List Mgmt. COLLINGWOOD Trade and F/A Discussion 2023

[Scodog10]

Fair enough. I haven’t seen many keen to push him out of the club. There is a lot of hyperbole about Ginni though along the lines of “we have to find a spot for Ginni” or “Ginni has the talent, so if he trains hard he’ll get his shot”.

I don’t think we need to find a spot for Ginni, I think he needs to earn one, and it will probably come through covering for an injured player, playing well and making himself undroppable.

I also don’t think he’s so talented for midfield that he can merely train as hard as everyone else already was, and things will all fall his way. He’s up against it to be able to change positions and beat out guys who were drafted and developed with midfield in mind, and in Macrae’s case who stuck around at the club because of the prospect of midfield time becoming available.

If John Noble decided he wanted to train with the forward group and develop his forward craft, we wouldn’t all be sitting here saying “we need to find a spot for JFN” or “he has the talent, if he keeps training hard he’ll make it”. AFL is cut-throat, many are called but few are chosen.

The most sensible and reasoned explanation of Ginnivan’s current status I’ve read on here by a mile!

I’ve seen the push to move him on and I’m not on board, but I tell you there’s a part of me that would not complain if it came to be. I’ve had it up to my back teeth with the adoration and hyperbole heaped on a bloke that’s ostensibly outside our best 23 and has been so so across the clubs last 30 matches (he’s played 20 and kicked 22 goals in that time). Couple that with his decision making off field, hunt for free kicks and I can understand why there’s a push from some for him to be moved on.

The fallback is the oft trotted out 40 goals in his 2nd season line well news flash another Jack from 15 seasons ago kicked 63 goals at 20-21yo between games 7 and 36. He found himself out of the system by age 24. The game catches up with you real quick if you aren’t doing everything you can to maximise your talents off field and bar a short stretch mid way through 2023 that’s Ginnivan…

 

[Scodog10]

Probably the worst description of Schultz that I've seen so give yourself a pat on the back, we're interested in a cartoon character!

I did it I drew out the man the myth the legend Carl!! I’d like to thank you from the heart of my bottom for your well reasoned opinion that added such depth to the discussion on Schultz’s pace.

 

[Sweeetleftfoot]

I gad a query on Schultz’s pace but I see he ran in afl gf sprint for freo so must have some wheels. Is he Bobby Hill fast? Or just Rambeau fast?

Lipinski quick

 

[Sweeetleftfoot]

Would radugolea be one to try and pry

I’d give up a pick to keep him away.

 

[unplugged]

I’d give up a pick to keep him away.

He could retire and become a Vuly ambassador. Trampoline hands himself.

 

[danielnajdek]

Mackie really is a POS. We need to persuade a Geelong player to us then offer a 4th round pick and not budge.

 

[Sweeetleftfoot]

Yeah maybe offer him the remaining money over 2 years plus a games trigger for a 3rd year on reduced money

Certainly need more depth down back… especially now with Murphy’s future clouded

I’m what world is an afl player gonna agree to play for free essentially for a year. He is guaranteed. 1.2 or whatever it is next year no chance in hell he would say let’s make it 600 k and I’ll play for 2 years.

 

[Harry O]

So Freo offer Brockman a 4 year deal but have been offering Shultz 1 year deals
They must really value him

 

[Jen2310]

So Freo offer Brockman a 4 year deal but have been offering Shultz 1 year deals
They must really value him

Think that was more so they would have a forward to replace a forward, and to pry him out of eagles hands, they'd have to stump up..
But seems he is intent on going to the eagles.

 

[VinnieB]

Would radugolea be one to try and pry

Then we will be starting every game -24

 

[VinnieB]

I gad a query on Schultz’s pace but I see he ran in afl gf sprint for freo so must have some wheels. Is he Bobby Hill fast? Or just Rambeau fast?

Ned Moyle ran in the AFL sprint.

 

[mocamagic]

I do remember Max Holmes winning the sprint.

Some of those blokes weren't even trying

 

[left at home]

Pete Ryan from the age also just told me no club is making any move for ginni.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

That will upset a couple of people on here

 

[JOELY]

We may be looking for a ruck still. Begg remains unsigned which is odd.

This reminds me, GW was on trade radio Monday and they asked him about the Goldstein interest. Went on to talk about his value working with our young ruckman Oscar Steene but didn't mention Begg at all. Immediately stood out to me and whether intentional or not I found it interesting.

 

[Scodog10]

So Freo offer Brockman a 4 year deal but have been offering Shultz 1 year deals
They must really value him

I get the whole contract angle one, but I feel like there’s a bit of Schultz’s truth, Fremantle’s truth and the real truth to it. By that I mean if Fremantle knew he was always a flight risk they were never going to be able to sign him long term so they possibly did the best they could by signing him to rolling 1 year deals for as long as possible.

For instance I’d be shitty if Henry signed a couple of 1 year deals for 2023 and 2024 then requested a trade to Geelong only for Geelong nuffies to then say “herp derp you should have signed him long term”…

 

[Gone Critical]

Haven’t done a 2k in a while, I’m afraid.

5km is 20:49 and 10km is 43:19. I think Ginni likely has me covered there. But they both were set this year and I’m not done yet!

sideswipe will be all over this post shortly

 

[sideswipe]

sideswipe will be all over this post shortly

I am only ever an encourager. And have already encouraged.

 

[Dundalis]

Unless Ginnivan is going to get us a first round pick, trading him for a second round pick will be useless to us. No one currently values a second round pick in compromised drafts.

We're in a flag window and Ginnivan is ready to step up when needed. A second round pick will just be idling in the VFL not ready for another 2 years. That or they'll get delisted after their draft contract from lack of opportunity.

That's a bit presumptuous. Also I've not clarified what would classify as a desirous pick. Bottom line is the club would have an idea about value in terms of draft position, this year or next, and would internally have clarity around value, which if met I think we could make the trade without much hesitation. Also how long do you think our flag window is? How important is Ginnivan to it, vs potentially helping extend the window with talent that might help in other areas? Is a pure forward with goal sense but not much else a particularly critical need?

This is an interesting point regarding to rotations and use around the ground. I agree that the benefit of having Adams/Lipinski is what they bring with the ability to go through the middle (and as a result allowing us to shuffle other pieces around). Imo if we look at it as Adams+Lippa being replaced by Beau+Schultz as the FWD/Mid rotaters, we certainly improve the FWD element of it but you're right that at this stage Adams+Lippa give me more confidence in impacting as midfielders.

I do think we'll see different approach this year, if we go on the assumption that our "main midfield group" is JDG, Titch, NDaicos and JDaicos/Sidey as wings, we can then rotate Crisp and Pendlebury of HBF with MccReery and Schultz from the forward mix. Additionally we would look at having a Fin/Ed coming into the side as pure midfielders with either one or both of them coming on the way many hope/expect they will. Lipinski will of course still be around and in the mix as part of the midfield group like he was in 2022 (more than the FWD group), and I also wonder if we'd see an IQ or Noble look to spend more time around the ball given our smaller options down back.

Well first of all, Beau isn't really a replacement for anything, he's already been in the team. I would also disagree that he necessarily is a particularly big boost in terms of forward play over Adams or Lipinski, or necessarily Ginni either. Both Beau and Ginni were above those two in goals per game, but Adams and Lipinski were well ahead in score involvements. Adams was third in score involvements out of everyone on the whole list. Lot's of elements to scoring opportunities apart from just conversion. We are really just talking Schultz in, Adams out. Schultz was pretty good in that aspect on Freo's end (much better numbers than Beau or Ginnivan), which is a very good sign, although game style can inflate or deflate certain stats in an unpredictable manor.

Would agree with your assessment if not for the fact that I think Ginni has shown he can grow into an Adams type role for us. Lipinksi often sits just outside a contest and takes up very aggressive positioning gambling on us winning it, so obviously Ginni wouldn't be suited to replicating that.

But if you watch his appearances towards the end of 2023 you can see that he has extremely quick hands, and aside from playing for high frees more than we'd like, is a strong 20yo ground ball player, who finds the drop of the ball better than most. Here his lack of burst wouldn't be exposed, really he'd just need to work on endurance and strength though his low center of gravity for a deceptively tall player helps here.

I think it's a bad idea to look at traits and hedge bets that they convert to playing a completely foreign position. I saw Ginnivan play midfield in the VFL, and IMO he looked lost. Now that doesn't mean he can't improve and be solid in that position, but there's a very big difference between a player who can improve in a foreign position, and someone who is natural and experienced playing a position. The drop off is in quality is huge and very noticable, and we are in a Premiership window, not an experimental window. I think you can afford to lose a player who has shown no real evidence of being a true multi positional player after 3 years in the system (in an positional area that would now be pretty strong if you pick up someone like Schultz) if you get a decent return for them.

 

[anshell]

Why are people talking about Mackie and Geelong?Are we interested in one of their players?

 

[danielnajdek]

Why are people talking about Mackie and Geelong?Are we interested in one of their players?

Nope. Mackie just being a knob when it comes to trades.

 

[nahnah]

why did the Holmes rumours die, I want him

 

[gouki88]

Why are people talking about Mackie and Geelong?Are we interested in one of their players?

Because he has been outrageous, more than anything

 

[gouki88]

why did the Holmes rumours die, I want him

He'll come next offseason for the 3 peat

 

[MooreDaicos]

EDIT: This has now been confirmed as a joke

 

[Horaceg]

why did the Holmes rumours die, I want him

It is Wrighty, a good thing if we hear nothing, he tends to operate in the shadows