List Mgmt. COLLINGWOOD Trade and F/A Discussion 2022-->

[Anzacday]

Key dates attached so we know what’s going on when.

• Friday 30 September at 9.00am

• AFL Restricted Free Agency and Unrestricted Free Agency Period commences

Monday 03 October at 9.00am

• AFL Trade Period commences – Players & Selections

Friday 07 October at 5.00pm

• Close of AFL Restricted Free Agency Offer and Unrestricted Free Agency Period.

Monday 10 October

• AFL Draft Nominations open (9am)
• AFL Restricted Free Agency Matching Offer 3 Day Period Ends (5pm)

Wednesday 12 October at 7.30pm

• AFL Trade Period closes – players and selections

Thursday 03 November at 9.00am

• AFL Delisted Player Free Agency Period (1) commences

Wednesday 09 November at 5.00pm

• AFL Delisted Player Free Agency Period (1) closes

Friday 11 November at 9.00am

• AFL Delisted Player Free Agency Period (2) commences

Tuesday 15 November by 5.00pm

• AFL Delisted Player Free Agency Period (2) closes
• AFL Trade Period closes – selections only

Monday 21 November by 3.00pm

• AFL Draft Nominations close

Monday 28 November at 7.10pm

• 2022 AFL Draft Round One (Venue TBC)
• Father/Son, Academy & NGA and Players Bidding opens.

Tuesday 29 November

• AFL Trade Period – selections only (5.45pm to 6.30pm)
• 2022 AFL National Draft Round two until completion (7pm)
• Rookie Upgrade Period opens (10pm)
• AFL Delisted Player Free Agency Period (3) commences (10pm)
• Rookie Upgrade Period closes (11pm)
• AFL Delisted Player Free Agency Period (3) closes (11pm)

Wednesday 30 November

• AFL Pre-Season Draft (3pm, online)
• AFL Rookie Draft (3.20pm, online)

Thursday 01 December by 4.00pm

• Final AFL Club List Lodgement

 

[partypie]

Melbourne would think the exact same thing with Grundy.

Except that they're not seeing it that way at all with Jackson departing. They're pretty desperate to shore up the ruck position and put themselves in a position to win a flag or two in the next few years. Context matters.

The Hawks were a battling team looking to shift their older players as you're mostly likely aware. Couldn't have picked out a more chalk-and-cheese situation if you'd tried to.

 

[Juan Ide]

Grundy for Freo's 2023 1st.
Henry and 42 for Geelong's 2023 1st.
Poulter for Frampton.
Our 2023 2nd for Fiorini and 25.
25 for Hill and 39.
47 for Mitchell.
48 for Hayes.

In: Mitchell, McStay, Hill, Fiorini, Frampton, Hayes, Pick 16, Pick 39

Out: Grundy, Henry, Poulter, TBrown, CBrown, McMahon, Madgen, Chugg

2023 picks: Our 1st, Freo's 1st, Geelong's 1st, Our 3rd, Our 4th

Best 22:

Howe Dean Maynard
Quaynor Moore Pendlebury
JDaicos Mitchell Sidebottom
NDaicos McStay Ginnivan
Elliott Mihocek McCreery
Cameron De Goey Crisp
Lipinski Adams Murphy Kreuger

EMG: Noble, Hoskin-Elliott, Johnson, Hill

In (from prelim): McStay, Adams, Mitchell, Kreuger, Dean

Out: Cox, Bianco, Johnson, Noble, Hoskin-Elliott

Cameron without Cox = Fish without water/chips. Doubt Mitchell will come to us unless as a completely free trade; and you're putting a great deal of faith in a zero-gamer to start at centre back before Murphy. Don't think Kreugs will make our best 22 either (except maybe as a sub). Otherwise a pretty good list, I'd say.

 

[whiskeytown]

Grundy for Freo's 2023 1st.
Henry and 42 for Geelong's 2023 1st.
Poulter for Frampton.
Our 2023 2nd for Fiorini and 25.
25 for Hill and 39.
47 for Mitchell.
48 for Hayes.

In: Mitchell, McStay, Hill, Fiorini, Frampton, Hayes, Pick 16, Pick 39

Out: Grundy, Henry, Poulter, TBrown, CBrown, McMahon, Madgen, Chugg

2023 picks: Our 1st, Freo's 1st, Geelong's 1st, Our 3rd, Our 4th

Best 22:

Howe Dean Maynard
Quaynor Moore Pendlebury
JDaicos Mitchell Sidebottom
NDaicos McStay Ginnivan
Elliott Mihocek McCreery
Cameron De Goey Crisp
Lipinski Adams Murphy Kreuger

EMG: Noble, Hoskin-Elliott, Johnson, Hill

In (from prelim): McStay, Adams, Mitchell, Kreuger, Dean

Out: Cox, Bianco, Johnson, Noble, Hoskin-Elliott

As far as theoretical trade scenarios go on here…

… without getting into the specifics of all that it proposed

… that’s a solid and thorough effort

 

[Apex36]

100%. Point system is some of the dumbest s**t the AFL has introduced.

No, it’s not. It’s a necessary tool that works for FS and Academy systems. The system isn’t dumb, just the people who use it to justify trades that don’t involve clubs that need points.

 

[LuckyLee]

If thats the case our list managers are crazy its a completely stupid deal!
I hope you are completely wrong becouse it becomes a colkingwood screw job

I hope I’m wrong too.
But if I were the Dees, I’d play hard-ball by offering pick 34 and then staring us down. Our cap pressures and trade priorities make me think that we’ll be the ones to blink.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Apex36]

I never said they were. 2 late seconds won't get you Bowes + 7 either though.

I think you might be surprised. GC don’t value picks more than cap space right now. Freeing up $1.6m in cap space over the next 2 years is worth way more than pick 7 to them. This is a deal where they’re basically rewarding a club for taking a potential bust player with an exorbitant salary off their hands. They’re not going to ask for much in return, definitely not a first rounder.

 

[Juan Ide]

As far as theoretical trade scenarios go on here…

… without getting into the specifics of all that it proposed

… that’s a solid and thorough effort

"Our 2023 2nd"? From where do we pluck this mythical beast, or am I missing something in the scenario planning?

 

[sr36]

I think it could be simplified a lot. You need a pick within 10. That's the discount. Brisbane would need a top 10 pick to get Ashcroft. We would have needed a top 14 pick for Daicos. Clubs trading away first round picks to avoid losing them is stupid. If you cant get the pick, you lose access to the player.

What would be the advantage of that? Seems to me that you'd still get the trading down when a bid came a few spots before a pick. Then you'd also have ridiculous amounts of in draft trading, as you don't know. B4 the draft which pick the kid will go. You'd also get bigger bargains.

 

[zhoung]

Im so confused as to why people think Grundy should give up 20-30% of his wages for the club. The club that he signed that contract at just 2? years ago. 30% potentially is a bunch of money to just throw away. The guy is 28 and is making enough cash that could help set him and any family has for a great life. No one else is expected to take that sort of wage decrease.

Just because you take advantage of another in a transaction and they agree to it doesn’t make it fair.
Sign bloated contract using Adelaide as leverage then perform well below knowing it’s all locked in means your performance is always going to be scrutinised against the size of the contract.
Noticeably now after using the go home factor in his favour he has no interest in going home.
If you do a deal (sell car with known mechanical issues) and take advantage of another party,
you know.
He knows he’s not worth the $$$$ yet its his money, am I right?
Says a lot about his integrity and his ME attitude when other well compensated individuals from other clubs are happy to sacrifice some personal gain for team succes.

 

[Lings of Geelong]

Cameron without Cox = Fish without water/chips. Doubt Mitchell will come to us unless as a completely free trade; and you're putting a great deal of faith in a zero-gamer to start at centre back before Murphy. Don't think Kreugs will make our best 22 either (except maybe as a sub). Otherwise a pretty good list, I'd say.

Murphy is definitely part of the back 7. Who starts depends on match ups, I guess.

Take your point about Cox. I'd prefer the ruck combo to be Cameron + McStay/Kreuger, and being able to maintain at least two of Kreuger, Mihocek and McStay forward at all times. Feels like they didn't trust Cox to play that role this year.

 

[TradeDraft]

McStay biggest Help be for the Rest of the Forwards as they get a Easier Opposite Player

 

[ThePhantom777]

If we get a first round pick for Grundy by paying more $ I reckon we're batching it up with ours for Parish.

 

[TradeDraft]

I did not relise on here we have so many Experts of Trade/FA Period

 

[AmericanMustard]

It just makes him look mercenary.

As he should tbf, he doesn’t strike me as someone who’s walking straight into a high paying post football career. I’d be advising him to make as much as he can now as well if I was his manager

 

[Everybody Panic]

What would be the advantage of that? Seems to me that you'd still get the trading down when a bid came a few spots before a pick. Then you'd also have ridiculous amounts of in draft trading, as you don't know. B4 the draft which pick the kid will go. You'd also get bigger bargains.

I don't see how you would get bigger bargains. The problem of the current system is that The bulldogs (twice) and Pies have benefited from getting the best rated young players with handful of low picks. Nick Daicos for 38/40/42/44 is a joke. As was Collingwood trading out (even though it backfired) their first pick to avoid losing it for Daicos. Brisbane will get the clear pick 1 for a bunch of bargain picks.

 

[LuckyLee]

Unless DeGoey is a surprise departure, I think this trade period is all about balance sheet repair and value buys of fringe players to lessen list weaknesses but nothing transformational.

I think we’re saving our ammo to be much bigger players in the 2023 trade period, with our salary cap mess finally put right and lots of picks to deploy.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Everybody Panic]

Just because you take advantage of another in a transaction and they agree to it doesn’t make it fair.
Sign bloated contract using Adelaide as leverage then perform well below knowing it’s all locked in means your performance is always going to be scrutinised against the size of the contract.
Noticeably now after using the go home factor in his favour he has no interest in going home.
If you do a deal (sell car with known mechanical issues) and take advantage of another party,
you know.
He knows he’s not worth the $$$$ yet its his money, am I right?
Says a lot about his integrity and his ME attitude when other well compensated individuals from other clubs are happy to sacrifice some personal gain for team succes.

Name them. It's funny how when player's perform well above their contract size theres no moral obligation for the club to give them a huge pay increase straight away.

 

[zhoung]

Collingwood could have bargained better, but thats not Grundy's fault. Its Collingwoods.

Not his fault for bending the club over and being greedy, OH REALLY…
You lay blame on the club for being ripped off, they didn’t want to do 7 years let alone at that money.
Salary cap dictates for every extra dollar he gets someone gets less, or cut, or unavailable to take as a free agent to further team success.
Footy is not an individual sport, but he treats it that way.

 

[JLC]

It's interesting that people are concerned about Kreugers injury struggles but are happy to assume that Dean will be fit to play and good enough to walk into a team that lost a Prelim by 1 point. Jury for mine is out on Dean.

Witts was traded to the Suns for Picks 44 and 62. IMO Witts was more advanced and had more runs on the board than Hayes. So would be surprised if we offered a pick in the 40's.

 

[windchimes]

Our top-end mid has gone from Bucks to Swan to Pendles to ... De Goey? What a drop-off in talent and professionalism. Swan at least learned from his mistakes whereas De Goey is looking like being a repeat offender for life. What's he doing in Vegas when he hasn't signed his contract yet?l

Nick Daicos and Jordy is really not that bad for our next top end mid talents. Surely you know that? Very good problem to have that’ll be.

 

[LuckyLee]

I never said they were. 2 late seconds won't get you Bowes + 7 either though.

You’re misunderstanding it. GC are literally giving away pick 7 as a sweetener to any club who takes Bowes off their hands and is willing to fully honour the remaining 2 years of his back-ended contract, at $800K pa.

So, if you’re willing to spend $800K pa of your salary cap for the next 2 years, you can have Bowes and pick 7 without having to send anything back the other way.

It’s very tempting, especially if we lose DeGoey.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[jonbe54]

Unless DeGoey is a surprise departure, I think this trade period is all about balance sheet repair and value buys of fringe players to lessen list weaknesses but nothing transformational.

I think we’re saving our ammo to be much bigger players in the 2023 trade period, with our salary cap mess finally put right and lots of picks to deploy.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

I'm inclined to agree - we simply aren't in the position to land a big fish.

 

[zhoung]

Name them. It's funny how when player's perform well above their contract size theres no moral obligation for the club to give them a huge pay increase straight away.

I’m not privy to what players earn what but one team playing tomorrow is known to have a number of players that are taking unders in the pursuit of team glory.
FWIW I support the CFC not the BGFC.

 

[WakeUpPies]

Nick Daicos and Jordy is really not that bad for our next top end mid talents. Surely you know that? Very good problem to have that’ll be.

Naicos is fine. But De Goey? We've gone from professionals like Buckley and Pendles to someone who can't have a night out without stirring up trouble. His on-field production has not justified his asking price and behaviour.

 

[sr36]

I don't see how you would get bigger bargains. The problem of the current system is that The bulldogs (twice) and Pies have benefited from getting the best rated young players with handful of low picks. Nick Daicos for 38/40/42/44 is a joke. As was Collingwood trading out (even though it backfired) their first pick to avoid losing it for Daicos. Brisbane will get the clear pick 1 for a bunch of bargain picks.

That just means that the point system needs to be adjusted, not that you need to get rid of the points system. The reason why I think you'd get bigger bargains is that the lucky team with a highly rated kid generally trades out more than just the equivalent of a 10 pick later pick in order to get their kid.