List Mgmt. COLLINGWOOD Trade and F/A Discussion 2022-->

[Anzacday]

Key dates attached so we know what’s going on when.

• Friday 30 September at 9.00am

• AFL Restricted Free Agency and Unrestricted Free Agency Period commences

Monday 03 October at 9.00am

• AFL Trade Period commences – Players & Selections

Friday 07 October at 5.00pm

• Close of AFL Restricted Free Agency Offer and Unrestricted Free Agency Period.

Monday 10 October

• AFL Draft Nominations open (9am)
• AFL Restricted Free Agency Matching Offer 3 Day Period Ends (5pm)

Wednesday 12 October at 7.30pm

• AFL Trade Period closes – players and selections

Thursday 03 November at 9.00am

• AFL Delisted Player Free Agency Period (1) commences

Wednesday 09 November at 5.00pm

• AFL Delisted Player Free Agency Period (1) closes

Friday 11 November at 9.00am

• AFL Delisted Player Free Agency Period (2) commences

Tuesday 15 November by 5.00pm

• AFL Delisted Player Free Agency Period (2) closes
• AFL Trade Period closes – selections only

Monday 21 November by 3.00pm

• AFL Draft Nominations close

Monday 28 November at 7.10pm

• 2022 AFL Draft Round One (Venue TBC)
• Father/Son, Academy & NGA and Players Bidding opens.

Tuesday 29 November

• AFL Trade Period – selections only (5.45pm to 6.30pm)
• 2022 AFL National Draft Round two until completion (7pm)
• Rookie Upgrade Period opens (10pm)
• AFL Delisted Player Free Agency Period (3) commences (10pm)
• Rookie Upgrade Period closes (11pm)
• AFL Delisted Player Free Agency Period (3) closes (11pm)

Wednesday 30 November

• AFL Pre-Season Draft (3pm, online)
• AFL Rookie Draft (3.20pm, online)

Thursday 01 December by 4.00pm

• Final AFL Club List Lodgement

 

[MyManLynch]

You know the answer and so does your therapist

I’m posting from an Ashram in Gujarat…actually surprised they have wifi….

 

[jatsad]

All this talk about sending Henry to the draft is not going to happen. If they don’t come to a deal which I’m sure they will cause the pies will buckle and are weak as piss at trading Henry will sign a 1 year deal at the pies and we go through all this again next year

I'm glad you're in the know. Nice to have an inside ear.

 

[Scodog10]

I’m thinking more along the lines of the Grundy, Treloar et al tying up salary cap space and limiting the scope for players.

He’s made the choice on Grundy and Treloar’s either ends this year or next. The salary cap is going to explode over the next 7 years and these deals will become a drop in the ocean. IMO, the real game is now in output v cost and it’s why clubs move salaries these days. Think of it like NFL clubs maximising a QB’s rookie contract. The last thing you want is an average guy on massive $’s.

In 2022 Geelong paid $600k to 2 AA’s in Hawkins and Stengle and their CHB, De Koning, probably in a similar range. We had Daicos and Lipinski on low $’s with high impact. Next year I’m looking to Hill and Frampton who are both likely to be best 22 on lowish amounts with Frampton in particular hopefully filling a key role. McStay on the other hand will need to kick 50+ to fit in that category.

In the case of Grundy you just can’t carry a $1m player with $600k output. It’s a hard lesson for club and player, but one I hope we’re learning.

 

[sr36]

We also cleared Treloar's salary and Ned Guy was universally panned. If GW gets basically the same result with Grundy (who's a better player than Treloar) and Henry (who we're not trying to push out unlike Stephenson), you don't think we should be angry like we were with Ned Guy? Or should we revise how we think about Ned Guy's trade period horrendous trade period?

It's possible to look back at your anger and realise that it was unjustified. In reflection, Guy's moves in that trade period were good ones. The prior stuffing up of the cap and the live trades we did in the draft - not so much.

 

[jatsad]

Whilst I agree the deal is shite, I feel obliged to point out that whether pick 25 falls back to pick 27 or thereabouts is irrelevant, as the same pool of players will be available to choose from. The pick only moves as a result of academy and F/S bids, which are players we wouldn't have had rights to anyway

Absolutely correct. It irks me when people say a pick will slide e.g 25 to 27 so it's worth less. It will only matter if points are an issue.
Same players are still available.

 

[Prexm]

Both Fiorini and Mitchell possible?

Be easy if we want them both. Have created the list spots , should be cheap trades and with the money we save on Grundy will be not much more to pay for both regarding salary cap.

 

[NMBB]

Wonder what would happen if the top 18 experts here on all matters list management became the list managers for 3 days next week and the 18 list managers became most prolific posters on BF?

 

[sr36]

In 2022 Geelong paid $600k to 2 AA’s in Hawkins and Stengle and their CHB, De Koning, probably in a similar range. We had Daicos and Lipinski on low $’s with high impact. Next year I’m looking to Hill and Frampton who are both likely to be best 22 on lowish amounts with Frampton in particular hopefully filling a key role. McStay on the other hand will need to kick 50+ to fit in that category.

Hawkins is just incredible value. Even if he was a 20 goal forward he'd be worth a packet. His forward line ruckwork is so damaging and needs a lot of work put in to it, which also allows their ruckman to sit back and make their press so much harder to penetrate.

 

[Scodog10]

can you clarify what you mean by this?
Are you talking about bringing in a gun KPF eg Ben King?
Or invest by drafting and developing KPFs? The latter hasn't really worked so far. For some reason our track record in developing KPFs has been poor (Will Kelly, McMahon)
It's hard to believe that our most consistent key forwards since Cloke left have been an American rookie and a converted defender recruited from Port Melb. And Checkers was thrown forward more out of desperation than planning

Both draft and trade. IMO, we’ve piss farted around at the draft and never properly invested so I wouldn’t mention the likes of McMahon and Kelly in that context. I’m talking more trading into the top 10 and drafting a King, Naughton, McDonald etc. easier said than done because I reckon the club has been gun shy on the big investment in a dud.

For trade it’s a lot more straight forward instead of investing $600k pa hold the line and throw $900k at JUH/ Naughton/ King. The trade always looks after itself.

 

[SchuPie]

Bruhn has been very very average

I hope for the kid’s sake he makes it
I hope for Geelong’s sake he doesn’t

 

[Jafo]

I hope for the kid’s sake he makes it
I hope for Geelong’s sake he doesn’t

Something like a Geelong Best & Fairest, AA selection in a Wooden Spoon year?

 

[Carlthetruth]

Clarkson supposedly had a big say in trading in players from other clubs to keep Hawthorn in the "window", so Wright would have been constrained to a certain extent.
Pelchen did a great job at Hawthorn, but wasn't so successful at St Kilda.

Pelchen never did a great job, it was the people underneath him, as soon as the club realised that they moved him on and at the Aints you got the real Pelchen.

 

[jmac70]

Wonder what would happen if the top 18 experts here on all matters list management became the list managers for 3 days next week and the 18 list managers became most prolific posters on BF?

BF would improve, Collingwood not so much.

 

[What is a cakewalk]

The Age report will be spot on.

Gleeson, Niall and to a lesser extent Ryan (all Collingwood men) seem to be our go to when we want to leak stuff from inside Collingwood.

They've reported we are requesting a first round pick.

Yep. These are the 3 guys you can trust when reporting on us. Much as it hate to saynit tom brownes mail is usually good too (i wonder why)

 

[jatsad]

Alternatively has he done anything particularly noteworthy or pulled any surprises? I wouldn't say I am underwhelmed, though I probably am, but compared to Geelong and some other teams, we are hardly the best operators to date in this trade period. One poster described Wright as a genius. I am yet to see him do something to justify that assessment.

So you don't think last year's effort where we had a zero draft position, but he managed to manouevre so well, that not only did we get plenty of points for Daicos, but we also had some late picks. From memery, our first pick was 36. Fair effort I would say. And what has he done wrong this year.

In Hill, McStay
Still have Henry
Getting Grundy off our books which stifles so much with that dumb contract. We may lose a very good player, but is ageing, injury prone now, and we didn't really miss him when he was out.

I think he's doing OK.

 

[Hvashera2]

The truth is probably somewhere in the middle. His history shows he's neither a genius or a patsy but we also don't know what parameters he was working in. Those who have made bold declarations either way about Wright in the middle of the trade are the fools.

you're right. And TBH the whole messiah-complex with the likes of Hine, Wright, Stephen Wells etc is laughable.
For every Dane Swan there's a Jay Rantall or McLarty
For every Joel Selwood there's a Nakia Cockatoo-Collins
Even critics of Dodoro forget that he's selected Perkins and Nik Cox and Peter Wright
Swings and roundabouts.

 

[NMBB]

Yep. These are the 3 guys you can trust when reporting on us. Much as it hate to saynit tom brownes mail is usually good too (i wonder why)

Funny that

 

[3rdMan]

Absolutely correct. It irks me when people say a pick will slide e.g 25 to 27 so it's worth less. It will only matter if points are an issue.
Same players are still available.

The way I see it: the pick is worth less if it shuffles back from 25 to 28.

The value of a draft pick is which "top x" player in the country you have access to. F/S and academy players impact that. A pick 25 in a year without F/S or academy players is clearly better than one which slides back to 28.

We never had access to the academy or F/S players, but that doesn't change the fact that you're getting the 28th player in the draft, not the 25th. It's still a consideration. It may be a minor one or it may not, we have to evaluate it and determine that.

Exaggerating the point to make it clearer: what if there were 50 players tied to other clubs in the top 5? Would we be happy to take pick 6 for a good player? No. Because we only get the 51st best player in the draft. We never had access to the other 50, but there aren't unlimited quality players in a draft.

 

[12kilos]

Still have a conspiracy theory in regards to the Foxtel trade coverage on Wednesday between 530 and 730 last 2 hours i think?
How many people will actually tune in if all the major deals are done?
Will the AFL tell clubs be told by the powers too be to hold back.
Or all the deals are done paperwork wise but not mentioned officially until that time slot?

 

[jmac70]

Still have a conspiracy theory in regards to the Foxtel trade coverage on Wednesday between 530 and 730 last 2 hours i think?
How many people will actually tune in if all the major deals are done?
Will the AFL tell clubs be told by the powers too be to hold back.
Or all the deals are done paperwork wise but not mentioned officially until that time slot?

No doubt about that.

 

[Gaben]

Get Cooper Stephens in the Henry deal, kid is going to be bloody good. Great in traffic and tackles like a maniac. He’d leap frog Carmichael quick smart.

 

[NMBB]

Still have a conspiracy theory in regards to the Foxtel trade coverage on Wednesday between 530 and 730 last 2 hours i think?
How many people will actually tune in if all the major deals are done?
Will the AFL tell clubs be told by the powers too be to hold back.
Or all the deals are done paperwork wise but not mentioned officially until that time slot?

Pretty ordinary if that's how they operate - but wouldn't be surprised

 

[jatsad]

With all the hype about how well the cats have done, if they get Henry, they will have recruited 3 guys who were NOT regular senior players.
And their draft position is now shot, especially if their future first comes our way for Henry.

Huge risk in my book.

 

[FAIRANDBALANCED]

Feel like there is 0 objectivity here. Wrights been at the club a short period and is dealing with a list hangover.

Continued posts about other clubs and what they are doing:

Rich: Taranto and hopper. Taranto: Two first rounds (19 is basically a first) and 7 year 750k deal, Big investment. Hopper who knows..
Bris: Gunston is injury prone, and old. Pass for me. Dunkley? Two firsts is the price.
Geel: paying a fortune for a player playing vfl atm. That’s a huge risk. Huge. Bruhn? Is he any good? Given up their first. Henry? Likely to be a first or no deal.

Point is, none of these deals are free. They are investing significant cap, and none of these clubs will have any access to the draft.

We’ve added and are add depth in positions of need for nothing. Which will then leave us still with picks in the draft. Any melts therefore needs to be saved at minimum until after the draft, as our trading includes the draft. The clubs listed won’t be active.

With picks 16, 25 and 27? I mean they are terribly middling picks. We have already struck out big time 2 years ago. We had 5 picks inside 30- Poulter, McInness, Henry, Macrae and McMahon. That's the talent level you get in those picks. Getting lots of picks around those numbers is not good business.

 

[3rdMan]

The "overpaid" claims on Bobby Hill are overwrought.

He was a best 22 player for the Giants for two years.

Bombers, they of the "take no crap" Dodoro, offered a future 2nd last year and were knocked back.

Trade discussions on each board are a lot like umpiring discussions. Almost every club is getting screwed and almost every club has a list manager who's not doing enough.