List Mgmt. COLLINGWOOD Trade and F/A Discussion

[Dead Eye Didak]

I think he's assuming Sydney offer him $1m? I doubt it, personally.

I doubt Sydney could even afford to pay $1M to anyone at the moment. Franklin looks like he is going to play on, on top of the last few years of his current 10 year deal, are apparently the largest annual amounts of the contract. Unless COLA makes a sudden reappearance, Sydney aren't offering $1M a year to Moore.....

 

[FIGJAM]

Fly made the point we need more pressure/tackling inside 50.
Is Hill a guy that can do that given his size at 174cm and lack of bulk -66kgs?.
I doubt it, and therefore pick 27, is way over the odds for Hill IMO.

He's outside, low possession, low goals, low pressure.

Big pass for mine!

 

[MagpieJoel]

I doubt Sydney could even afford to pay $1M to anyone at the moment. Franklin looks like he is going to play on, on top of the last few years of his current 10 year deal are apparently the largest annual amounts of the contract. Unless COLA makes a sudden reappearance, Sydney aren't offering $1M a year to Moore.....

Sydney are stuffed if the rumours are true that his salary was to increase later in the contract. All based on an assumption that the cap would grow.

Long term contracts are dangerous.

 

[Scodog10]

Am I the only one who think Bobby Hill is one of the more over rated players in the AFL? I realise I probably am, but more than happy to give that one a miss

On here he is! I like him for us because I think he’s a complimentary player to our mix, but some of the discussion is OTT.

 

[Crazy Tails]

Unless GW thinks otherwise of course.

Of course; just can't see it happening tbh. GW was brought on board to fix the mess created by previous years. Trading a future first for a small crumbing forward would just be repeating past mistakes. I'd prefer to renew our interest in freebies like Stengle or Naish. Next year we can be serious players again; this year is about making sure we are in a position to do that.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Yep, no chance in hell North risk picking Daicos when Horne is available, people need to relax.

There is the risk that Hine clicks the wrong button…… and north miss out on Horne and get Daicos by mistake.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

I don't think it's "clear" that Daicos is the number 1. There's no consensus at all actually.

It’s clear that there’s no consensus

 

[WinstonWolfe]

I know people who know our cap position who wouldn’t agree with that.

Last years very late damaging calls came after the Covid cap changes came about. I don’t think any club would have voluntarily taken those measures. Even waiting 12 months to allow time for a proper negotiation and to be able to properly test the market would have been a much wiser course of action

If we could have done that why wouldn’t have we?

I don't understand why COVID only affected us? Surely other clubs had budgeted to use up their pre-COVID cap.

Was it that players from other clubs agreed to take a haircut and ours didn't?

 

[jonbe54]

Of course; just can't see it happening tbh. GW was brought on board to fix the mess created by previous years. Trading a future first for a small crumbing forward would just be repeating past mistakes. I'd prefer to renew our interest in freebies like Stengle or Naish. Next year we can be serious players again; this year is about making sure we are in a position to do that.

Hopefully the intention is to stop the bleeding before venturing into speculative trading again.

 

[jonbe54]

I don't understand why COVID only affected us? Surely other clubs had budgeted to use up their pre-COVID cap.

Was it that players from other clubs agreed to take a haircut and ours didn't?

Look at GWS and Hawthorn for instance we were just the first.

 

[gouki88]

I don't understand why COVID only affected us? Surely other clubs had budgeted to use up their pre-COVID cap.

Was it that players from other clubs agreed to take a haircut and ours didn't?

I think we were the most serial offender of backending contracts, alongside our significant amount of bloated deals. But we're seeing the impacts of COVID cap hits on teams like Sydney and GC this year

 

[JuniorB]

I don't understand why COVID only affected us? Surely other clubs had budgeted to use up their pre-COVID cap.

Was it that players from other clubs agreed to take a haircut and ours didn't?

I think it was a combination of poor list management & that the shit hit our fan before other clubs'. I suspect other clubs are now having the same issues, GC being an example.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

I think we were the most serial offender of backending contracts, alongside our significant amount of bloated deals. But we're seeing the impacts of COVID cap hits on teams like Sydney and GC this year

We were worse than everyone else because of Beams. But apart from that it was probably a matter of timing…. Having had success in 2018 we rewarded good players from that season with contracts they subsequently couldn’t live up to. Making the GF just a year before COVID hit the cap was unlucky timing.

 

[pablo disco bar]

Who cares who is better Horne or daicos

Obviously both talented kids

North get one we get the other

Pointless debate

 

[jmac70]

Who cares who is better Horne or daicos

Obviously both talented kids

North get one we get the other

Pointless debate

I guess we are just hoping North don’t bid, and hopefully GWS then bid on Darcy.

 

[jimmy35]

Of course; just can't see it happening tbh. GW was brought on board to fix the mess created by previous years. Trading a future first for a small crumbing forward would just be repeating past mistakes. I'd prefer to renew our interest in freebies like Stengle or Naish. Next year we can be serious players again; this year is about making sure we are in a position to do that.

I can’t either and I’m sure they won’t trade a first for him, not even a second IMO but I’m comfortable in the decisions the club* is making now.
*Wrighty and Fly.

 

[3rdMan]

I really don't buy all this talk of "mismanaged" salary cap. We managed it in a normal way for a contending team.

When contending, you can handle heavily backended contracts and a bursting cap. It's expected. It will hurt later, but you're in it for the now.

When the cap was reduced and it was clear we were no longer contending, moving players out to move forward the rebuild became the tough but clear option. We could have continued without salary dumps but it would have delayed a rebuild, so biting the bullet now was the smart move.

The only real mistake in all of this was bringing Beams back. Never wanted him. Even there though, if he played to the level of his last year in Brisbane it made some sense - my view would be he was still the wrong type and we could have found a better option.

 

[jatsad]

Smart move. Helps him negotiate down the new contracts and create room for future recruiting

Correct. Also removes the threat of another bending over.

 

[JuniorB]

I really don't buy all this talk of "mismanaged" salary cap. We managed it in a normal way for a contending team.

When contending, you can handle heavily backended contracts and a bursting cap. It's expected. It will hurt later, but you're in it for the now.

When the cap was reduced and it was clear we were no longer contending, moving players out to move forward the rebuild became the tough but clear option. We could have continued without salary dumps but it would have delayed a rebuild, so biting the bullet now was the smart move.

The only real mistake in all of this was bringing Beams back. Never wanted him. Even there though, if he played to the level of his last year in Brisbane it made some sense - my view would be he was still the wrong type and we could have found a better option.

Beams wanted to come back and Eddie was happy to oblige. Hopefully, we now have a football department that won't brook any interference in footy matters from the board or president.

 

[jimmy35]

Beams wanted to come back and Eddie was happy to oblige. Hopefully, we now have a football department that won't brook any interference in footy matters from the board or president.

Yep too much sentiment involved in that Beams trade.

 

[jatsad]

I am glad we didnt finish last as I would vomit knowing Horne could have been ours along with Daicos. It is quite a good 1-2. And both clubs sort of lucky they dont have too make a choice. Will be interesting to see how they go.

If we had finished last, we would draft Horne at 1 and then wait for the Daicos bid.
Both players in.

 

[manicpie]

I don't think it's "clear" that Daicos is the number 1. There's no consensus at all actually.

He is a clear number 1, recruiters don't pick players based on "ATM", which is what people are saying about Horne. It's about past, present and future and Daicos is clearly ahead of him in that regard. The only reason Daicos isn't talked about as much as JHF is because he hasn't played as much. I don't want Daicos to be picked at one but people should be prepared because I think it will happen

 

[76woodenspooners]

I really don't buy all this talk of "mismanaged" salary cap. We managed it in a normal way for a contending team.

When contending, you can handle heavily backended contracts and a bursting cap. It's expected. It will hurt later, but you're in it for the now.

When the cap was reduced and it was clear we were no longer contending, moving players out to move forward the rebuild became the tough but clear option. We could have continued without salary dumps but it would have delayed a rebuild, so biting the bullet now was the smart move.

Seems reasonable. It’s been explained a kazillion times. And yet it remains contentious. I don‘t get it?

The only real mistake in all of this was bringing Beams back. Never wanted him. Even there though, if he played to the level of his last year in Brisbane it made some sense - my view would be he was still the wrong type and we could have found a better option.

+ Should have done better due diligence around Beams. The decision getting him back wasn’t unreasonable, but maybe if we had a better understanding of where he was at we wouldn’t have offered him a four year contract, nor be willing to pay what we did with picks. And if we’d still ended up with him, we could have probably surrounded him with better support systems.

+ Organising Treloar to be traded to GCS behind the player’s back. You need to take the player along on the journey. If we hadn’t attempted that it might not have come out that we were under salary cap pressure.

+ Dragging Treloar’s partner into it. That was very bad form.

+ Poor public messaging in the Treloar and Stephenson trades.

+ Not funnelling our trade PR through a single person. Having Walsh, Buckley, Guy, and Ed speak to the media only created the opportunity for mixed messages.

 

[Stifler's mom]

Ginnivan & McCreery both showed a bit this year & will get better, especially with another tall to crumb around. Ollie Henry will be good too, so our forward line doesn't look too bad. Better delivery will help too.

I hope that I’m proven wrong, but I cannot see McCreery making it.
Ginnivan maybe, but not Beau.

 

[neilk]

If we had finished last, we would draft Horne at 1 and then wait for the Daicos bid.
Both players in.

Except that GWS would have the #1 pick.