List Mgmt. COLLINGWOOD Trade and F/A Discussion 2022-->

[Anzacday]

Key dates attached so we know what’s going on when.

• Friday 30 September at 9.00am

• AFL Restricted Free Agency and Unrestricted Free Agency Period commences

Monday 03 October at 9.00am

• AFL Trade Period commences – Players & Selections

Friday 07 October at 5.00pm

• Close of AFL Restricted Free Agency Offer and Unrestricted Free Agency Period.

Monday 10 October

• AFL Draft Nominations open (9am)
• AFL Restricted Free Agency Matching Offer 3 Day Period Ends (5pm)

Wednesday 12 October at 7.30pm

• AFL Trade Period closes – players and selections

Thursday 03 November at 9.00am

• AFL Delisted Player Free Agency Period (1) commences

Wednesday 09 November at 5.00pm

• AFL Delisted Player Free Agency Period (1) closes

Friday 11 November at 9.00am

• AFL Delisted Player Free Agency Period (2) commences

Tuesday 15 November by 5.00pm

• AFL Delisted Player Free Agency Period (2) closes
• AFL Trade Period closes – selections only

Monday 21 November by 3.00pm

• AFL Draft Nominations close

Monday 28 November at 7.10pm

• 2022 AFL Draft Round One (Venue TBC)
• Father/Son, Academy & NGA and Players Bidding opens.

Tuesday 29 November

• AFL Trade Period – selections only (5.45pm to 6.30pm)
• 2022 AFL National Draft Round two until completion (7pm)
• Rookie Upgrade Period opens (10pm)
• AFL Delisted Player Free Agency Period (3) commences (10pm)
• Rookie Upgrade Period closes (11pm)
• AFL Delisted Player Free Agency Period (3) closes (11pm)

Wednesday 30 November

• AFL Pre-Season Draft (3pm, online)
• AFL Rookie Draft (3.20pm, online)

Thursday 01 December by 4.00pm

• Final AFL Club List Lodgement

 

[GoldenMagpie16]

We are not losing degoey, simple As that

 

[Pedro]

Really?

Terms are outside financial values. I thought you just had to match the financial value for it to count. Does the AFL have anything to say about this?

Pretty sure he is correct. You have to match the entirety of the contract. Happy to be proven wrong of course

 

[Pedro]

Sydney’s midfield? Maybe they don’t have absolute game changers, but they have 3 very very good consistent performers in Parker, Mills & Warner. All 3 would be in our starting midfield and I would say 14 other teams starting midfield.

Papley, Franklin & Heeney would be their game changers.

Rowbottom is pretty handy too

 

[jonbe54]

Total commitment to the summit?
Most of us due to our love for the pies are looking at the Grundy deal in a glass half full way.
Grundy in his last game for us tore the bombers apart bog!
We would be in the G.F if we had a fit Grundy last week.
He has been our best consistent player barring his injury even with his 1 year form slump.

In my opinion there are 2 scenarios with the Grundy trade?
1.Dees pay for everything we get a second or third rounder.The fact we pay no Grundy tax for 5 years not a bad deal.

2 We pay 300k Grundy tax 5 years!
1. We get one first rounder+ mcstay depends how high the first rounder is? initially we loose but depends how good the first rounder is

2 ..2 first rounders for Grundy we pay 300k for Grundy +mcstay very good deal for us.

3. we pay Grundy tax for 5 years too dees with 0 first rounders + mcstay list managers should be sacked

It's all on the public record 12 you can accept fact or you can deny it.

 

[Everybody Panic]

Can you guys understand why so many people are confused with Grundys so called salary dump to the dees?
Or is there more too it them meets the eye?
Technically there is no salary dump why?
Grundy on 900k-1m , replacement Mcstay 5yr deal on at least 600k.
Too most of us we question the longertivity of the Mcstay deal? which runs as long as the Grundy deal.
So we still pay the same amount of money for a lesser player including 300k to dees every yr for 5 years.
Only benefit one first rounder?
Is there a possibility the Grundy deal will be worth 2 first rounders? just thinking here.Especially if we are paying 300k grundy tax for the next 5 years?

Looks then like no salary dump, but a good enough deal for us!
Grundy for mcstay +:2 first rounders with no salary dump

Grundy would have been worth 2 firsts in 2019. Not even close now. The problem is that you're comparing two players that play completely different roles.

Grundy vs Mcstay no doubt Grundy is a better player. But we already have Cameron who rucked us to a prelim. We don't have anyone at all that has played McStay's roll. So the club might be thinking 900k for Mcstay and Cameron is better than 900k for Grundy and Cameron (forward).

Then there's also the idea the club reportedly were into Mcstay well before Grundy was leaving. So it could well be want Cameron, Hill and Mitchell, rather than Grundy and Cameron (forward).

It's not about having the best player, but the best team.

 

[Brent24]

No they won’t. The Bowes contract is even worse than the Brodie one, GC are desperate to shed that $1.6m off the books. They’ll likely do it for one or two second rounders depending on how early/late they are.

2 seconds are close to the equivalent of a late first. My point was you can't just simplify it by saying De Goey for Bowes, 7 and 17. I would be shocked if pick 17 isn't around the mark on what you would have to pay for Bowes + 7.

So Bowes, with his huge contract and pick 7 for De Goey? No thanks.

 

[Prexm]

Not really. Depends if the suns are serious on 7. Grundy is gone.
So would be losing Jordy, not the absolute be all and end all as seen in prelim loss. Happy to keep him but could set our future if we let him go.
If st kilda coughed up two firsts and the suns are legit on pick 7 that 3 firsts for jordy.

Saints are so interested because he costs them nothing as a FA. If he opts for them and we match then it will be interesting but I doubt it gets that far. My preference this off season is keep the 25 that ran out in the finals. Bring in 2-3 first rounders depending what happens with Grundy and Henry and use our 3rd rounders to get experienced players in the hope that we get that bit better to go all the way next year.

 

[partypie]

Melb board think pick 34 and we pay as much as $300k per year will get it done.

If either Melbourne or their supporters really think they're trading out Jackson and pick 34 for two first round picks (or top-10 picks if their thoughts are still headed in that direction) and Grundy subsidised to the tune of $300k per year then they are out of their minds.

The way I look at Grundy is that he might be the first example of an NBA-style "rental" where Melbourne takes him on for the next year or two hoping he'll push them to another flag and then shift him on when they're ready to blow things up (maybe back home to SA when his $1m per year doesn't look anywhere near as bad as it does now).

 

[Gaspard]

I saw a post here proposing 12 additions to the list. That would be absolute carnage among our developing players. It would be good if we could keep the proposals within the bounds of reality.

 

[12kilos]

Grundy would have been worth 2 firsts in 2019. Not even close now. The problem is that you're comparing two players that play completely different roles.

Grundy vs Mcstay no doubt Grundy is a better player. But we already have Cameron who rucked us to a prelim. We don't have anyone at all that has played McStay's roll. So the club might be thinking 900k for Mcstay and Cameron is better than 900k for Grundy and Cameron (forward).

Then there's also the idea the club reportedly were into Mcstay well before Grundy was leaving. So it could well be want Cameron, Hill and Mitchell, rather than Grundy and Cameron (forward).

It's not about having the best player, but the best team.

Look at Grundys last gane for us, he at worst is worth a first and possibly a second. We are talking his overall career now
Agree with you on Mcstay , however i am trying to empasise mcstsy + 5 yrs on 600k Grundy to dees we pay 300k Grundy tax
no real salary dump

 

[jonbe54]

Look at Grundys last gane for us, he at worst is worth a first and possibly a second. We are talking his overall career now
Agree with you on Mcstay , however i am trying to empasise mcstsy + 5 yrs on 600k Grundy to dees we pay 300k Grundy tax
no real salary dump

5 years on 600k is a MEDIA STORY . . .

 

[Prexm]

I saw a post here proposing 12 additions to the list. That would be absolute carnage among our developing players. It would be good if we could keep the proposals within the bounds of reality.

Not including Carmichael for Roughead , 8 is looking like the favourite at the moment.

 

[JuniorB]

I saw a post here proposing 12 additions to the list. That would be absolute carnage among our developing players. It would be good if we could keep the proposals within the bounds of reality.

That many changes would negatively impact the culture we're developing.

 

[partypie]

How does this work Molly. Does the existing contract need to remain in place until it expires then renegotiate or can it be done straight away? And if a player is traded into the club with the intention of renegotiating the deal, is it a gentleman's agreement, is it in writing, I'm not sure because until a player is "officially" on your list, I assume you cant enter into any 'new or revised' contract with him?

Not so sure on this myself, while the AFL might be open to salary cap dump trades iirc they weren't too happy last time someone put a big figure on an incoming player and then renegotiated the deal to smooth out the total number over a longer period.

Now it wouldn't be the same situation in terms of securing band 1 compo of course and Bowes number is what it is, but I'd guess that some questions would be asked if an AFL club entered into a salary dump trade with pick 7 as the sweetner and then the club the player ends up at renegotiates his 2 x $800k deal to 3 x $530k, the latter of which I think most clubs with cap room who didn't consider themselves to be at the pointy end of the premiership race currently would at least look at if it were also going to bring them in pick 7.

TL;DR - I suspect any plan to renegotiate the players current deal would have to be put on the table as part of the trade itself just to keep everything above board, given the AFL is looking to loosen the restrictions around a trade being "fair" for both sides in terms of the exchange of players and picks where a salary dump may be needed.

 

[Apex36]

2 seconds are close to the equivalent of a late first. My point was you can't just simplify it by saying De Goey for Bowes, 7 and 17. I would be shocked if pick 17 isn't around the mark on what you would have to pay for Bowes + 7.

So Bowes, with his huge contract and pick 7 for De Goey? No thanks.

Two late seconds aren’t equivalent to a late first, and if you say “but points” give yourself an uppercut.

 

[Matt_352]

Big No on trading Jordy

 

[Everybody Panic]

Look at Grundys last gane for us, he at worst is worth a first and possibly a second. We are talking his overall career now
Agree with you on Mcstay , however i am trying to empasise mcstsy + 5 yrs on 600k Grundy to dees we pay 300k Grundy tax
no real salary dump

Can you imagine someone from a different club telling you that a player is worth a first round pick because "look at his last game for us"? Nevermind it wasn't a great game, just a huge last quarter. We would laugh them out the door. Grundy's 20/21 form might be worth a very late first round pick. FWIW I think we will get a first round pick but give something back as well, maybe future 3rd or something.

 

[manicpie]

If either Melbourne or their supporters really think they're trading out Jackson and pick 34 for two first round picks (or top-10 picks if their thoughts are still headed in that direction) and Grundy subsidised to the tune of $300k per year then they are out of their minds.

The way I look at Grundy is that he might be the first example of an NBA-style "rental" where Melbourne takes him on for the next year or two hoping he'll push them to another flag and then shift him on when they're ready to blow things up (maybe back home to SA when his $1m per year doesn't look anywhere near as bad as it does now).

Mlm

Big No on trading Jordy

What if he walks

 

[Everybody Panic]

Two late seconds aren’t equivalent to a late first, and if you say “but points” give yourself an uppercut.

100%. Point system is some of the dumbest shit the AFL has introduced.

 

[partypie]

That does not sound good. Rendall has always spoken highly of Hayes - so he must be good at something.

Kid has literally zero tank in terms of getting around the ground or putting in second efforts, usually has his hands on knees and blowing hard 10-15 minutes into the game from what I saw.

 

[partypie]

If he got through today's session he plays.

And that would be fair enough too - Reid has been very good for the Swannies this year.

Hayden McLean out of nowhere is an interesting selection, but I guess LMD has found the going a bit tough in his first two finals so they had to do something I guess.

 

[Matt_352]

Mlm

What if he walks

Well if he does then we force a trade as compo would not be sufficient and would be wiped by McStay which would effectively mean that its DeGoey for McStay, yuck.

 

[manicpie]

Well if he does then we force a trade as compo would not be sufficient and would be wiped by McStay which would effectively mean that its DeGoey for McStay, yuck.

Won't it look silly if we match after digging our heels in over behavioral clauses. I think the JDG camp knows that we can only get pick 17 for him and are using it to get rid of the clauses which tells me can't be trusted

 

[Jasper84]

Can you guys understand why so many people are confused with Grundys so called salary dump to the dees?
Or is there more too it them meets the eye?
Technically there is no salary dump why?
Grundy on 900k-1m , replacement Mcstay 5yr deal on at least 600k.
Too most of us we question the longertivity of the Mcstay deal? which runs as long as the Grundy deal.
So we still pay the same amount of money for a lesser player including 300k to dees every yr for 5 years.
Only benefit one first rounder?
Is there a possibility the Grundy deal will be worth 2 first rounders? just thinking here.Especially if we are paying 300k grundy tax for the next 5 years?

Looks then like no salary dump, but a good enough deal for us!
Grundy for mcstay +:2 first rounders with no salary dump

It's much more complex than "In McStay wage, out Grundy wage". The club are working on Total Player Payments as a whole for the year, not trading individual contracts. For instance, Grundy's deal is not likely to be the same every year of his contract, nor McStay's. Next year Grundy could be earning much more than the million we have averaged out, which might blow our cap out. Maybe year 2 several players are being paid on the high side causing TTP imbalance. Whereas McStay's contract might be structured to be on less than 500k in the early years building up to over 500k by the end.

Paying 300k of Grundy's contract is a consistent figure to factor into the Total Player Payments and is basically the same as what we pay the 40th guy on the list in his third year to play VFL. It's the equivalent of keeping a player like McMahon on the books for another year. It's really not as bigger deal as it's made out to be.

A lot of the angst on here seems to more about the perception of "losing the trade" than the actual financial restructuring. Otherwise we would never be comparing McStay and Grundy by any metric.

 

[partypie]

We'll take pick 23 on that one thanks.