 2 things:

1. it certainly supports a reasonable effort from Matt;
2. But it also highlights that Brad had no influence

In the end this thread is about Brad. What do we do with him do you think?

Trade Matt if one has to go. Brad’s about to start his second season uninjured having just won b&f first year back after a full season off. Still not seen his best yet. He has the speed and power thats required in modern footy. Matt a great accumulator, but Brad is the more important and better player.

 

[Mutineer]

I think that the analysis you’re putting up here does 2 things:

1. it certainly supports a reasonable effort from Matt;
2. But it also highlights that Brad had no influence

In the end this thread is about Brad. What do we do with him do you think?

It also highlights Brad's groins were still troubling him coming to the end of a long season in 2017, since reported he was getting jabbed to get on the field in 2017 supported by the fact he played zero games in 2018 and finally had surgery.
Coming off a gold jacket season and injury free season in 2019 most notably being his groin issues appear behind him now I would be retaining him if it's for reasonable money contract wise. All the signs are Brad is happy to stay in Adelaide and is loyal to the club?

 

[kulak]

At the time pre-groin operation yes...

Was this also a fair assessment also?

44. Matt Crouch (8) — Had a mountain of the footy and did his reputation no harm. Going to be a star for a long time.

I think it is if the experiment the last couple of years of using Matty more as a midflelder/ link player is over and he's returned to doing what he's best at...an in and under contested extractor used to get the ball out to damaging users the likes Brodie Smith, Rory Atkins, Wayne Milera etc...

Brad was very good in 2017 and through the finals series. Groins didn’t stop him then.

Look I think you are arguing as though people are wanting to drop Brad and delist him at the end of the year. I don’t think people are wanting that.

Some of us are questioning the wisdom of giving him a marquee 5 year contract. As an injury prone 27 year old for a rebuilding team and with no particular reputation as a model professional, being pretty good isn’t enough. I don’t think he clears the bar. And it would be better to get what value we can in a trade.

 

[Mutineer]

Brad was very good in 2017 and through the finals series. Groins didn’t stop him then.

Look I think you are arguing as though people are wanting to drop Brad and delist him at the end of the year. I don’t think people are wanting that.

Some of us are questioning the wisdom of giving him a marquee 5 year contract. As an injury prone 27 year old for a rebuilding team and with no particular reputation as a model professional, being pretty good isn’t enough. I don’t think he clears the bar. And it would be better to get what value we can in a trade.

A Big Footy "reputation" held by some on this board...

Injury prone in the past!!....how many games exactly did he miss in 2019 after he had the long overdue surgery to his troublesome groins, more a failure of our fitness/medical "professionals" than Brad himself?

You don't think he clears the bar? Well there were 40+ other players on our list that failed to clear that same bar and were out of the competition long before Brad in 2019!

 

[Southerntakeover]

Here's your answer, too many of our experienced players just did not turn up for the biggest game of their life.....using an "independent" in Robert Walls who is certainly not one for sugar coating performances. The Crouch's weren't the biggest problems and most certainly not Matt.

You're not really engaging with what has been said. The critique wasnt that he was bad, it was that they both got plenty of it and couldnt influence the result.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

A Big Footy "reputation" held by some on this board...

Injury prone in the past!!....how many games exactly did he miss in 2019 after he had the long overdue surgery to his troublesome groins, more a failure of our fitness/medical "professionals" than Brad himself?

You don't think he clears the bar? Well there were 40+ other players on our list that failed to clear that same bar and were out of the competition long before Brad in 2019!

View attachment 869978

I'll repeat for a rebuild you keep your quality mid age players & you trade older players who may be holding up the development of a younger player or are not important to the leadership of the team.

Brad is a keeper unless he wants crazy overs.

Simple!

 

[Mutineer]

You're not really engaging with what has been said. The critique wasnt that he was bad, it was that they both got plenty of it and couldnt influence the result.

Yeah well he had 21 other players out there with him that you could say exactly the same about...

 

[Golumless]

In the 2017 Grand Final the Crouch brothers combined for 66 disposals and we lost the game by nearly 50 points.

They aren't good enough to build a team around because when that team is failing (like in the grand final) they have next to no influence on the outcome.

The midfielders you build a team around have to be dominant forces like Nat Fyfe or Patrick Cripps

Lets not pretend Patrick Cripps hasn't had that issue as well. What was it, 47 disposals, and the record for contested possessions against us in 2019 to result in a 50 point loss, and a whole career as that type of player. Equally at this moment, Carlton haven't built a team around him.

There are probably only 3 midfielders who you could argue are a dominant force on the inside, as well as being able to influence the game with the ball in hand. Dangerfield, Martin and Fyfe. The rest are either one or the other. Get that and any rebuild gets much easier, but doable without. After all, two of those don't have premierships.

The question is more can we build a good midfield to work around the Crouches flaws and are both good enough to be around the AA mark year in year out. Matt you could argue definitely in the right scenario, though is very much Scott Thompson 2.0 so is rather expendable even if, just due to how specialised he is (and a nice marker for how poorly a side is performing, seeing just where he is sitting in a depth chart can show how dire it is). Brad, it comes down to if injuries have truly blunted him.

 

[Southerntakeover]

Yeah well he had 21 other players out there with him that you could say exactly the same about...

Do you actually think you're making a telling point right now?

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Yeah well he had 21 other players out there with him that you could say exactly the same about...

If all the side applied themselves like the Crouches on grand final day, the result would have been very different & Pyle would still be coaching us... but then again Birdbrain would still be at AFC.

 

[Golumless]

If all the side applied themselves like the Crouches on grand final day, the result would have been very different & Pyle would still be coaching us... but then again Birdbrain would still be at AFC.

I highly doubt that.

Pressure breaks sides and Richmond just hit that point. The only thing that could change the result is having McGovern fit in the forward line or alternatively replacing Otten with a fast small guy for pressure (though we didn't have one left) just to have a more optimal forward set up and to make a better fist of stopping their half back run.

 

[Southerntakeover]

Resources are not spread equally amongst a playing group. We're not making a decision about whether to give brad the equivalent of the salary cap divided by our list number.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Resources are not spread equally amongst a playing group. We're not making a decision about whether to give brad the equivalent of the salary cap divided by our list number.

How about you speak in simple English.

Are you suggesting we are struggling to stay under our cap wirh an experienced list, so should clear out our best & fairest.

Geez, Reid must be feeling good about himself.

 

[Doc_]

Our midfield is so vanilla its not funny. No spark at all.
1 of brad/matt/sloane in a team you look good with a good mix of other types around them. Think cotchin. He works out ok with the mix around him. But all 3 is diabolical. Especially as thats as deep as we bat. Its bit players after that.

 

[Thetrader15]

I thought it was a toss up between Matt Crouch and Rory Sloane for our best on the day.....And please don't come at me with the "Crouch" bullshit again Pete.

Go watch the replay and get back to me.

You might also be interested in Robert Walls ratings from that game.

AFL Grand Final: Robert Walls rates the players

Robert Walls rates the grand final players. Richmond's Trent Cotchin and Dustin Martin both got nines, just for starters.

www.theage.com.au

Matt Crouch
FOLLOWER
Crows best by a mile. Led the way with disposals, inside 50s, rebound 50s and contested possessions.

Rating: 8

Sam Jacobs
FOLLOWER
Battled manfully in the ruck with 45 hit outs.


Rating: 7

Rory Sloane
CENTRE
Excellent first half but little in final two quarters.


Rating: 7

Rory Laird
BACK
Great start but faded as game wore on.


Rating: 6

Brad Crouch
FOLLOWER
Got a bit of the ball, not much happened as continually buffered by Tigers midfield.


Rating: 5

Tom Lynch
FORWARD
Harassed all day and couldn't get normal flow going but tried extremely hard.

Rating: 5

Jake Kelly
EIC
Solid in defence but no flow in second half as all Crow defenders lost their nerve to attack.


Rating: 5




Jake Lever
BACK
Unable to breakaway from Jacob Townsend who hit him hard to cause fumbles.


Rating: 5

Luke Brown
HALFBACK
Good on Rioli early on but confidence shattered when outmarked by Dustin Martin in the second term.


Rating: 4

Kyle Hartigan
BACK
Solid but no attack, lost the dare to move the ball on quickly as game progressed.


Rating: 4

Paul Seedsman
HALFBACK
Simply not strong enough in contested situations.


Rating: 4

Richard Douglas
FORWARD
Too slow. Continually run down from behind.

Rating: 4

Hugh Greenwoods
EIC
Started like a house on fire but doused very quickly.


Rating: 4




Rory Atkins
CENTRE
Quiet in the midfield, well down on usual output.


Rating: 4

Charlie Cameron
HALFFOWARD
Looked overawed early. The Tigers pressure forced him into disposal error.


Rating: 4

David MacKay
CENTRE
Looked slow. Couldn't win contested ball in pressure situations.


Rating: 3

Taylor Walker
FORWARD
Shocking first half. Marginally better in the second half. Didn't stand up when needed.


Rating: 3

Riley Knight
EIC
Tried to tag Cotchin early but just couldn't hang on.


Rating: 3

Josh Jenkins
HALFFOWARD
Massive disappointment Too often waits for silver service, needs to fire when the heat is on.


Rating: 2

Daniel Talia
HALFBACK
Looked slow, gave no attack, just three disposals, probably his worst game of the season.


Rating: 2

Eddie Betts
HALFFOWARD
Probably his worst game of the season which was sad because he has been a shining light.


Rating: 2

Andy Otten
EIC
CAnother Crows tall who gave nothing when it counted. Not agile enough.


Rating: 2

Interesting to read 2.5 years on.

Too slow
Not agile enough
Too stagnant with the ball in defence

 

[Thetrader15]

Our midfield is so vanilla its not funny. No spark at all.
1 of brad/matt/sloane in a team you look good with a good mix of other types around them. Think cotchin. He works out ok with the mix around him. But all 3 is diabolical. Especially as thats as deep as we bat. Its bit players after that.

You think the midfield is vanilla this year?

That's why we moved on CEY, Greenwood, Douglas and Lyons over the last few years.

Now we have 2 slow inside mids in Rory and Matt, Brad has some breakaway speed and have thrown Jones, Smith and Milera in there.

Sure, we'd love Dangerfield, Fyfe and Martin in there, but give the new guys a few weeks to learn their stuff from a decent coaching group